My 2012 27-inch iMac has image retention

[crows]

Originally Posted by NikkiNikk

I have a late 2012 27" (i5/8GB/GTX680MX/1TBFD) and not one single sign of this image retention thing.

I tested everything to check the image ghosting, but nothing happend.
The display is in the bottom a little bit more yellow and it was terrible calibrated, but after a manual calibration, everything is really well.

So, there are displays without this image retention!
Good luck

Wait a second are your saying your display had the yellow tint issue towards the bottom and it went away with a calibration? I just don't see how that is possible...

[WilliamG]

Originally Posted by crows

Wait a second are your saying your display had the yellow tint issue towards the bottom and it went away with a calibration? I just don't see how that is possible...

That's exactly what I have said, too. You can't eliminate 100% of the yellow, but it's mostly gone with a calibration. These screens are awfully calibrated out of the box.

[Swiddle]

As mentioned before, the replacement iMac I got has much less IR than the previous one. The blue IR doesn't show up from the black and white grid test pattern. In case anyone was wondering, this is the color image I used:

Color Test Pattern

And this is a color test pattern grid that I just slapped together, that I will try tomorrow:

Color Grid Pattern

I beleive pure blue and pure magenta leave behind the strongest blue IR. I'm going to open a support case with Apple regarding the blue IR in the replacement iMac, but am not going to request a repair or replacement. I just want a record of the problem in case it gets worse over time.

Previously posted:
Video of MAJOR IR in Original iMac
Video of MINOR IR in Replacement iMac
Photo of IR of Checkerboard Pattern on Original iMac
Photo of Color Test Image
Photo of IR of Color Test Image on Original iMac

(Zoom 1)(Zoom 2)

[torana355]

I just want to let people know ALL IPS panels will exhibit some sort or IR. I can leave that grid on for over 20 mins and get no IR but if i go on you tube for a few hours and keep the same screen up my 2012 will get IR. I would only take it back if you are getting IR in a very short period, less then 10 mins.

[WilliamG]

Originally Posted by torana355

I just want to let people know ALL IPS panels will exhibit some sort or IR. I can leave that grid on for over 20 mins and get no IR but if i go on you tube for a few hours and keep the same screen up my 2012 will get IR. I would only take it back if you are getting IR in a very short period, less then 10 mins.

I leave my display on hours and hours at a time. Yesterday I had the same screen up for over 4 hours. I've also done YouTube marathons. No IR. Not all displays have IR. I've owned a 27" iMac since day 1, a 2009 model and now a 2012 for the last month. Never ever a hint of IR.

[torana355]

v

Originally Posted by WilliamG

I leave my display on hours and hours at a time. Yesterday I had the same screen up for over 4 hours. IR.

I call BS. Feel free to prove that you left a static image on for 4 hours with no IR on ANY IPS display. Until then i call BS. When a IPS panel heats up you get IR, it would not be a IPS panel if it didn't. I am in the middle of summer here in Aus and i can get minor IR after having the same screen on for a few hours, this did not happen on cooler days. Feel free to read the bellow white paper, i will quote the important line for you

"However, no LCD display is free from image retention. Fortunately, techniques exist to assist in reducing the risk of image retention in an LCD."

http://www.business-sites.philips.co...hite_paper.pdf

[WilliamG]

Originally Posted by torana355

I call BS. Feel free to prove that you left a static image on for 4 hours with no IR on ANY IPS display. Until then i call BS. When a IPS panel heats up you get IR, it would not be a IPS panel if it didn't. I am in the middle of summer here in Aus and i can get minor IR after having the same screen on for a few hours, this did not happen on cooler days.

Tell me you're kidding. I often have the same Window open for longer than that if I'm working on spreadsheets or using Lightroom. Sure SOME aspects of the screen may change, but the bulk, menu bar etc may not change for even longer. Heck, I played Far Cry 3 for hours and hour straight with the same HUD up for hours. I even had to take a break for about 90 minutes where I left the menus up. No IR.

So I call BS on your BSing me.

I can honestly tell you I've never owned an IPS display with IR. I know they exist, but I don't have one of them.

