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Old Jan 31, 2013, 04:03 PM   #101
Oletros
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Originally Posted by JackieTreehorn View Post
McDonald's has higher share of visitors than Bottom line. Samsung is Britney and McDonald's, Apple is Callas and El Bulli.
When people will stop making those absurd analogies?
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 04:10 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by jrswizzle View Post
No but the fact you are saying "Samsung will probably have 30% marketshare" is what I was referring to. Comparing the tablet marketplace to the smartphone marketplace is probably the biggest mistake you can make. You have entirely different subsets of consumers buying each device and a much wider range of pricing.

Also, I still hold that the Nexus 10 had a big part in Samsung's tablet success this year - do we know if they will be tapped for another Nexus tablet? No. What if the N10 was an Asus machine?

My point is, even at its simplest, you can't use year-over-year numbers to predict future success. Samsung was able to gain the dominant smartphone marketshare, in large part to their throwing everything at the wall to see what stuck. While they have since refined their strategy, they didn't start that way in tablets - nor could they have.

I'm not saying Samsung won't grow - but no tablet has shown any signs of truly competing with the iPad (with the Nexus 10/7 being the top on the android side imo) - and with the Surface Pro being released and other companies like Acer, Amazon and Asus continuing to refine their tablet strategies - the race for 2nd in the tablet market is a lot more crowded than in smartphones.
There was a time when no other smart phones were competing with the iPhone.

Android is maturing while iOS is stuck.
One rather important thing for a tablet OS, when will iOS get multiple user accounts? A tablet isn't personal like the smart phone.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrswizzle View Post
Percentage growth is incredibly deceiving - Apple sold roughly 7 million MORE tablets than they did last year, compared to Samsung's growth of roughly 5 million units.

I could take a $1 company and grow it to $10 and have 1000% growth year over year. Meanwhile, Billy Bob has a $1 billion company he takes to $2 billion and his growth is only 100%......yet he made a crap ton more than I did....
You should really talk about deceiving...
The difference in growth between Apple and Samsung is 1.7 million, which in no way is close to your example of $1->$10 and $1 billion->$2 billion.

Also, between 2011Q3 and 2012Q3, Samsung's growth in tablets was 1 million more than Apple's growth.

Edit: In number of more tablets sold, Samsung's growth was 77% of Apple's growth, this while only selling 34% of the number of tablets Apple sold. That really tells quite the picture, doesn't it?

Last edited by AaronEdwards; Jan 31, 2013 at 04:15 PM.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 04:13 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by AaronEdwards View Post
There was a time when no other smart phones were competing with the iPhone.

Android is maturing while iOS is stuck.
One rather important thing for a tablet OS, when will iOS get multiple user accounts? A tablet isn't personal like the smart phone.

----------



You should really talk about deceiving...
The difference in growth between Apple and Samsung is 1.7 million, which in no way is close to your example of $1->$10 and $1 billion->$2 billion.

Also, between 2011Q3 and 2012Q3, Samsung's growth in tablets was 1 million more than Apple's growth.
This is a matter of opinion in most cases. I don't stare at my home screen - for me, the apps are where the content lies and that's (one of the reasons) why I still prefer iOS to Android - especially on a tablet.

Proves my point - you can't take the data you are taking and predict that Samsung's marketshare will increase to 30% by Q4 2013. Especially when Samsung's marketshare DECRESED Q3 - Q4 2012.....

Like I said - no way these numbers prove anything really.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 04:14 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by AaronEdwards View Post
One rather important thing for a tablet OS, when will iOS get multiple user accounts? A tablet isn't personal like the smart phone.
Really? Try touching my mini without my permission and see how long it takes for you to recant that statement. ;-)

On a serious note, I wonder if Apple thinks that allowing multiple user accounts in iOS might translate into fewer tablet sales, because they want us to believe the tablet is just as personal an item as our phones are. What do you think?
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 04:17 PM   #105
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Um...the real factual information is that El Bulli's (Apple) is not only taking in the biggest profits, it's also selling more then McDonalds (Samsung)
El Bulli actually closed 2 years ago due to incurring huge losses
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 04:18 PM   #106
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Let me get this straight, when Apple had like 97% market share it was because they were one of the few players in the market, but when they have 46 percent, it's not because there's so many players in the market?

Marketshare is and always will be a useless statistic. It was useless when Apple had it, and its useless now when Apple still has it.

Apple probably sold as many ipads in one qtr than tablets Samsung will sell all year.

