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Old Jan 30, 2013, 06:22 AM   #151
M-O
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Originally Posted by dazed View Post
If this is the only change then they are truly lost when it comes to what their customers want.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 07:36 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by M-O View Post
apps
I said it before and folks on this forum got upset with me, ROKU is the one to beat in this category. They took Apple's concept of App store and created a 'channel' store, and recently even added games.

As much as I love my Apple ecosystem, I love my Roku. The only thing I can't access on it is iTunes and iCloud, but then again most my music purchases are from Amazon MP3 and I can use their cloud player on Roku.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 08:18 AM   #153
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Eventually they are gonna have to innovate again. You can only shrink things so much before they disappear. It seems to me that Apple also wants their share of the market to get smaller as well.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 08:30 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by adder7712 View Post
The 3 HDTVs that I bought for the last 4 years have 4 HDMI ports.
Which changes the FACT that the majority of HDTVs sold have 3 or fewer (according to consumer reports among others) how?

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by APlotdevice View Post
An HDMI pass through would be a far better solution to this problem than analog outputs. This way not only would you save a port while maintaining the quality of a digital signal, but it could even do interesting things like overlaying and "transparent" AirPlay.
I suggested that in the original message where I talked about, plus it would let you get alerts on TV from the AppleTV even when you aren't watching it as long as the as the passthru port was going to the screen.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 08:38 AM   #155
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 08:43 AM   #156
Tigger11
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Originally Posted by nick_elt View Post
Thats like apple putting back a floppy drive because there is only 3 usb ports.
No Nick, and I actually would prefer a HDMI passthru, but when both AppleTV 2 and AppleTV 3 came out there were whole threads about how it really needed to do things differently because with a cable box, Bluray player and a gaming system, they didnt have enough HDMI ports, or their projectors didnt have 2 HDMI inputs (which is why I don't put 10 of them in the conference rooms at work), hopefully they are paying that expensive NRE, to do something to expand AppleTVs market, not just to put a die shrunk obsolete part in the box.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 08:48 AM   #157
BSoares
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I wish it was heavier. The current ones will move with the weight of the HDMI cord. And if you have a cord that needs to turn shortly after the AppleTV the little device goes with it. So if they're making it smaller, that will likely get worse.

I would also like if it had a connection to an external camera that we'd put on top of the TV and that could be used for FaceTime
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 08:53 AM   #158
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4mm less width means the hdmi port will have to be replaced with a thunderbolt port. So you'll need a long tb-hdmi cord ($99) if you want to use it with other displays than Apples TBD.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 08:57 AM   #159
Wheeler
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Originally Posted by bacaramac View Post
Could this just be the measurements without the small plastic shell?
Exactly what I was thinking- I don't have a good way to measure but if you look at the bottom of the atv the rubber parts seems to be this "new" dimension. Plus, does it say anything about how tall it is? Hopefully they don't ditch the Ethernet port and go way thin
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 09:12 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by Tiger8 View Post
I said it before and folks on this forum got upset with me, ROKU is the one to beat in this category. They took Apple's concept of App store and created a 'channel' store, and recently even added games.
So is the problem here games on the ATV?

Or is the problem that AirPlay isn't "live"?

I wanted games on the ATV, and with this latest upgrade it's clear they can do this. The A5X gives you the graphics chops, and the new bluetooth seems like a direct attempt to support game controllers.

But is that the right solution? Wouldn't it be better to use an iPhone running the game, and then beam that to the TV? I think what's needed is a way to have multiple players on their own boxen, whatever those area, and giving them each a chunk of the screen. And lag has to be low to zero.

That seems to be a huge advance over running the games on the ATV itself. I can walk away at any time and keep going. I can play single or multiplayer, no changes at all. It would kick the Wii U butt.

You still need apps for things like TV channels, don't get me wrong. But I am becoming more and more convinced that we already have all the gaming hardware we need and just need a better display system.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 09:19 AM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maury View Post
So is the problem here games on the ATV?

Or is the problem that AirPlay isn't "live"?

I wanted games on the ATV, and with this latest upgrade it's clear they can do this. The A5X gives you the graphics chops, and the new bluetooth seems like a direct attempt to support game controllers.

But is that the right solution? Wouldn't it be better to use an iPhone running the game, and then beam that to the TV? I think what's needed is a way to have multiple players on their own boxen, whatever those area, and giving them each a chunk of the screen. And lag has to be low to zero.

That seems to be a huge advance over running the games on the ATV itself. I can walk away at any time and keep going. I can play single or multiplayer, no changes at all. It would kick the Wii U butt.

You still need apps for things like TV channels, don't get me wrong. But I am becoming more and more convinced that we already have all the gaming hardware we need and just need a better display system.
WSJ has a live channel.
At New Years, and some other events, a live channel appears.
I suspect their sports 'apps' even have live feeds.

They have the technology. They just don't have all the licensing setup.

Gaming controls are lagging over wifi. Bluetooth may fix that...

iCloud sync of saves between AppleTV with bluetooth controllers, and your iPhone/iPad on the go. I'm drooling.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 09:47 AM   #162
Deadeyeshark
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Caught between a rock and a hard place. I could do with an additional Apple TV, but it has to be wired. I can wait for the new revision but will be gutted if they drop ethernet, HD just doesn't cut it in an old house via wireless.