[torana355]

Originally Posted by WilliamG

Tell me you're kidding. I often have the same Window open for longer than that if I'm working on spreadsheets or using Lightroom. Sure SOME aspects of the screen may change, but the bulk, menu bar etc may not change for even longer. Heck, I played Far Cry 3 for hours and hour straight with the same HUD up for hours. I even had to take a break for about 90 minutes where I left the menus up. No IR.

So I call BS on your BSing me.

I can honestly tell you I've never owned an IPS display with IR. I know they exist, but I don't have one of them.

READ the link to the white paper!!! ALL LCD DISPLAYS HAVE IR!!! The ambient temperature of the room can be a major factor. I speak facts mate, ive had my iMac since launch and have not noticed ONE bit of IR till a few days ago when it was a really hot day and i had the same window up for a few hours. Also note i don't get ANY IR from that 15 min grid test. Anyway ive given you proof so feel free to argue with the whitepaper.

[Lava Lamp Freak]

Originally Posted by torana355

READ the link to the white paper!!! ALL LCD DISPLAYS HAVE IR!!! The ambient temperature of the room can be a major factor. I speak facts mate, ive had my iMac since launch and have not noticed ONE bit of IR till a few days ago when it was a really hot day and i had the same window up for a few hours. Also note i don't get ANY IR from that 15 min grid test. Anyway ive given you proof so feel free to argue with the whitepaper.

It's the middle of winter where I am in the US. I had retention on the Apple Cinema Display that I returned a few weeks ago when the display was freezing cold after being in the trunk of my car a few hours. I tested it with the grid pattern immediately after bringing it inside and turning it on. While heat may be a factor in retention, it isn't required.

My 20" Dell Ultrasharp won't retain the grid pattern at all. The longest I've left the pattern on the screen is one hour. Since having the retention on my iMac last month, I've been checking a grey background on the 20" Dell and I've never seen a hint of retention on it. Perhaps it could have retention in a hot room like you experienced.

[torana355]

Originally Posted by Lava Lamp Freak

It's the middle of winter where I am in the US. I had retention on the Apple Cinema Display that I returned a few weeks ago when the display was freezing cold after being in the trunk of my car a few hours. I tested it with the grid pattern immediately after bringing it inside and turning it on. While heat may be a factor in retention, it isn't required.

My 20" Dell Ultrasharp won't retain the grid pattern at all. The longest I've left the pattern on the screen is one hour. Since having the retention on my iMac last month, I've been checking a grey background on the 20" Dell and I've never seen a hint of retention on it. Perhaps it could have retention in a hot room like you experienced.

I never said you have to have a hot room for it to happen, there are people that are getting IR within 5-10 mins, that is not normal and should be exchanged. However it is perfectly normal to get some light IR after several hours of having the same image on screen, especially in a hot environment. One hour may not be enough to get IR, it took my iMac over 2 hours to get it while watching a series of You tube videos NOT in fullscreen. Basically ALL LCD's have IR, as referenced in that whitepaper i linked too.

[WilliamG]

Originally Posted by torana355

READ the link to the white paper!!! ALL LCD DISPLAYS HAVE IR!!! The ambient temperature of the room can be a major factor. I speak facts mate, ive had my iMac since launch and have not noticed ONE bit of IR till a few days ago when it was a really hot day and i had the same window up for a few hours. Also note i don't get ANY IR from that 15 min grid test. Anyway ive given you proof so feel free to argue with the whitepaper.

I'm not sure what your point is. The hottest it's been, ambient-wise, in this room has been about 83F, and that was when we had a hot spell in Seattle. We don't do air conditioning here, for the most part, so it was ridiculously hot. I used my iMac all day and night over that time-period, and never had any IR.

Am I saying it's not possible for IPS panels to have IR? No! I'm saying MY panels do not have any IR! Surely that's all that matters, right? IF my panel starts to display even a HINT of IR, I'll be sure to update that here. But I've never owned a panel with IR.

My iPhones have always stayed in my pocket, with the screen facing toward my leg. What do you think the temperature of that display is? ? (I've owned every single iPhone, which means three of them are IPS panels, the 4, 4S, and 5). And have I seen IR on my iPhones? No! Not a hint of IR, there.

Just because my car is able to do 0-60 in 4.6 seconds doesn't mean I'll achieve 0-60 in 4.6 seconds, no matter how hard I try.

See what I'm saying?

