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Old Jan 31, 2013, 06:57 PM   #326
Mackan
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I suppose the regulation is that you are not allowed so sell ridiculously overpriced computers with very outdated hardware?
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 07:08 PM   #327
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The same thing happened to Apple's beautiful iSight camera and it ended up being amalgamated into the Cinema Display .... oh wait ....

At least this will push the Mac Pro agenda for Apple, but one can't help feeling that in the Era of Jobs, he would be foaming at the mouth roaring around Apple campus, screaming "SHIP IT!" kicking the Mac Pro team up the arse as he went -

But in the mellow Era of Cook, all they'll get is a warm congratulation as to how well they're performing under incredible pressure and scrutiny, and at most get a little sassy sideways glance over his spectacles.

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Old Jan 31, 2013, 07:13 PM   #328
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Originally Posted by violst View Post
I don't know why we are still debating the worth of the Mac Pro?

Didn't people see my earlier post where Mac Pro was declaired King.

He has a crown, cape and gold necklace to prove it, look.
He's looking more like a Las Vegas drag queen in that outfit ;-)
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 07:29 PM   #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iZac View Post
The same thing happened to Apple's beautiful iSight camera and it ended up being amalgamated into the Cinema Display .... oh wait ....

At least this will push the Mac Pro agenda for Apple, but one can't feeling that in the Era of Jobs, he would be foaming at the mouth roaring around Apple campus, screaming "SHIP IT!" kicking the Mac Pro team up the arse as he went -

But in the mellow Era of Cook, all they'll get is a warm congratulation as to how well they're performing under incredible pressure and scrutiny, and at most get a little sassy sideways glance over his spectacles.
I think it's more likely that Jobs was the one who re-allocated resources away from it. I doubt a mac pro update requires a large team unless they're making major design changes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Krazy Bill View Post
Are you EU folks that inept!?!?

Attention everyone in the UK: DO NOT stick your fingers into moving fan blades. It will hurt!

P.S. God save the Queen and all that other crap.

Cheers.
Perhaps I'll attempt to dig up the actual regulation text later. It could be an edge case. We don't really know what the actual regulation states. Also keep in mind that the last major revision was 2009 with 2010 being a revision B basic drop in and firmware tweak upgrade. Due to the extended cycle, it may be that this regulation was written in quite some time ago and this merely represents a comply by date.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 07:32 PM   #330
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Originally Posted by MacRumorUser View Post
He's looking more like a Las Vegas drag queen in that outfit ;-)
You might be right, but King or Queen he/she is still royalty in my eyes.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 07:53 PM   #331
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Originally Posted by Glassed Silver View Post
I can relate to a lot of this.
Same here. I have been using apple computers since the Apple ][ days. Not the //e or the //+, the ][. The computer I took to college, grad school, and that my parents finally had to pay to be disposed of because it simply would not die.

I want to get a pro not because I need one for my job but because it is the only mac out there that will allow me to change out components without performing major surgery or trucking it to an apple store. Not to mention that some of the mods I want to do right away (like add a Viper SSD) are not even an option on the iMac unless I do it externally.

Besides, it would make one great gaming box!
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 08:04 PM   #332
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Originally Posted by manu chao View Post
There are enough reasonable people who disagree with your interpretation. The clarification by Apple PR was only to make it clear that the iMacs would be updated in 2012 and not in 2013.
Did you even read the source I linked that was reported here on Macrumors? The next sentence was:

"The company had no comment about the iMac, ... "

So they said nothing about 2012 or 2013 or anything else about the iMac. Cook said nothing about the iMac. Apple PR said nothing about the iMac. The only reason the iMac was in the equation at all is because non Apple folks blew tons of smoke and FUD about the iMac being weaved in out of thin air.

The "not recognizable as a Mac Pro" hype has exactly the same non-Apple foundation. So yeah it is FUD.


Quote:
They did not say what shape or form the update to the Mac Pro would have.
Apple's corporate policy is that they don't talk about upcoming products. There is no statement about the Mac mini, MBA , MBP , iMac , none of the others. The absence of a statement means nothing one way or the other about the Mac Pro.


