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Old Jan 29, 2013, 07:04 AM   #51
M-O
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Originally Posted by hovscorpion12 View Post
This move is called shorting the stock. get owners scared, sell. Once the price gets to a designated spot, start buying again. Its extremely risky, but making making money on loss, priceless. Apple's stock is going to continue to fall to cover the gap. Apple could go bellow 400.00 by February. Apple is in trouble if it doesn not fix it this year. Apple can easily retake the market with a revampt IOS 7, iPhone, iPad and a new "special product."
this has very little to do with apple.
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Old Jan 29, 2013, 09:44 AM   #52
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Not suprising, bad earnings report, stock was overtopped. They need to tap into the spirit of Steve and innovate again then they can keep the gains going.

Last edited by pizz; Jan 29, 2013 at 10:12 AM.
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Old Jan 29, 2013, 10:08 AM   #53
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I'll buy some more Apple stock once it falls below $400. Shouldn't be too long now.
I agree, if they wow everyone on the iOS 7.
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Old Jan 29, 2013, 11:08 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by ArtOfWarfare View Post
I'm glad I don't own any stocks... it just sounds too risky...
Take it from someone who worked in I.T. for a Fortune 100 brokerage: stock trading is basically gambling, except they all wear suits and ties.
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Old Jan 29, 2013, 11:14 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by aliensporebomb View Post
Take it from someone who worked in I.T. for a Fortune 100 brokerage: stock trading is basically gambling, except they all wear suits and ties.
I'm not the most knowledgable person on the subject, but I believe there is a key difference between the two - there's no house. No house means there's no guaranteed winner which means the odds of ordinary people like us winning are a good deal better if we're playing with stocks instead of gambling.
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Old Jan 29, 2013, 11:19 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by ArtOfWarfare View Post
I'm not the most knowledgable person on the subject, but I believe there is a key difference between the two - there's no house. No house means there's no guaranteed winner which means the odds of ordinary people like us winning are a good deal better if we're playing with stocks instead of gambling.
Except that there IS a house, of sorts... that is what this article is about.
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Old Jan 29, 2013, 11:19 AM   #57
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They will just drive it up in a few weeks, and make a few million... Welcome to Wall Street!
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Old Jan 29, 2013, 11:44 AM   #58
pizz
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Originally Posted by ArtOfWarfare View Post
I'm glad I don't own any stocks... it just sounds too risky...
its riskier keeping your money in a bank account earning only 0.3%

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Originally Posted by aliensporebomb View Post
Take it from someone who worked in I.T. for a Fortune 100 brokerage: stock trading is basically gambling, except they all wear suits and ties.
If you dont know what youre doing then yeah

Last edited by pizz; Jan 29, 2013 at 11:58 AM.
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Old Jan 29, 2013, 12:52 PM   #59
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If you dont know what youre doing then yeah
I think you've highlighted the problem. There shouldn't be much to "knowing what you're doing." Find a company that is solid in what they are doing and is likely to continue to generate a profit and INVEST. If it's more complicated than that, it is illustrative to the GAMBLING going on, rather than INVESTMENT.

I think many of you are missing the big picture that investment *should be* a two-way street, not a get-rich-quick game for day-traders. Apple is controlled by the idiocy going on with their stock. They can only ignore it so long, and then they will have to make stupid, short-term moves to satisfy the idiots rather than what is really good for the company.

Sure, a few who, as you say, "know what they are doing" will make some money, while hurting the companies they are gaming with, essentially sawing off the branch under their feet. Unless they have an escape plan, even the rich are eventually not going to be very happy when it all grinds to a halt.
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Old Jan 29, 2013, 01:08 PM   #60
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Didn't Apple already dump Flash?
Quick. Very quick.
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Old Jan 29, 2013, 02:21 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by johncrab View Post
Apple is just Wall Street's latest cash cow. Here is how it works:

Big institutional investors get together in back rooms and choose companies they know are really solid and have profit in their future. They set irrationally high quarterly numbers or claim a company "did not exceed expectations by enough". They start a plunge by selling short a large block of shares to create panic. Then other companies and individuals panic (predictably) and dump their shares thinking the sky is falling. The share price plunges.

When the damage has been done and a share price has been devalued 20-30%, the big investors start buying back those shares. Momentum builds and drives the price back where it was and they make billions as the price rises, more than offsetting the short sell they used to start this march of the lemmings.

I watched Wall St do this to GE at 8 month intervals in the late 80's, working a 10 point drop then rise. GE killed this with repurchase programs but the same thing has happened to HP and Microsoft and other companies. It is extremely predictable once it starts but only the fat cats make the real money, basically by defrauding smaller investors by making them panic.
Thanks for that insight. Proves that if there is a way to make more money, while doing even less, people will find it. This kind of conduct is not only immoral and unconscionable, but gives a whole new meaning to the concept of manipulation. It amounts to 'legal' grand theft. Not sure how, or even if, this could be made illegal.
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Old Jan 29, 2013, 02:43 PM   #62
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Not suprising, bad earnings report, stock was overtopped. They need to tap into the spirit of Steve and innovate again then they can keep the gains going.
It was the best report ever in the history of the company, how can it be a bad earnings report?