I'm not sure what else you want me to say, really. My panel has ZERO IR. Lots of people's panels have ZERO IR. My menu bar is up probably 16 hours of the day. I've used IPS panels in hot temperatures. I can display that grid pattern for 16 hours straight if you like, and still won't see any IR. Are there some conditions out there that MAY cause me to see IR? Maybe! But I haven't found them. Good grief, get over it, - mate.

[torana355]

Originally Posted by WilliamG

I'm not sure what your point is. The hottest it's been, ambient-wise, in this room has been about 83F, and that was when we had a hot spell in Seattle. We don't do air conditioning here, for the most part, so it was ridiculously hot. I used my iMac all day and night over that time-period, and never had any IR.

Am I saying it's not possible for IPS panels to have IR? No! I'm saying MY panels do not have any IR! Surely that's all that matters, right? IF my panel starts to display even a HINT of IR, I'll be sure to update that here. But I've never owned a panel with IR.

My iPhones have always stayed in my pocket, with the screen facing toward my leg. What do you think the temperature of that display is? ? (I've owned every single iPhone, which means three of them are IPS panels, the 4, 4S, and 5). And have I seen IR on my iPhones? No! Not a hint of IR, there.

Just because my car is able to do 0-60 in 4.6 seconds doesn't mean I'll achieve 0-60 in 4.6 seconds, no matter how hard I try.

See what I'm saying?

I'm not sure what else you want me to say, really. My panel has ZERO IR. Lots of people's panels have ZERO IR. My menu bar is up probably 16 hours of the day. I've used IPS panels in hot temperatures. I can display that grid pattern for 16 hours straight if you like, and still won't see any IR. Are there some conditions out there that MAY cause me to see IR? Maybe! But I haven't found them. Good grief, get over it, - mate.

You did not read the white paper did you, you choose to ignore facts and ramble on about your opinions. Your panel does have IR, just like every other LCD panel on earth. My iphone does not show any IR either because it does not have high contrast areas to cause it, neither does using a Imac normally in day to day usage which is why most people do not see it. For all i know your vision could be shot lol. Here i will post it again if you actually care to see the facts. I believe the people that makes the screens over some random on an internet forum.

http://www.business-sites.philips.co...hite_paper.pdf

Edit: forget it the timer only goes to 10 mins.

[WilliamG]

Originally Posted by torana355

READ the link to the white paper!!! ALL LCD DISPLAYS HAVE IR!!! The ambient temperature of the room can be a major factor. I speak facts mate, ive had my iMac since launch and have not noticed ONE bit of IR till a few days ago when it was a really hot day and i had the same window up for a few hours. Also note i don't get ANY IR from that 15 min grid test. Anyway ive given you proof so feel free to argue with the whitepaper.

Originally Posted by torana355

You did not read the white paper did you, you choose to ignore facts and ramble on about your opinions. Your panel does have IR, just like every other LCD panel on earth. My iphone does not show any IR either because it does not have high contrast areas to cause it, neither does using a Imac normally in day to day usage which is why most people do not see it. For all i know your vision could be shot lol. Here i will post it again if you actually care to see the facts. I believe the people that makes the screens over some random on an internet forum.

http://www.business-sites.philips.co...hite_paper.pdf

Edit: forget it the timer only goes to 10 mins.

Did you really just link me to a general, "All LCD panels CAN exhibit IR" page? Seriously? That is NOTHING to do with the phenomenon people are experiencing here. People in this thread are experiencing DEFECTIVE panels. It's that simple. Any IR that shows up within 5-10 minutes = DEFECTIVE. Period. That whitepaper is referring to a "general" IR phenomenon that's been talked about for years and years (and something I have zero argument with). First you tell me that all IPS panels have IR. Now you're telling me all LCDs, IPS or otherwise - have IR. This is a giant waste of time. Next you'll be telling me that the people who had bad IR the second they turned their first 2012 iMac, got replacements that have NO IR - are lying!

Like always, Torana, we're done here.

[atteligibility]

Originally Posted by torana355

You did not read the white paper did you, you choose to ignore facts and ramble on about your opinions. Your panel does have IR, just like every other LCD panel on earth. My iphone does not show any IR either because it does not have high contrast areas to cause it, neither does using a Imac normally in day to day usage which is why most people do not see it. For all i know your vision could be shot lol. Here i will post it again if you actually care to see the facts. I believe the people that makes the screens over some random on an internet forum.

http://www.business-sites.philips.co...hite_paper.pdf

I challenge you to actually leave that grid on for 12 hours straight and take a photo of the timer then your screen afterwards. Also make sure your brightness is at least 50% when you do it.

