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Old Jan 29, 2013, 11:54 AM   #376
0dev
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Originally Posted by Zerilos View Post
It looks comparatively priced to the N4. Apple should not go cheap.
Don't get me wrong I agree. Any phone designed to be sold at a low end price will be a crappy phone and Apple like to make sure everything has a good user experience. I'm just saying that this new iPhone would be mid range, not really low end.

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Originally Posted by jrswizzle View Post
Lol what does this mean? Because it doesn't have a retina display? Are we really so demanding?

For the price point, fitting a retina display with the current tech into the form factor they adopted would have been near impossible....

IGZO is the answer to this, but won't be available (in the quantities they'd need) until later this year.

Even without retina, the mini is a great little device. Having owned both the iPad 4th gen (which I'm considering selling) and the Nexus 7 (which I've already sold), the mini is my favorite - adding a retina display would just be gravy!
I actually think the screen for the iPad Mini isn't too bad, certainly not as bad as some people online make out, but I don't think the device is worth the price when compared to the much cheaper competition. The Nexus 7 is just a better tablet - better screen, better specs, better size - and it's half the price.

If the iPad Mini was the same price as the Nexus 7 then it'd be better value. And they could do that and still make a decent profit too; the £270 iPad Mini costs around £110 for Apple to make. If they sold it at £200 they'd still have a profit margin of almost 50%.

I just think it's lazy for Apple to take the innards of the iPad 2, stick them in something smaller, then charge almost £300 for it. They do it because they can get away with it, as the sales figures show, but the hardware they're selling is still overpriced and inferior to the competition.

I just hope if they do release an iPhone aimed at the mid range market, they put more effort into it than that.
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Old Jan 29, 2013, 12:08 PM   #377
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Originally Posted by 0dev View Post
I actually think the screen for the iPad Mini isn't too bad, certainly not as bad as some people online make out, but I don't think the device is worth the price when compared to the much cheaper competition. The Nexus 7 is just a better tablet - better screen, better specs, better size - and it's half the price.

If the iPad Mini was the same price as the Nexus 7 then it'd be better value. And they could do that and still make a decent profit too; the £270 iPad Mini costs around £110 for Apple to make. If they sold it at £200 they'd still have a profit margin of almost 50%.

I just think it's lazy for Apple to take the innards of the iPad 2, stick them in something smaller, then charge almost £300 for it. They do it because they can get away with it, as the sales figures show, but the hardware they're selling is still overpriced and inferior to the competition.

I just hope if they do release an iPhone aimed at the mid range market, they put more effort into it than that.
For me, the N7 fails in the lack of tablet optimized apps. What good is a higher resolution screen when most of my apps are just blown up phone apps anyways?

That was the main reason I sold my N7 and opted for a mini. Honestly (I've had this conversation numerous times) the mini has just as much, if not more in common with the 3rd generation iPad than it does with the 2nd gen. The CPUs are all the same, and the 'X' in the 3rd gen simply added GPU power and RAM to drive all those pixels.

Specs are great - but they don't tell anywhere near the whole story. And while the mini may be more costly (not twice as much, about 40% more), all Apple prodcuts carry the premium - to think it would be any different was a little naive, no disrespect.

Truth is, iPads have always done more with less and the mini is no exception. The form factor and feel are second-to-none (in my opinion) and the screen size is great.

Ultimately, it comes down to preference though and while I'll continue to enjoy my iPad mini, I'm sure you'll continue to enjoy your N7!

Cheers!
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Old Jan 29, 2013, 12:17 PM   #378
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Originally Posted by jrswizzle View Post
For me, the N7 fails in the lack of tablet optimized apps. What good is a higher resolution screen when most of my apps are just blown up phone apps anyways?
I'll give you that one, but it's only a short term problem. Developers are starting to catch up, and Android does already have a few really good tablet apps. Currents is awesome on the Nexus 7.

