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Old Jan 31, 2013, 12:53 PM   #126
Tech198
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So, Apple can't sell it Europe due to change ? Well, then thats Europe's problem, not Apple's.... Their, just doing the right thing.

Why was the change anyway? After all this time ?
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 12:53 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by jrswizzle View Post
A company the size of Apple doesn't get there and stay there without having a very well thought-out and strategic plan for their products.
With Steve Jobs gone, more than a few people wonder if Apple still has a well thought-out strategy. The most recent Mac Pro 'refresh' controversy only served to reinforce that concern with those who are the MP target market.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 12:53 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by monokakata View Post
Wait, you don't really mean that, do you?

Diagnostic LEDs -- for example? I can't see through aluminum, and I don't think you can either.

I've worked on plenty of powered-up computers, and seen plenty of well-trained techs do the same (for example, techs from the late great Digital Equipment Corporation). It was a DEC engineer who taught me to use a cable tie to test whether a hidden fan was spinning or not.

Because everybody's guessing, my guess is that it has to do with properly isolating/insulating AC. I've been into tons of boxes (typically not computers) with interlocks that break the AC connection when the box is opened, and of course the Mac Pro doesn't have anything like that.

This (positive interlock) was especially common on old tube TVs (yeah, I'm not young . . . I disassembled my first TV back in the 1950s), even though the charge in their capacitors could easily kill you.
You are talking to iMac (soon to be iPad) generation
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 12:54 PM   #129
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Some dimwit hurt their finger while touching a moving fan blade & went crying to the government.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 12:55 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by iBug2 View Post

Btw, your condescending tone would actually hurt if there was someone around here who worked with FCPX and did do a oscar winning documentary. Not everyone who doesn't need AVID is a wedding videographer.
I'm not sure who I'm being condescending to or how I can be since I'm not a pro or anything near myself. I don't see it as a put down to say Fellini was a pro -- perhaps a bad example since he predated video editing -- and some kid making wedding videos is not, in the genius of things. That's just reality. A true pro could make anything look good, even using just iMovie. Of course they don't because of workflow and capability issues, but that really is what separates the great from the mediocre.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 12:56 PM   #131
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For the first time, I'm genuinely starting to worry.

I work in pro audio and *really* need a new Mac Pro, because my aging 1st generation quad-core no longer has the horsepower required to run modern audio plugins the way I need to.

I would be rushing to the Apple Store tomorrow, debit card in hand, if all Apple did was release exactly the same Mac Pro as they have now, but with up-to-date processor architecture and a couple of Thunderbolt connectors.

I'm all for a redesign, but only as long as Apple doesn't do one of those redesigns that entails deleting a bunch of features it thinks people no longer need. Because I'm people, and I do!

I need a minimum of three PCIe slots for Pro Tools HD, UAD2 DSP, RME MADI interfaces, etc.
I need Firewire 800. Several expensive external devices I depend on use Firewire only.
I need that built-in optical TOS-link audio output (even though I have very expensive external interfaces as well)
I need to be able to run three monitors simultaneously.
I need lots of fast, cheap, internal storage.

I realise that's a lot of "I need, I need..." But as far as my work is concerned, it really is all about me. I know more about what I need to do my job than Apple do. Apple could of course ask me...

And if anyone suggests that you can do all your expansion externally these days - even if all these devices were available as external Thunderbolt devices, which they're not - a smaller computer with half a dozen extra boxes and their power supplies all hanging off the Thunderbolt bus is in no way a more convenient or elegant solution than housing them inside the computer. My studio is enough of a tangled mess already thank you very much.


I've been an Mac owner and user since the late eighties. I still have the IIcx that I spent my life savings on in 1988 in the loft. If this European ban does turn out to be a subtle excuse for cancelling the Mac Pro line later on, then it's the end of a long happy road for me and Apple. I'm not confident that I can reliably do everything I do now on a Windows system. Plus I detest Windows. I only use Windows if someone holds a metaphorical gun to my head. I'd basically be sitting there in my studio all day, mixing with one hand and metaphorically blowing my own brains out with the other.

I hope Apple remember that it was the loyalty of professional creative arts users kept them in business thru all those difficult years. Some loyalty in return would be nice. After all, it's not as if they sell Mac Pros at a loss...
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 12:56 PM   #132
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I hate European Union - these idiots will ban everything ! People are clever enough not to put fingers inside working fans.