I use an airport extreme, with three airport expresses and still can't match wired.

I can only think if it's not ethernet they do away with the useless USB port and flip the HDMI port sideways...? Unless the box is slightly taller, but I can't see that happening.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 10:01 AM   #163
oerigoi
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Size of new AppleTV will remain the same !

The drawing in the FCC filing displays the rubbery bottom-part of the AppleTV. That part on my 1st-gen model has exactly those dimensions 93,8 mm by 93,8 mm.

So once the device is fully assembled the outer dimension will remain the same.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 10:29 AM   #164
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I knew there was a reason to hold off on buying an AppleTV
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 10:30 AM   #165
M-O
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Originally Posted by Tiger8 View Post
I said it before and folks on this forum got upset with me, ROKU is the one to beat in this category. They took Apple's concept of App store and created a 'channel' store, and recently even added games.

As much as I love my Apple ecosystem, I love my Roku. The only thing I can't access on it is iTunes and iCloud, but then again most my music purchases are from Amazon MP3 and I can use their cloud player on Roku.
i agree. Roku has got the right idea and Apple has a massive iOS developer community.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 10:57 AM   #166
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I am all up for a new Apple TV, feature wise as long as it's 1080p and hopefully third party apps like iOS, then happy days...... (Plex)

But please, please, please, fix the horrible interface.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 01:18 PM   #167
Tigger11
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Originally Posted by oerigoi View Post
The drawing in the FCC filing displays the rubbery bottom-part of the AppleTV. That part on my 1st-gen model has exactly those dimensions 93,8 mm by 93,8 mm.

So once the device is fully assembled the outer dimension will remain the same.
Congrats, as we now see from the newer post, you are completely correct.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 01:59 PM   #168
2IS
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Originally Posted by Tigger11 View Post
They are having the FCC hold the external pics until its released, no reason to do that if it has the same ports.
So you think it will have Component Out and an extra HDMI port? How much would you like to bet that it won't?
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 02:33 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by JHankwitz View Post
Smaller translates to less cost? In my reality, smaller usually costs more.
When it comes to fabricating something onto silicon or glass, smaller is usually cheaper. The reason being that things like processors, memory, and displays are fabricated in multiples on large sheets of whatever substrate and then cut apart. The smaller the device you're trying to fabricate, the more you can fit on a single sheet. Where things do get complicated is the fact that sometimes in order to achieve the same performance at a smaller size, more exotic elements are needed. These can bring up the cost of a mobile processor.

Smaller also means that you need less plastic for the housing. That can help reduce cost as well.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 03:19 PM   #170
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So you think it will have Component Out and an extra HDMI port? How much would you like to bet that it won't?

No, given its not changing size (ie See the newest article), I dont think anything is going to change. Apple wasnt going to change form-factor for no reason, the delta on cost would take millions of units to recover the likely NRE, its not worth it. I surely wasnt suggesting they were going to put both Component and HDMI passthru on the system, I was suggesting one of the other and it was an actual reason for a change in the size of hardware, since we arent getting a change in size of hardware, we aren't getting a change in the ports available either.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 04:50 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by HobeSoundDarryl View Post
I never said anything different. I think you're viewing the topic as "Apple saved the music industry" which may- in fact- be true. But it doesn't change what I said about the video guys not wanting to be the next industry to get under Apple's thumb.

I wasn't attacking Apple in that- just pointing out that in hindsight, the music industry likely wishes they had worked this in some other way (and have now spent many years trying to reduce Apple's hold over them). The video guys have the benefit of that hindsight- a very clear view of what happens if you allow Apple to gain domination over your products, pricing, etc. They don't want to repeat what they see as errors made by their music industry cousins.
Yes, I understood what you were saying. I was only adding that there was a lot more to the story. Also, you seemed to imply that Apple had taken advantage of the "naive" music industry. This could be true I suppose if you looked at it from their perspective. I tend to think they needed to be taken advantage of, for the good of the whole industry and especially the good of the actual writers and performers of music. Video is a whole different animal, maybe just as corrupt as the music industry. In their dealings with Apple they have the benefit of hindsight. The whole thing is a nasty can of worms. I'd hate to be a negotiator for either side.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 08:11 AM   #172
Tiger8
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Apple U!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maury View Post
So is the problem here games on the ATV?

Or is the problem that AirPlay isn't "live"?

I wanted games on the ATV, and with this latest upgrade it's clear they can do this. The A5X gives you the graphics chops, and the new bluetooth seems like a direct attempt to support game controllers.

But is that the right solution? Wouldn't it be better to use an iPhone running the game, and then beam that to the TV? I think what's needed is a way to have multiple players on their own boxen, whatever those area, and giving them each a chunk of the screen. And lag has to be low to zero.

That seems to be a huge advance over running the games on the ATV itself. I can walk away at any time and keep going. I can play single or multiplayer, no changes at all. It would kick the Wii U butt.

You still need apps for things like TV channels, don't get me wrong. But I am becoming more and more convinced that we already have all the gaming hardware we need and just need a better display system.
I like that a lot. You are on to something! The 'tools' are already there and more than capable of running the scenario you described. I think Apple should seriously look into this since it would make folks like me who have iPhones / iPads to consider buying Apple TV.

Roku's games and remote mimic the original Wii, but this takes it to the next level.
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