Quote:
That was the main reason I sold my N7 and opted for a mini. Honestly (I've had this conversation numerous times) the mini has just as much, if not more in common with the 3rd generation iPad than it does with the 2nd gen. The CPUs are all the same, and the 'X' in the 3rd gen simply added GPU power and RAM to drive all those pixels.
The specs are exact same as the iPad 2 aside from the smaller screen.

Quote:
Specs are great - but they don't tell anywhere near the whole story. And while the mini may be more costly (not twice as much, about 40% more), all Apple prodcuts carry the premium - to think it would be any different was a little naive, no disrespect.
Of course it carries the premium, but IMO it's not worth that premium. Apple products usually carry the premium because they have more to offer than the cheaper competition. In the case of the iPad Mini, and given the significance of the price difference, I don't think they've done that here. As I said, they've been lazy.

Quote:
Truth is, iPads have always done more with less and the mini is no exception. The form factor and feel are second-to-none (in my opinion) and the screen size is great.
The problem with "doing more with less" is it means your hardware will become obsolete very quickly. Which is good for Apple, because they can pay less for their components and make their users upgrade often, but not so great for customers.

Just wait until iOS 7 slows it down to a crawl because the hardware is already two years old and Apple restrict features from iOS 8 because you need to buy the iPad Mini 2S for those. Meanwhile the Nexus 7 will run the latest version of Android in its entirety just fine with the quad core processor.

Quote:
Ultimately, it comes down to preference though and while I'll continue to enjoy my iPad mini, I'm sure you'll continue to enjoy your N7!

Cheers!
If you're happy with the Mini that's great, enjoy it. But personally I just don't think it's worth the money.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 02:46 AM   #379
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I will tell you right now Apple better amp up its game hot and heavy. I love the iPhone, but after purchasing the Galaxy Note 2, Apple is way far behind. Might buy a 5s for the wife when it comes out, but unless Apple comes out with the "iphone math" with a 5' screen, I am sticking with Samsung products for a while.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 09:44 AM   #380
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Originally Posted by JHUFrank View Post
I will tell you right now Apple better amp up its game hot and heavy. I love the iPhone, but after purchasing the Galaxy Note 2, Apple is way far behind. Might buy a 5s for the wife when it comes out, but unless Apple comes out with the "iphone math" with a 5' screen, I am sticking with Samsung products for a while.
5" is too big, unless you're wearing XL or baggy pants. But I agree iPhone's 4" screen is way behind the competition. The GS2 hits the sweetspot.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 09:46 AM   #381
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I renewed my AT&T contract with a new 4S last night. I am in no hurry to get whatever new iPhone Apple has in the works and I am in no hurry to leave iPhone any time soon.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 03:34 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by 0dev View Post
Just wait until iOS 7 slows it down to a crawl because the hardware is already two years old and Apple restrict features from iOS 8 because you need to buy the iPad Mini 2S for those. Meanwhile the Nexus 7 will run the latest version of Android in its entirety just fine with the quad core processor.
What makes you so sure Google will limit future versions of Android so that they work on old hardware? iOS devices don't need quad core because a) most developers can't write for dual core let alone 4 cores, quad core only really benefits multitasking. b) Android is Java based and so inherently needs more processing power to achieve the same performance as natively compiled C code.

It's like a monster truck and a motorbike. The bike will be faster with a smaller engine because its lighter.

It's amazing how much rubbish people will spout just to justify their decision to buy whatever phone or tablet they own. With the first few iterations of the iPhone and iPad we had real innovation, now it seems to back to 'spec' wars now other manufactures are catching up, a bit like the processor wars of the 90's between Mac and PC, only this time it's screen size!
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 04:32 PM   #383
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Originally Posted by Random 995K View Post
Why not get a nexus 7 or ad mini then. Why compromise so much, do you really want to be holding a 6 inch device constantly let alone calling with it. Also I was referring to the 400 ppi and quad core statement because anything over 300 ppi won't make a difference atleast not a visible one without a microscope. ~300 is the most someone's eye can see. And yeah.... The s3 and most phones are quad core.... iPhone5 is faster than all of them in benchmarks and real life usage.
Not entirely true - depends on vision etcetera - I can see the difference between 1080p and 4k TVs for example. But it's obvious you have an issue with me wanting a non-Apple device (FYI, I have an iPad already - the larger screen is nice, but it's not stylus-capable).