They want to block plush teddy bears to children because they got bacteria inside...
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 12:58 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by applesith View Post
So this regulation is about fan blades turning off when the computer is opened?

What kind of idiot opens a computer when it's on? If you do that, you deserve to lose your fingers. Another regulation protecting the brain dead.
You could put your finger in a computer fan until the end of time and you would not 'lose your finger'. They can spin up to ~3200 rpm's, have little torque, they're not sharp and have very little mass. This is a dumb regulation protecting nobody.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 01:00 PM   #134
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This feels like a minor engineering change to me. I would not be surprised to see MacPro be bifurcated to a Mac-Mini like box and a stackable module to take PCI cards, physical drives, and other add-ins. TB facilitates that. The main module would be a server farm candidate.

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Old Jan 31, 2013, 01:00 PM   #135
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Because someone has the ability to hurt themselves with this pro-level machine, it gets banned...

Wow. It really is up to the government to take care of everything, isn't it?

Are you allowed to buy weed-eaters or lawn mowers?

They need to put big squishy cushions under that thing. It weighs over thirty pounds, couldn't it hurt a toe or something!?!
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 01:00 PM   #136
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And people wonder why Western economies are imploding and contracting.

We need more regulations !!!!!!
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 01:00 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basesloaded190 View Post
You realize this is something Apple has no control over right? This is a government regulation.
You do realize the IEC published this particular amendment in December 2009, right? That's three years of notice for the product to get updated. So yeah, it just might be a little bit apple's fault for not meeting it by now.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 01:02 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
This feels like a minor engineering change to me. I would not be surprised to see MacPro be bifurcated to a Mac-Mini like box and a stackable module to take PCI cards, physical drives, and other add-ins. TB facilitates that. The main module would be a server farm candidate.

Rocketman
Only if Thunderbolt gets a TON more bandwidth overnight. TB only has as much bandwidth as a single (!) 4x PCIe slot. That’s not enough to serve a single card that requires 8x PCIe bandwidth (or a graphics card seeking 16x), much less multiple cards.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 01:03 PM   #139
Spacedust
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMar View Post
You could put your finger in a computer fan until the end of time and you would not 'lose your finger'. They can spin up to ~3200 rpm's, have little torque, they're not sharp and have very little mass. This is a dumb regulation protecting nobody.
I remember having a Delta Fan 60x60 mm in my PC - it was spinning 8000 rpm and fan protection was a must
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 01:03 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chupa Chupa View Post
Not sure where your anger is coming from. The MP product withdrawal is due to an EU regulation. Are you now blaming Apple for regulations all companies much adhere to?
No, but it's - once more - showing Apple doesn't care about its Mac creative/business customers. If you don't update the MacPro product line for almost three years (and the EU doesn't add regulation overnight, Apple knew about this some time ago...) it's a FU to all pro/business customers imho.

I doubt other HW vendors have to retire products in the EU because they didn't keep them outdated for so long. (If not, show me the links of Acer, Dell, HP etc. having to retire products in the EU...).

I would like to see the incremental costs of updating the MacPro every 12-18 months instead of 36 months. I doubt Apple would lose money or make less money because there would also be higher sales thanks to fresh products.

I understand them killing the XServe line etc., but the MacPro is strategically important for Apple - beyond the pure HW revenue.

It's a shame considering they have 137bn in the bank.

Redesigning the MacPro and keeping it current can't be that hard.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 01:04 PM   #141
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What sales?

Who's actually buying these things?

I've been dying to buy a new Mac Pro for years but there's o way I'm spending several thousand on such old tech.

How long have thunderbolt ports been out? So much for a 'PRO' machine...
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 01:04 PM   #142
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Apple should give all Mac Pro owners a special protective fan bumpers ;D
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 01:05 PM   #143
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People still buy MacPro?
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 01:05 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by Ralf The Dog View Post
Congratulations for not choosing Windows 8.
The decision took .....0.68 seconds. For an IT guy, that's almost an eternity.

Pure 64-bit debian over here. We're running Houdini Master and Nuke. If there was an open-source NLE, Cinelerra doesn't count, Mac would be history at my studio.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 01:05 PM   #145
sseaton1971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popelife View Post
For the first time, I'm genuinely starting to worry.