[quote]
But does daisy-chaining of displays work with DVI, HDMI or DP? It only does with DP and I have not seen it implemented very often.[quote]

Thunderbolt isn't implemented very often either. So your point is? Yes daisy chaining DisplayPort requires v1.2. Thunderbolt doesn't even handle 1.2 so yeah it is relatively new. So is Thunderbolt.

Additionally, a card with two video ports (e.g., two DisplayPort ) doesn't really have a high need for daisy chaining. Two monitors still requires two cables. It is only really in >3-4 range that it has much higher traction. Thunderbolt maxes out at 2.

Thunderbolt has daisy chaining properties far more because you don't want to suppress the flexibility of PCI-e traffic to leverage the video output that has been multiplexed. It isn't really trying to solve the mutiple monitor problem at all. Used exclusively as two output sockets ( as likely on a Mac Pro sized box) there is little to no difference from two output sockets on a current PCI-e graphics card.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 08:25 PM   #333
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Absolutely ridiculous Apple has let it slide this far, WTF is going with Apple now, are their engineers spread so thing they can fit in a standard motherboard ram and CPU!! every 16 year old can build a PC ina few hours surley they could have updated the Mac Pro over the last 2 years..
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 08:29 PM   #334
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To power those old MacPros, you have to feed it coal through a little hopper on the side, right?
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 09:04 PM   #335
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As of March 1, 2013, Apple will no longer sell Mac Pro in EU, EU candidate and EFTA countries because these systems are too old, outdated, slow and overpriced it's almost criminal, therefore not compliant with Amendment 1 of regulation IEC 60950-1, Second Edition which becomes effective on this date. Apple resellers can continue to sell any remaining inventory of Mac Pro after March 1 at a 70% discount with Cinema Display included.

Apple will take final orders for Mac Pro from resellers up until February 18th for shipment before March 1, 2013.

Countries outside of the EU are not impacted and Mac Pro will continue to be available in those areas. But it is strongly recommended to delay your purchase plan until further notice.

/FIXED
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 09:12 PM   #336
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Originally Posted by iZac View Post
The same thing happened to Apple's beautiful iSight camera and it ended up being amalgamated into the Cinema Display .... oh wait ....

At least this will push the Mac Pro agenda for Apple, but one can't feeling that in the Era of Jobs, he would be foaming at the mouth roaring around Apple campus, screaming "SHIP IT!" kicking the Mac Pro team up the arse as he went -

But in the mellow Era of Cook, all they'll get is a warm congratulation as to how well they're performing under incredible pressure and scrutiny, and at most get a little sassy sideways glance over his spectacles.
I get the sense that the reason we don't have a Mac Pro yet is because of Jobs. The Mac Pro sat around without major updates far longer under Jobs's watch. I think Tim Cook has shown that he is listening to users, and he is willing to respond to concerns. Only time will tell if that is a good thing!
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 09:31 PM   #337
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Originally Posted by basesloaded190 View Post
You realize this is something Apple has no control over right? This is a government regulation.
Apple should take control over this. If other PC manufacturers can comply to these regulations, it shouldn't be that difficult.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 10:14 PM   #338
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 10:29 PM   #339
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Originally Posted by AZREOSpecialist View Post
A company sitting on over $130B in cash and who just posted record year-over-year sales and profits (over $13B) should be ashamed of themselves for not updating their flagship product. You can't tell me that Apple hasn't made a conscious decision to let this product die. Apple is such a large company and they can't update the Mac Pro to current industry specs for over two years? Something doesn't sound right...
People are in denial. Apple is going to cancel the Mac Pro and this is the first step. It's not like Apple didn't know of these changes. It would have released an update by now if it was going to ever.

Wake up people, the Mac Pro is DEAD.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 10:38 PM   #340
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Originally Posted by iSayuSay View Post
As of March 1, 2013, Apple will no longer sell Mac Pro in EU, EU candidate and EFTA countries because these systems are too old, outdated, slow and overpriced it's almost criminal, therefore...
Countries outside of the EU are not impacted and Mac Pro will continue to be available in those areas. But it is strongly recommended to delay your purchase plan until further notice.