The whole point of a Note is the Wacom digitizer.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 04:37 PM   #384
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Originally Posted by ManicMarc View Post
What makes you so sure Google will limit future versions of Android so that they work on old hardware? iOS devices don't need quad core because a) most developers can't write for dual core let alone 4 cores, quad core only really benefits multitasking.
Yeah and better multitasking would be useful for you too if Apple didn't stop you actually doing proper multitasking on iOS

Quote:
b) Android is Java based and so inherently needs more processing power to achieve the same performance as natively compiled C code.
But a lot of apps, such as graphics intensive games, are actually compiled with native C.

Quote:
It's like a monster truck and a motorbike. The bike will be faster with a smaller engine because its lighter.
I prefer to think of the iPad Mini as a Smart car and the Nexus 7 as an AMG Mercedes.

Quote:
It's amazing how much rubbish people will spout just to justify their decision to buy whatever phone or tablet they own.
Exactly my thoughts while reading your post.

Quote:
With the first few iterations of the iPhone and iPad we had real innovation
No, the first generations were innovative. The generations after just added what should have been there in the first place.

Quote:
now it seems to back to 'spec' wars now other manufactures are catching up, a bit like the processor wars of the 90's between Mac and PC, only this time it's screen size!
Well let's face it, iOS and Android are for different people, but the basic functionality is the same, and there's only so much Android phone makers can skin the **** out of everything, so they're basically forced to compete on hardware. This is good IMO - you buy the latest Android phone and you know you have cutting edge technology built into your handset. Apple on the other hand rests on the fact its products are more easy to use and its ecosystem is easy to get locked into and so they slack on the hardware. iPhones look and feel good, but the specs are what Android phones had last year.

The tables have turned. Apple is now playing catchup with Android.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 05:01 PM   #385
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Originally Posted by ManicMarc View Post
What makes you so sure Google will limit future versions of Android so that they work on old hardware? iOS devices don't need quad core because a) most developers can't write for dual core let alone 4 cores, quad core only really benefits multitasking. b) Android is Java based and so inherently needs more processing power to achieve the same performance as natively compiled C code[/B].

It's like a monster truck and a motorbike. The bike will be faster with a smaller engine because its lighter.

It's amazing how much rubbish people will spout just to justify their decision to buy whatever phone or tablet they own. With the first few iterations of the iPhone and iPad we had real innovation, now it seems to back to 'spec' wars now other manufactures are catching up, a bit like the processor wars of the 90's between Mac and PC, only this time it's screen size!
Android is linux-based not java. Talk about spouting rubbish.

Apps are usually written in java--and run fine in the dalvik vm because they are pre-optimized. But that does not preclude developing in C/C++. There is an NDK after-all.
http://developer.android.com/tools/sdk/ndk/index.html





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Old Jan 31, 2013, 06:48 PM   #386
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Someone has done the math and is theorizing that a 4.94" screen iPhone can keep the same constant resolution that Apple's ecosystem is trying to maintain.

http://www.marco.org/2013/01/31/iphone-plus-speculation

Interesting stuff.

The last guy that did the math and made a prediction said it would be 4", and he turned out to be right.

A 4.94" iPhone would land somewhere between the S3 and the Note II, but closer to the S3:


Last edited by onthecouchagain; Jan 31, 2013 at 06:55 PM.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 08:19 PM   #387
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Originally Posted by onthecouchagain View Post
Someone has done the math and is theorizing that a 4.94" screen iPhone can keep the same constant resolution that Apple's ecosystem is trying to maintain.

http://www.marco.org/2013/01/31/iphone-plus-speculation

Interesting stuff.

The last guy that did the math and made a prediction said it would be 4", and he turned out to be right.