This article is good for hits but a joke by any other standard.

Apple may be threatened in the smartphone market by others, but the tablet market is theirs and its not going anywhere anytime soon.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 04:18 PM   #107
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Apple going below 50% market share needs to be a serious concern.

Tablets are now a commodity, not a luxury, and prices need to be adjust to reflect that reality.

Even though even Android uses lament at the low quality build of the Nexus and Fires, they are incredibly popular. To many, it is "good enough" for them.

Drop the price enough to increase demand, enough to maintain a 51% market share. Simple enough.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 04:26 PM   #108
AaronEdwards
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrswizzle View Post
This is a matter of opinion in most cases. I don't stare at my home screen - for me, the apps are where the content lies and that's (one of the reasons) why I still prefer iOS to Android - especially on a tablet.

Proves my point - you can't take the data you are taking and predict that Samsung's marketshare will increase to 30% by Q4 2013. Especially when Samsung's marketshare DECRESED Q3 - Q4 2012.....

Like I said - no way these numbers prove anything really.
Like I wrote before, the change is most likely due to Apple caving in and releasing a smaller tablet. The mini helped, but that's a temporary change.

Sure, if Apple is able to release a new innovative iPad, then things may turn out different than what's happened to the iPhone. But Android is getting closer and closer, and I don't see a game changer from Apple.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 04:28 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by PracticalMac View Post
Apple going below 50% market share needs to be a serious concern.

Tablets are now a commodity, not a luxury, and prices need to be adjust to reflect that reality.

Even though even Android uses lament at the low quality build of the Nexus and Fires, they are incredibly popular. To many, it is "good enough" for them.

Drop the price enough to increase demand, enough to maintain a 51% market share. Simple enough.
Not that this is a good analogy but it reminds me of Dell in the late 80s and early 90s. Really nice boxes and they commanded a price premium and did it not matter. With commoditization of the PC industry, we know how that turned out...
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 04:28 PM   #110
AaronEdwards
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Originally Posted by WilliamLondon View Post
Really? Try touching my mini without my permission and see how long it takes for you to recant that statement. ;-)

On a serious note, I wonder if Apple thinks that allowing multiple user accounts in iOS might translate into fewer tablet sales, because they want us to believe the tablet is just as personal an item as our phones are. What do you think?
I agree about Apple's motives.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 04:49 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post
I get sick of hearing about how Apple is always losing market share to Android. It's like hearing how Porsche is getting beaten to death by Toyota, Mitsubishi and Nissan. Apple's iPads are the only devices using iOS while Android tablets are made by easily dozens of companies of all sizes at every price point imaginable.
Your mistake is to compare Apple's products to those made by Porsche.

Apple products are like Toyotas. The iPhone is positioned in the market in the exact same sweet spot as the Camry.

Both the iPhone and the Camry are made for the masses. They are both reliable, competent, easy to use and made for non-enthusiasts. Both are high quality, with excellent fit and finish. Both have all the regular options/accessories/features, but neither has any cutting edge stuff of interest only to niche audiences. Both cost more than some other products in their class.

And so the current news is equivalent to news that Toyota is losing market share to Honda. Apple is nothing like Porsche and Jaguar and Ferrari in positioning its products. Apple sells to the same soccer moms and suburban dads who buy the Toyota Camry.

Get over it. Reality can be your friend.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 04:53 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by yakapo View Post
Samsung had a 260% increase in sales? Impressive.
It's increase is 260% in SHIPMENTS - not sales. So they made a lot more last quarter than the period before. Shipment is NOT = Sales. The more crap you make doesn't make it any less crappier...
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 04:57 PM   #113
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I need to find this magical warehouse where non-Apple tablets/phones go to, they must be super stocked!
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 05:01 PM   #114
AaronEdwards
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Originally Posted by uknowimright View Post
I need to find this magical warehouse where non-Apple tablets/phones go to, they must be super stocked!
No, it's a landfill!
As I understand it, the landfill is next to the one filled with Atari 2600 E.T. games!



Not sure what Samsung's business strategy is here. They ship more and more of their tablets while they aren't selling any of them. Probably some sort of tax scheme!
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 05:02 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post
I saw Samsung tablets sitting on Costco shelves.
I saw iPhones sitting on Mall*Wart shelves.

Last edited by iGrip; Jan 31, 2013 at 06:04 PM.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 05:09 PM   #116
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Where are all those samsung tablets ? I never saw a single one.