/FIXED
And yet, my new (from the refurbished store) Mac Pro has all the features and power I need to work as a professional photographer. While not the cheapest computer, Apple's other offerings would have cost me as much (if not more) after I had purchased the upgrades and other bits to make them at all useful to me, and they still would not fulfilled all the requirements I need - and that the Mac Pro offers.

This Mac Pro will last me 4 years at a minimum. For what I will get on the resale, plus the resale value of the 2008 Mac Pro that this new one replaced, I will be able to buy whatever Apple is offering in 2016. So, basically - 3 MacPros for the price of two. That is not overpriced. That is an investment in my professional career that is paying off in the long-term.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 10:58 PM   #341
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My spec is Apple will update the case (and fans) sooner rather than later and give the new Pro USB3 and TB but will have to wait for the latest Pro CPUs until Intel releases them in the 2nd half.

But will people buy a 'new' Mac Pro with older but still current CPUs until the next gen ones are released?
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 10:58 PM   #342
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Originally Posted by snberk103 View Post
And yet, my new (from the refurbished store) Mac Pro has all the features and power I need to work as a professional photographer. While not the cheapest computer, Apple's other offerings would have cost me as much (if not more) after I had purchased the upgrades and other bits to make them at all useful to me, and they still would not fulfilled all the requirements I need - and that the Mac Pro offers.

This Mac Pro will last me 4 years at a minimum. For what I will get on the resale, plus the resale value of the 2008 Mac Pro that this new one replaced, I will be able to buy whatever Apple is offering in 2016. So, basically - 3 MacPros for the price of two. That is not overpriced. That is an investment in my professional career that is paying off in the long-term.
Unless you're going after systems with > 4 core, MacPro is practically a horrible deal.
A quad MP costs $2500, even with a $2000 refurbished deal, you get a system contains an old Xeon, a mere Radeon 5770/5870, USB 2.0, no Thunderbolt, not even SATA III. Means you can't even get a full transfer speed with full SSD. It is hardly capable and a bad investment for 2013.
Maxxed out 2012 iMac will always be a better deal. Cost roughly the same and it comes with the monitor, cheaper AppleCare plan, practically better CPU/GPU, also it has USB 3.0 and Thunderbolt for much faster interface.

Hey I love MacPro for being a real desktop. But Apple certainly want it dead, collecting dust in the corner of the Apple Store.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 11:14 PM   #343
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^simply buy a refurb/used quad Mac Pro and add a Hex Xeon and bam you got one nice fast Mac that beats any crap un upgradable iMac.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 11:52 PM   #344
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^simply buy a refurb/used quad Mac Pro and add a Hex Xeon and bam you got one nice fast Mac that beats any crap un upgradable iMac.
Yep anyone could get a used Nehalem quad MP and outperform any iMac by:

1. Upgrade to hexcore CPU
2. Upgrade to Radeon 7970 or GTX680. Oh yes I don't get the bootscreen
3. Get more expensive ECC RAM sticks
4. Another $$ for a decent display
5. Get a PCI-e SSD since it has no SATA III
6. Get a USB 3.0 pci card

...Yada yada yada.. Hmm already fork out almost $5000 for all the nifty bits

99. OR might as well build a nice Hackintosh with all the latest tech since I have to do all the upgrades by myself anyway.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 12:25 AM   #345
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Originally Posted by iSayuSay View Post
Unless you're going after systems with > 4 core, MacPro is practically a horrible deal.
A quad MP costs $2500, even with a $2000 refurbished deal, you get a system contains an old Xeon, a mere Radeon 5770/5870, USB 2.0, no Thunderbolt, not even SATA III. Means you can't even get a full transfer speed with full SSD. It is hardly capable and a bad investment for 2013.
Maxxed out 2012 iMac will always be a better deal. Cost roughly the same and it comes with the monitor, cheaper AppleCare plan, practically better CPU/GPU, also it has USB 3.0 and Thunderbolt for much faster interface.