A 4.94" iPhone would land somewhere between the S3 and the Note II, but closer to the S3:

Image
That could get me back to the iPhone. That and some much-needed iOS improvements.




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Old Jan 31, 2013, 08:46 PM   #388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onthecouchagain View Post
Someone has done the math and is theorizing that a 4.94" screen iPhone can keep the same constant resolution that Apple's ecosystem is trying to maintain.

http://www.marco.org/2013/01/31/iphone-plus-speculation

Interesting stuff.

The last guy that did the math and made a prediction said it would be 4", and he turned out to be right.

A 4.94" iPhone would land somewhere between the S3 and the Note II, but closer to the S3:

Image
That would suck. If they do make a larger iPhone, I hope they would increase the resolution too. I want more info on the screen, not everything larger.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 09:07 PM   #389
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That would suck. If they do make a larger iPhone, I hope they would increase the resolution too. I want more info on the screen, not everything larger.
Good point.

Apple's fear of fragmentation is dictating their resolution/screen sizes. I forgot who said it here, but someone said Apple's ironically cornered themselves into an awkward position by focusing so much on app resolution across their iOS devices.

Avoiding fragmentation comes at a price and limits Apple's hardware offerings.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 09:09 PM   #390
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That would suck. If they do make a larger iPhone, I hope they would increase the resolution too. I want more info on the screen, not everything larger.
It would have to have more pixels. They would never just increase the current iPhone 5--they would be laughed at for that.

Yes, developers will have to deal with another screen size. That's life.

What I think needs to change in iOS 7 is the universal app monster. That needs to be able to shed unneeded resources so it doesn't further needlessly balloon app sizes. As it is the same apps on Android are generally less than half--or less--the size of the iOS equivalent.




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Old Jan 31, 2013, 09:24 PM   #391
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Originally Posted by Brien View Post
Not entirely true - depends on vision etcetera - I can see the difference between 1080p and 4k TVs for example. But it's obvious you have an issue with me wanting a non-Apple device (FYI, I have an iPad already - the larger screen is nice, but it's not stylus-capable).

The whole point of a Note is the Wacom digitizer.
20/20 vision cannot distinguish pixels past a certain density. Unless you are holding the phone an inch from your eyes, ~300 ppi is when you will be unable to distinguish pixels from a normal viewing distance for a phone. So either you have better vision than perfect vision or you hold your phone up to your nose. And as for 4K TVs its been proven that someone with 20/20 vision, at 10 feet away (~3 metres) requires an 80 inch tv... Have fun with that. Idc what device you get, I'm just trying to educate you. If you want a note for the stylus go ahead. I'm just helping you see the pointlessness ina screen with 400 ppi.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 12:44 AM   #392
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I'm starting to think this will be my last iPhone unless there are dramatic changes to iPhone 6.

The UI has become extremely stale and I still can't do simple ****ing things like read and reply to a text message without exiting the app. Speaking of apps, iPhone multitasking is still half assed and not real multitasking.. let's not get into the Maps fiasco..

Hardware wise, it's nice to look at and feel, but we still don't have a bigger screen, the battery, especially on the 5, is garbage. No NFC, no innovation...