1) You refer to that white paper as if it was some sort of University research paper. I mean come on, it's a 2 page papers put together in 20 minutes by a manufacturer, to justify to some angry customers why they should not return their TVs because 'no LCD display is free from IR"

2) I think you're just arguing about semantics. Let's assume your fancy white paper is right. Fine. All LCD displays have IR. But try to understand that if the IR is invisible to the naked eye, that makes it as good to the user as if it didn't have IR.
So, let's say you're right, all iMac displays have IR. But on some of them, it is just not visible to the naked eye. Can you agree with that and let it go?

[torana355]

Originally Posted by WilliamG

Did you really just link me to a general, "All LCD panels CAN exhibit IR" page? Seriously? That is NOTHING to do with the phenomenon people are experiencing here. People in this thread are experiencing DEFECTIVE panels. It's that simple. Any IR that shows up within 5-10 minutes = DEFECTIVE. Period. That whitepaper is referring to a "general" IR phenomenon that's been talked about for years and years (and something I have zero argument with). First you tell me that all IPS panels have IR. Now you're telling me all LCDs, IPS or otherwise - have IR. This is a giant waste of time. Next you'll be telling me that the people who had bad IR the second they turned their first 2012 iMac, got replacements that have NO IR - are lying!

Like always, Torana, we're done here.

Refer to post 210.....As i explained in that earlier post a screen that gets IR in 10 mins is NOT normal and should be replaced. However it is perfectly normal for ALL LCD panels to have IR after a lengthy period on a static screen. Im not sure sure why i bother arguing with some random that has no idea how a LCD actually works so i will leave it at that.

[WilliamG]

Originally Posted by torana355

Refer to post 210.....As i explained in that earlier post a screen that gets IR in 10 mins is NOT normal and should be replaced. However it is perfectly normal for ALL LCD panels to have IR after a lengthy period on a static screen. Im not sure sure why i bother arguing with some random that has no idea how a LCD actually works so i will leave it at that.

Your argument has switched so many times. First it was IPS panels, then it was all panels. Make up your mind. I agree, I missed your post 210. Happy?

Now, with THAT said...

It's not normal for a panel to display IR after displaying the same image for a few hours. It's just not. I display the same menu bar ALL day. Most Mac owners, do too! I work in LightRoom with extreme contrast menus up ALL DAY. Guess how much IR 99.9% of us have? Zero.

Here's the very first thing you said, post 204, which made me bother to reply:

Originally Posted by torana355

I just want to let people know ALL IPS panels will exhibit some sort or IR. I can leave that grid on for over 20 mins and get no IR but if i go on you tube for a few hours and keep the same screen up my 2012 will get IR. I would only take it back if you are getting IR in a very short period, less then 10 mins.

See, there was your IPS statement. Which was nonsense.

If you have IR within a few hours, you need a new panel. Period. You're more than welcome to convince all of us that our screens do the same thing, but they don't. You have a defective panel. But you can keep telling us what you want us to believe to make you feel better about your faulty purchase.

See attached an example of what I look at all damn day. And yes, I never set my display to go to sleep, and yes, I take several-hour breaks leaving my display full on.

And with that, I move on to more interesting threads where there are more reasonable people to talk to.

[torana355]

Originally Posted by WilliamG

If you have IR within a few hours, you need a new panel. Period. You're more than welcome to convince all of us that our screens do the same thing, but they don't. You have a defective panel. But you can keep telling us what you want us to believe to make you feel better about your faulty purchase.

See attached an example of what I look at all damn day. And yes, I never set my display to go to sleep, and yes, I take several-hour breaks leaving my display full on.

And with that, I move on to more interesting threads where there are more reasonable people to talk to.

You are just plain wrong, give me proof else its your opinion and nothing more. I posted the first document i found when doing a search on google that supports my argument, ive yet to see ANYTHING in black and white from you. btw that screenshot of yours is not high contrast lol, i would not expect any IR from that at all. Im not going to argue with you anymore as you clearly have no idea what you are talking about including the meaning of high contrast, and with that i move to other posts where people have a clue what they are talking about.