Only iPads and kindles...
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 05:11 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post
So what is the result of Android having all that market share?

"Its the ecosystem, stupid."

Apple used to have a 5 year lead over all other cellphone manufacturers. But that was somewhat more than 5 years ago.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 05:21 PM   #118
Oletros
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Originally Posted by Hammerofthegods View Post
It's increase is 260% in SHIPMENTS - not sales. So they made a lot more last quarter than the period before. Shipment is NOT = Sales. The more crap you make doesn't make it any less crappier...
Can you explain how a company can increase quarter after quarter its shipments and not sell them? Is there a warehouse filled with smartphones, tablets, etc?

And exactly what is crap?
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 05:43 PM   #119
Michael Scrip
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Originally Posted by iGrip View Post

"Its the ecosystem, stupid."
Hmmmm.... so since Android has 5 TIMES the smartphone market share of the iPhone.... developers must prefer Android, right?

Not that I've seen.

Ah... so maybe accessory makers are now throwing themselves at Android's 75% market share.

I haven't seen that either... far from it actually.

Ok... well then the Google Play Music Store must the be largest retailer of online music. With Android phones having such a HUGE share of the market... they must be buying more music.

Nope.

Well crap. How about movies? There are zillions of Android devices out there. They gotta be renting more movies.

Not even close. iTunes has 45% of the online rental market... with Amazon a distant 18%... (Google isn't even listed)


What was that about Android's ecosystem? And how their HUGE market share is somehow a benefit?
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 05:57 PM   #120
PracticalMac
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Originally Posted by Peterg2 View Post
Not that this is a good analogy but it reminds me of Dell in the late 80s and early 90s. Really nice boxes and they commanded a price premium and did it not matter. With commoditization of the PC industry, we know how that turned out...
Not saying Apple should undercut, but find a price point that is attractive.

Success of iPad mini seems to be more then just hardware. Lower end hardware, yet cant make enough of them (yet)
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 06:08 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oletros View Post
Can you explain how a company can increase quarter after quarter its shipments and not sell them? Is there a warehouse filled with smartphones, tablets, etc?

And exactly what is crap?
I think he's saying that stuff with the Android OS is crap. Therefore, he doesn't care that Android stuff is killing iOS stuff in most people's hearts and minds.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 06:18 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post
Hmmmm.... so since Android has 5 TIMES the smartphone market share of the iPhone.... developers must prefer Android, right?

Not that I've seen.

Ah... so maybe accessory makers are now throwing themselves at Android's 75% market share.

I haven't seen that either... far from it actually.

Ok... well then the Google Play Music Store must the be largest retailer of online music. With Android phones having such a HUGE share of the market... they must be buying more music.

Nope.

Well crap. How about movies? There are zillions of Android devices out there. They gotta be renting more movies.

Not even close. iTunes has 45% of the online rental market... with Amazon a distant 18%... (Google isn't even listed)


What was that about Android's ecosystem? And how their HUGE market share is somehow a benefit?
Everyone, including the android users who swear by it, know that market share means nothing. It's just a talking point for them.

Great post!
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 06:21 PM   #123
Michael Scrip
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Originally Posted by cappadonna View Post

Everyone, including the android users who swear by it, know that market share means nothing. It's just a talking point for them.

Great post!
Thanks!
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 06:26 PM   #124
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IDC exaggerating Samsung's performance again in their estimates.

I went to Disneyland for New Years and people were standing in line for rides playing with iPads.

I never see a Galaxy Tab. In fact, the last time I saw a Galaxy Tab that was not on a store shelf or being offered as a free promotion with a Samsung TV was over a year ago.

There is no way Galaxy Tab is out-selling the Nexus 7 or Amazon Kindle Fire. These estimates for Samsung are insanely high.
These are WORLDWIDE sales figures. Trying thinking outside of the USA for a change. Do you have any idea how strong Samsung is in east Asia, particularly in their home market of South Korea which accounts for a significant proportion of their worldwide figures? America does not equal the world (even though this is hard for a few egocentric Americans to understand). What you saw at Disneyland means nothing.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 06:30 PM   #125
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Not all bad.
They managed to sell 7.4 million more ipads than they did the year before.
15.5 vs 22.9 million.

There are so many low cost cheap tablets is it any surprise that market share has slipped?
I think a lot of people getting the very low cost tablets end up burnt and then would go onto buy something better.
eg my bro bought a netbook and ended up throwing it in the bin after 2 months and bought a macbook air.
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