In about 2-3 months all the competitors will be ahead of iPhone and we'll still be waiting for the once a year minimal upgrade.
I agree.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 01:06 AM   #393
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20/20 vision cannot distinguish pixels past a certain density. Unless you are holding the phone an inch from your eyes, ~300 ppi is when you will be unable to distinguish pixels from a normal viewing distance for a phone. So either you have better vision than perfect vision or you hold your phone up to your nose. And as for 4K TVs its been proven that someone with 20/20 vision, at 10 feet away (~3 metres) requires an 80 inch tv... Have fun with that. Idc what device you get, I'm just trying to educate you. If you want a note for the stylus go ahead. I'm just helping you see the pointlessness ina screen with 400 ppi.
Dude, who cares? This wasn't even about ppi.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 01:16 AM   #394
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Originally Posted by Random 995K View Post
20/20 vision cannot distinguish pixels past a certain density. Unless you are holding the phone an inch from your eyes, ~300 ppi is when you will be unable to distinguish pixels from a normal viewing distance for a phone. So either you have better vision than perfect vision or you hold your phone up to your nose. And as for 4K TVs its been proven that someone with 20/20 vision, at 10 feet away (~3 metres) requires an 80 inch tv... Have fun with that. Idc what device you get, I'm just trying to educate you. If you want a note for the stylus go ahead. I'm just helping you see the pointlessness ina screen with 400 ppi.
Just because you can't distinguish the pixels doesn't mean you won't notice the added details.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 01:41 AM   #395
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If apple doesn't bring out anything thing Innovating I'm jumping ship. Been a Apple Fan Boy “iSheep” for over 5 years now. Tired of the same IU since the original iPhone.

The Blackberry z10 is looking petty nice right now. They might be getting my money
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 01:57 AM   #396
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The specs are exact same as the iPad 2 aside from the smaller screen.
That's not true.

http://www.apple.com/uk/ipad/compare/

The Mini has Bluetooth 4.0, the 2 has Bluetooth 2.1.
The Mini has the same camera as the 4 (I think; the spec list is the same at least) and supports FaceTime HD. The iPad 2's camera is old and outdated.
The Mini supports LTE; the 2 does not.
The Mini supports 1080p video recording; the 2 does not.
The Mini uses the lightning connector; the 2 does not.
The Mini uses a nano-SIM; the 2 does not.

As stated, the Mini is closer to the 3 than the 2. Pretty much the only things it shares with the 2 are processor and screen resolution.


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Of course it carries the premium, but IMO it's not worth that premium. Apple products usually carry the premium because they have more to offer than the cheaper competition. In the case of the iPad Mini, and given the significance of the price difference, I don't think they've done that here. As I said, they've been lazy.
In terms of raw features iOS has been behind Android for a long time; at least a number of years. Apple products carry a premium because they're Apple products. People like the design, ecosystem, etc.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 04:46 AM   #397
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Yeah and better multitasking would be useful for you too if Apple didn't stop you actually doing proper multitasking on iOS
What do people like to do on their phones simultaneously? I see this said a lot but if I'm writing a text, I'm writing a text, same with email, web browsing, and when I'm using it as a phone. I'm just curious about this particular stance.

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Originally Posted by 0dev View Post
Well let's face it, iOS and Android are for different people, but the basic functionality is the same, and there's only so much Android phone makers can skin the **** out of everything, so they're basically forced to compete on hardware. This is good IMO - you buy the latest Android phone and you know you have cutting edge technology built into your handset. Apple on the other hand rests on the fact its products are more easy to use and its ecosystem is easy to get locked into and so they slack on the hardware. iPhones look and feel good, but the specs are what Android phones had last year.

The tables have turned. Apple is now playing catchup with Android.
They are for different people and you are right Android do now compete on hardware between their many manufacturers. The problem with this is the software is forced to compete and often people like myself were stuck on an 18 month contract with a phone that was out of date compared to the software it was running. I had Android ice cream sandwich on a HTC earlier last year and it completely screwed the phone up. You'd swipe and it was so laggy it was frustrating to use. It looked nice and I enjoyed its features but unfortunately my device was suddenly out of date. The flagship HTC from the previous year had suddenly expired and I hated the fact I was then forced to yet another model in the hope I would be up to date.

The thing I like about the iPhone is the software is designed purely for that model. Sure it lacks some of the features of Android but it does the things I need it to and so far more reliably. I wouldn't rule out going back to Android in the future, but right now I'm glad I switched.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 06:02 AM   #398
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Originally Posted by onthecouchagain View Post
Someone has done the math and is theorizing that a 4.94" screen iPhone can keep the same constant resolution that Apple's ecosystem is trying to maintain.

http://www.marco.org/2013/01/31/iphone-plus-speculation

Interesting stuff.

The last guy that did the math and made a prediction said it would be 4", and he turned out to be right.