[atteligibility]

Originally Posted by torana355

I posted the first document i found when doing a search on google that supports my argument

That sums it all up.

You realize you can find documentation that supports virtually any thesis on any topic, right?

[torana355]

Originally Posted by atteligibility

That sums it all up.

You realize you can find documentation that supports virtually any thesis on any topic, right?

Yes that is true but i used a document from an actual company, not from some random in a forum that thinks they know how an LCD panels works. Which holds more weight? Feel free to find a half reputable link that proves otherwise. Ill wait ( It should be easy going off your post ) I don't deal with people that can't give some sort of proof or source, as that just leaves opinions, and we all know what opinions are like.

[atteligibility]

Originally Posted by torana355

Yes that is true but i used a document from an actual company, not from some random in a forum that thinks they know how an LCD panels works. Which holds more weight? Feel free to find a half reputable link that proves otherwise. Ill wait ( It should be easy going off your post ) I don't deal with people that can't give some sort of proof or source, as that just leaves opinions, and we all know what opinions are like.

Not sure what your problem is.

The guy, and many of us, tell you we have no visible IR whatsoever. We all (maybe not you, i dont know) work for companies, actually I have my own. If I write you a quick white paper that tells you not all iMac have IR, does that become the truth? wth?

I guess you're one of those guys that believe something is true just because it's on TV... sigh...

You having IR proves only one thing: some iMac have IR. Extending that observation to 'all iMac have IR' is a fallacy.
Some of us having no IR proves only one thing: not all iMac show IR.

No need for a PDF "from a company" to tell us whether or not what we have in front of our eyes 10 hours a day has that problem or not....

[torana355]

Originally Posted by atteligibility

Not sure what your problem is.

The guy, and many of us, tell you we have no visible IR whatsoever. We all (maybe not you, i dont know) work for companies, actually I have my own. If I write you a quick white paper that tells you not all iMac have IR, does that become the truth? wth?

I guess you're one of those guys that believe something is true just because it's on TV... sigh...

You having IR proves only one thing: some iMac have IR. Extending that observation to 'all iMac have IR' is a fallacy.
Some of us having no IR proves only one thing: not all iMac show IR.

No need for a PDF "from a company" to tell us whether or not what we have in front of our eyes 10 hours a day has that problem or not....

Just as i suspected, no link to a source and the link i used was from a large electronics company..... Don't waste my time please. Feel free to read back though my posts if you actually want to learn something, i had ZERO IR on my 2012 iMac that i got on the 17th of DEC until a few days ago when i had the same high contrast screen on for over 2 hours. I can leave that grid test on for an hour and have NO IR, it only happens when the screen is static for very long periods.

The liquid crystals used in LCD panels will stay in the same position after a period of time, it takes time for them to return to a relaxed state. I have given proof that this is normal for all LCD's and not one person has posted any kind of link that proves otherwise. i rest my case. Hell have you even left a high contrast screen on for over 2 hours to know if yours does it?? The amount of misinformation on these forums is astounding.

[atteligibility]

Originally Posted by torana355

Just as i suspected, no link to a source and the link i used was from a large electronics company..... Don't waste my time please. Feel free to read back though my posts if you actually want to learn something, i had ZERO IR on my 2012 iMac that i got on the 17th of DEC until a few days ago when i had the same high contrast screen on for over 2 hours. I can leave that grid test on for an hour and have NO IR, it only happens when the screen is static for very long periods.

The liquid crystals used in LCD panels will stay in the same position after a period of time, it takes time for them to return to a relaxed state. I have given proof that this is normal for all LCD's and not one person has posted any kind of link that proves otherwise. i rest my case. Hell have you even left a high contrast screen on for over 2 hours to know if yours does it?? The amount of misinformation on these forums is astounding.

You must not have read my posts carefully. For someone that loves reading white papers, you should pay close attention to my choice of words. I said that not all screens 'SHOW' IR. I told you I was willing to agree that there was IR in all LCDs, so why would I come up with a PDF (since thats the only thing you value) to disagree with that?