I work in pro audio and *really* need a new Mac Pro, because my aging 1st generation quad-core no longer has the horsepower required to run modern audio plugins the way I need to.

I would be rushing to the Apple Store tomorrow, debit card in hand, if all Apple did was release exactly the same Mac Pro as they have now, but with up-to-date processor architecture and a couple of Thunderbolt connectors.

I'm all for a redesign, but only as long as Apple doesn't do one of those redesigns that entails deleting a bunch of features it thinks people no longer need. Because I'm people, and I do!

I need a minimum of three PCIe slots for Pro Tools HD, UAD2 DSP, RME MADI interfaces, etc.
I need Firewire 800. Several expensive external devices I depend on use Firewire only.
I need that built-in optical TOS-link audio output (even though I have very expensive external interfaces as well)
I need to be able to run three monitors simultaneously.
I need lots of fast, cheap, internal storage.

I realise that's a lot of "I need, I need..." But as far as my work is concerned, it really is all about me. I know more about what I need to do my job than Apple do. Apple could of course ask me...

And if anyone suggests that you can do all your expansion externally these days - even if all these devices were available as external Thunderbolt devices, which they're not - a smaller computer with half a dozen extra boxes and their power supplies all hanging off the Thunderbolt bus is in no way a more convenient or elegant solution than housing them inside the computer. My studio is enough of a tangled mess already thank you very much.


I've been an Mac owner and user since the late eighties. I still have the IIcx that I spent my life savings on in 1988 in the loft. If this European ban does turn out to be a subtle excuse for cancelling the Mac Pro line later on, then it's the end of a long happy road for me and Apple. I'm not confident that I can reliably do everything I do now on a Windows system. Plus I detest Windows. I only use Windows if someone holds a metaphorical gun to my head. I'd basically be sitting there in my studio all day, mixing with one hand and metaphorically blowing my own brains out with the other.

I hope Apple remember that it was the loyalty of professional creative arts users kept them in business thru all those difficult years. Some loyalty in return would be nice. After all, it's not as if they sell Mac Pros at a loss...
Stop worrying... This "ban" has nothing to do with what Apple will decide to do. If there is a new Mac Pro in the works (and I think there is), it has been in development for many months. This recent EU regulation will not make Apple scrap all their plans for a Mac Pro.

Based on your "I need..." list, I think you should just buy one of the Mac Pros that are currently for sale. This will take you several more years into the future, and then you will have time to see what Apple does regarding the Mac Pro. If the Mac Pro lives on, you can invest in one. If one is not released in 2013 (like Cook has promised), then you will have time to figure out how to transition to something else.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 01:06 PM   #146
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Last year Tim Cook said Apple would have a new MacPro coming this year. Not sure why folks are freaking out about the MacPro dying for good.
Last thing Tim Cook wants is to be perceived as a liar.
It will come, just wait a bit longer.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 01:07 PM   #147
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I think this is a bit overblown, it's not like these fans can chop your finger off. They generally run pretty slowly in a Mac Pro anyway.

The airflow is better and it's quieter without a grill infront because there's less turbulence. I'd rather have it without it.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 01:07 PM   #148
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If it is about the fan thing, I've gotten my hand hit by them a few times. Hell I've even been hit by a model airplane's prop (14K RPM, needed stitches). I've never seen any need for the government to intervene though...

Last edited by Codyak; Jan 31, 2013 at 01:13 PM.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 01:08 PM   #149
milo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gugy View Post
Last year Tim Cook said Apple would have a new MacPro coming this year.
Not exactly true, he said there would be something for that market. Maybe that's a new MP and maybe something different. And a new and different model may or may not meet the needs of those running MP now - we'll see if it does when it finally ships.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 01:08 PM   #150
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EU Over Regulation

The regulation preventing the sale of the Mac Pro because there is no guards for the fans is insane. Could they just tell Apple to put a sticker on the Mac Pro cautioning people not to stick their fingers in the fans and or I/O ports?


MACRUMORS: I HAVE EDITED MY POST SO AS NOT OFFEND THE EU OR PEOPLE LIVING THERE. PLEASE ALLOW.
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