A 4.94" iPhone would land somewhere between the S3 and the Note II, but closer to the S3:

Image

If the iPhone is ever done that size I could move back to it within an instant, I still think that we are 18 months away from it though.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 08:14 AM   #399
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What do people like to do on their phones simultaneously? I see this said a lot but if I'm writing a text, I'm writing a text, same with email, web browsing, and when I'm using it as a phone. I'm just curious about this particular stance.
Samsung's multiview feature is a good example of true multitasking put to good use. You can watch videos while you send emails and texts for example.

And on my Android phone my apps can sync all the latest data in the background. For example, I can set Twitter to check for new tweets every 20 minutes. iOS emulates this with push notifications but that only alerts you about new mentions, it doesn't actually refresh your feed until you open the app.

Quote:
They are for different people and you are right Android do now compete on hardware between their many manufacturers. The problem with this is the software is forced to compete and often people like myself were stuck on an 18 month contract with a phone that was out of date compared to the software it was running. I had Android ice cream sandwich on a HTC earlier last year and it completely screwed the phone up. You'd swipe and it was so laggy it was frustrating to use. It looked nice and I enjoyed its features but unfortunately my device was suddenly out of date. The flagship HTC from the previous year had suddenly expired and I hated the fact I was then forced to yet another model in the hope I would be up to date.
Oh yeah HTC is terrible and they're very sloppy with their updates. But HTC's phones aren't representative of all Android devices. Try out a Samsung, there's a reason they're overtaking the iPhone, and they're not too bad with their updates these days either. I mean you won't get them as soon as new versions of Android are released but they update their flagships fairly quickly and the updates themselves don't break your phone. Or if updates are super important and you don't like the manufacturer skinning, get a Nexus. That's the great thing about Android: there's a wide range of choice.

Quote:
The thing I like about the iPhone is the software is designed purely for that model. Sure it lacks some of the features of Android but it does the things I need it to and so far more reliably. I wouldn't rule out going back to Android in the future, but right now I'm glad I switched.
Neither is perfect. I've had a few problems with iPhones and iOS has a fair share of bugs - just look at all the different clock bugs that pop up every year. And my iPhone 4, despite me having done a clean restore recently, will often slow to a crawl and sometimes the whole system will freeze up.

My Nexus 7 on the other hand has never frozen up once and it's been way more reliable than my iPhone.

If you get a good Android phone you will have a reliable device. My advice is to just stay away from HTC and if you do get back into Android again, get either a Nexus or a Samsung.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 08:25 AM   #400
onthecouchagain
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Originally Posted by 0dev View Post
Samsung's multiview feature is a good example of true multitasking put to good use. You can watch videos while you send emails and texts for example.

And on my Android phone my apps can sync all the latest data in the background. For example, I can set Twitter to check for new tweets every 20 minutes. iOS emulates this with push notifications but that only alerts you about new mentions, it doesn't actually refresh your feed until you open the app.



Oh yeah HTC is terrible and they're very sloppy with their updates. But HTC's phones aren't representative of all Android devices. Try out a Samsung, there's a reason they're overtaking the iPhone, and they're not too bad with their updates these days either. I mean you won't get them as soon as new versions of Android are released but they update their flagships fairly quickly and the updates themselves don't break your phone. Or if updates are super important and you don't like the manufacturer skinning, get a Nexus. That's the great thing about Android: there's a wide range of choice.



Neither is perfect. I've had a few problems with iPhones and iOS has a fair share of bugs - just look at all the different clock bugs that pop up every year. And my iPhone 4, despite me having done a clean restore recently, will often slow to a crawl and sometimes the whole system will freeze up.

My Nexus 7 on the other hand has never frozen up once and it's been way more reliable than my iPhone.

If you get a good Android phone you will have a reliable device. My advice is to just stay away from HTC and if you do get back into Android again, get either a Nexus or a Samsung.
It's really amazing how stable android has become. Can't remember the last time had to do a reboot.
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