I am telling you that you don't seem to make the difference between theory and practice. Theoretically, all LCD have IR as you pointed out in that great white paper (sarcasm). Practically, a lot of units don't exhibit enough of the problem to be visible to the naked eye.
What you don't understand is that to 99.9999 of the users, No visible IR is as good as No real IR. You can argue all you want that their screens have IR by definition, what f**ing difference does it make if it's not visible!!!

Your unit seems to be showing much more IR than the average one. I understand you want to think all units are as bad as yours. I know the feeling, you don't want to think that your unit isn't as good, as you would need to either go to the trouble of exchanging it or live with a defective unit.
I understand your frustration, but that's not a reason to be that rude to everybody...

[tmorterlaing]

Originally Posted by torana355

I just want to let people know ALL IPS panels will exhibit some sort or IR. I can leave that grid on for over 20 mins and get no IR but if i go on you tube for a few hours and keep the same screen up my 2012 will get IR. I would only take it back if you are getting IR in a very short period, less then 10 mins.

Im going to have to agree with WilliamG above- that is not true at all. As I said before, Ive had every model of iMac since about 2005 and whilst many of them have had other issues, IR has NEVER been one of them. I edit video as well, so they get plenty hot.

EDIT- after reading more, torana355 has annoyed me so I feel the need to add more weight to this.
As above, Im a video editor, working on a mid 2011 iMac 27". It's normally room temp at coolest in here, but there's a lot of equipment and it can get pretty toasty. I never turn it down from maximum brightness. A good amount of Final Cut Pro stays the same throughout the day (i.e. grey and black bit which don't move around the screen). There have been days where its been nothing but that on the screen for at least 9 hours, without any change. There has then been absolutely no VISIBLE IR at all. Similarly we've had days at a time where we've had two static finder window open whilst stuff has copied, and we've needed to keep an eye on it so didn't turn on screensaver. No IR at all was visible. Now frankly, I don't feel the need to support this with images because I know it to be the case, and if you are choosing to believe one white paper over what a lot of people are saying, all of whom have used macs for a long time, then that's your problem, but please don't take that paranoia out on us.

[torana355]

Originally Posted by tmorterlaing

Im going to have to agree with WilliamG above- that is not true at all. As I said before, Ive had every model of iMac since about 2005 and whilst many of them have had other issues, IR has NEVER been one of them. I edit video as well, so they get plenty hot.

EDIT- after reading more, torana355 has annoyed me so I feel the need to add more weight to this.
As above, Im a video editor, working on a mid 2011 iMac 27". It's normally room temp at coolest in here, but there's a lot of equipment and it can get pretty toasty. I never turn it down from maximum brightness. A good amount of Final Cut Pro stays the same throughout the day (i.e. grey and black bit which don't move around the screen). There have been days where its been nothing but that on the screen for at least 9 hours, without any change. There has then been absolutely no VISIBLE IR at all. Similarly we've had days at a time where we've had two static finder window open whilst stuff has copied, and we've needed to keep an eye on it so didn't turn on screensaver. No IR at all was visible. Now frankly, I don't feel the need to support this with images because I know it to be the case, and if you are choosing to believe one white paper over what a lot of people are saying, all of whom have used macs for a long time, then that's your problem, but please don't take that paranoia out on us.

Once again that is nothing but your opinion. Show me some facts. Did you bring up a grey screen each time to check for IR? I doubt it, i only saw mine as i had a grey desktop picture. To take it further i cant replicate the IR when bringing up finder windows or running any of the adobe suite (i work in graphic prepress) Non of the toolbars are retained even when i leave it on all day. However, under certain conditions like having the same you tube video up for hours i was able to see some light IR on a grey screen. Just because you have not seen it does not mean your panel does not suffer from it, it is not easy to see light IR

You all seem to think im saying this because im unhappy with my iMac but you could not be more wrong, check out all my posts on this forum and my opinions of my iMac, i love the damb thing lol, furthermore if i did think it was an issue i would get it exchanged, no big deal. Do some research and you will find that everything ive said is 100% correct, and yes the same can be replicated on any LCD panel under the right conditions, including your precious apple device. Ive had enough of trying to educate you people so im out of this thread. Goodbye

[itsamacthing]

Can I highjack this thread back to where it should be? How is everyone doing out there who has gotten a 27 inch? Any IR? And if you got IR, after you exchanged, what are the results?