"People"(the analysts) simple throw some number in the air and boom,if it hits its good if nots its bad,if they predict apple will sell 100 million iphones in a quarter and they obviously didn't reach it the news will be that it missed the analysts predictions,its just mind boggling,most people know that the kind of growth Apple had wasn't sustainable for the long-term,it gets to a point where its just too big to keep growing at that pace.
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Old Jan 29, 2013, 04:18 PM   #63
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And today Amazon basically misses on almost every metric and yet their stock is up over 8% in after hours trading. They missed analyst consensus on EPS, revenue and net income and yet they're way up after hours.
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Old Jan 29, 2013, 04:48 PM   #64
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I agree, if they wow everyone on the iOS 7.
An iOS release isn't going to bring stock prices up. Possibly deflate it a bit.
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Old Jan 29, 2013, 07:11 PM   #65
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its just mind boggling,most people know that the kind of growth Apple had wasn't sustainable for the long-term,it gets to a point where its just too big to keep growing at that pace.
I think they are still growing at a pretty rapid pace, but you make a good point. That kind of growth, at least for one product or sector can't keep going forever. It shouldn't have to. What *should* be important is that they continue to be profitable at some reasonable level.

However, as I noted, this isn't really INVESTMENT any longer. If Apple doesn't grow at some pace that keeps them happy, they will simply move on to something else they think will. To some extent, that is understandable. People want to put their money where they think they will get the most in return. However, the modern stock market takes that to absurd levels, where, as I said, it is no longer investment. The companies are harmed. The customers are harmed. The economy is harmed. The only winners are those who happen to make the right moves, or those who are manipulating the market to their gain.

I'm not sure what the fix needs to be, but there needs to be a fix. If not, the game will eventually end. That won't be a pretty picture for anyone.
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Old Jan 29, 2013, 11:49 PM   #66
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No manipulation here folks...move along
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 12:22 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
And today Amazon basically misses on almost every metric and yet their stock is up over 8% in after hours trading. They missed analyst consensus on EPS, revenue and net income and yet they're way up after hours.
Their margins increased. I think it was thought that was evidence that their Kindles were gaining traction since media consumption would increase their margins. But I'm wondering how much more a retailer can increase their margins. Amazon's due for a fall eventually, but it looks like it won't be today.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 04:24 AM   #68
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Their margins increased. I think it was thought that was evidence that their Kindles were gaining traction since media consumption would increase their margins. But I'm wondering how much more a retailer can increase their margins. Amazon's due for a fall eventually, but it looks like it won't be today.
I don't think Apple's margin can increase much more,I mean they account for some 70%/80% of profits on the smartphone industry,the tablet industry is basically theirs in terms of profits and im sure their margins in everything else are pretty high too.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 09:00 AM   #69
pizz
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Originally Posted by DMH3006 View Post
It was the best report ever in the history of the company, how can it be a bad earnings report?

"People"(the analysts) simple throw some number in the air and boom,if it hits its good if nots its bad,if they predict apple will sell 100 million iphones in a quarter and they obviously didn't reach it the news will be that it missed the analysts predictions,its just mind boggling,most people know that the kind of growth Apple had wasn't sustainable for the long-term,it gets to a point where its just too big to keep growing at that pace.
Most of the explosive growth in apple happened around the innovations of the ipod, iphone, ipad. To grow they need to expand beyond that. Apple showerheads maybe?

Last edited by pizz; Jan 30, 2013 at 09:14 AM.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 01:25 PM   #70
flux73
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I don't think Apple's margin can increase much more,I mean they account for some 70%/80% of profits on the smartphone industry,the tablet industry is basically theirs in terms of profits and im sure their margins in everything else are pretty high too.
Maybe, but I was talking about Amazon's margins - how much can they increase? The investors obviously think quite a bit with a P/E ratio of infinity. SMH.

And I think Apple's margin CAN increase. I think one strategy would be to split the iPhone lines into a less expensive plastic model and a high end (high margin) pricey model. The plastic model might be able to maintain margins with the lower price. Or only have a slight decrease which would be more than made up for by the huge increase in volume. The high end model would then increase the margins - you know there would be more than enough buyers of the high end model.

Apple's margins can also increase if they ever make that leap into fab. I'll wait here for the inevitable protests of this strategy.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 02:03 PM   #71
From A Buick 8
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Originally Posted by pizz View Post
Most of the explosive growth in apple happened around the innovations of the ipod, iphone, ipad. To grow they need to expand beyond that. Apple showerheads maybe?
"Apple showerheads " Im in, can i pre-order.

Invest long term, have a diversified portfolio. Takes a good chunk of the risk out.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 12:44 AM   #72
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The only way to prevent the manipulation is with strong regulations. Of course that will never happen as politicians are in the back pockets of these Wall Street fat cats.
If investors are fooled by the ploy, then they aren't properly investing. Stocks go up and down, that's the way it is. Regulation is needed to prevent the entire stock market from tanking, not to prevent people with money from playing around with a particular stock.
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