Hey I love MacPro for being a real desktop. But Apple certainly want it dead, collecting dust in the corner of the Apple Store.
I have 6 cores on this Mac Pro... And for 95% of the time the system is waiting for me. On those rare occasions I actually make my system work hard the "old" Xeons probably waste, oh, say 30 seconds to maybe a minute at most. I've got 16GB of RAM - which I can and will eventually upgrade - though maybe not up to the 32GB stated max. Often the stated max is Apple's "we won't support more, but - go ahead - it works."

I can drive up to 3 professional monitors on this Mac Pro out of the box. I won't need them, but I can add another video card to drive more monitors.

I already have several terabytes of internal HDDs for data storage, and have room for more as I need them. I haven't yet played with an SSD since the price per GB is still dropping, but I'll only need one of them. It's the massive amount of internal storage I need. I don't really see a big advantage to SSD. My system stays on for days, weeks at a time so there is no boot time. I generally keep most of my applications open all the time too, so there is no lag time there. The time it takes to load a dozen photos into Lightroom is about 2 or 3 sips of coffee. I can live with that.

I don't need USB3 since I'm already invested in FW800 peripherals. At the moment I don't actually have anything that uses USB3. But that is just a cheap card that needs inserting when that changes.

For Photoshop work the basic GPU is already overkill. I'd rather use the money saved on camera gear.

I use both ethernet ports on the Mac Pro. I don't bother using WiFi on this system since I use ethernet to connect to the router - partly distance, and partly because sometimes I like to zing a file to or from another computer in the house. We have Apple routers which are gigabit speed, so WiFi is snail slow comparatively.

I use the 2nd ethernet port to connect to either a) my printer - because the ethernet cable can be much much much longer than a USB cable, and I have big printer that doesn't fit into office, or b) the computer that I tether my camera to when I'm shooting. (I shoot into this 2nd computer because it powers the camera via FW, and it can store way more than a CF memory card.) After the session I hook the two up via ethernet and move a GB or more of photo files to my Mac Pro.... and that transfer is fast. That time savings is more than I would see with a "newer" CPU.

I believe that Thunderbolt is a technology that I won't ever be able to use with this system. Too bad, 'cause I think it will have a lot of potential. But it's not like there is a lot of compelling reasons to get it yet. The technology has not yet caught up to the potential. Maybe when this Mac Pro retires?

So - on a speadsheet listing features it may appear that the Mac Pro is old and tired, and being out run by an iMac... but for those of us who need a solid workhorse the Mac Pro is still a seriously good investment. This is a professional machine that is designed to work and work. And when it doesn't work - to be fixed and then start working again.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 12:47 AM   #346
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It is unbelievable that Apple let this happen. Regaulation never appear over night. Either their regulatory department didn't recognize it and alert the development team on time or they just didn't care. This would habe been such a minor change to address this regulation. Really no problem for a company like Apple and they could have addressed it without releasing a new design, just a revision up, not visible to the customers.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 12:57 AM   #347
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A lot of EU CRAP...
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 01:45 AM   #348
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As I have been stating for many years now...

MP's have been EOL'ed for quite sometime now...

Either be design or not...
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 01:46 AM   #349
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Originally Posted by KPOM View Post
It looks like it is some electrical safety standard. Mac Pro isn't a volume seller, but it still looks odd that they can't or don't want to get it up to standard.
Or it's not worth retro-fitting the current Pro if another one, that addresses the problem, is waiting in the wings.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 01:47 AM   #350
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It was fun as long it lasted...

This is it. we're quitting with apple IF Apple doesn't come up with a solution / significant upgrade towards the Mac Pro line soon. The Financial boost we've saved to upgrade all of our Mac Pro hardware at the end of 2013 will be spent on PC otherwise.

I started working with Apple computers from age very very young. Gradually I saw how Apple became from 'nothing' to a mayor player in the world of PC market. And as Apple had said themselves, they believe the world of 'smart' phones and ipad, ipods etc. will be next big thing and I don't blame them, it has become the next big thing. Roughly 90% of the MacRumors articles is about Apple's 0.1. inch improvement in size of iPhones, iPads, iTV's, iMac's etc. The pro-line, once Apple's biggest ship, had declared clinical death.

All tough I'm disappointed I do understand that money is more important for a large sized company, understatement, like Apple then delivering High End powercomputers because the marketshare for this line has become to thin...

For me the 'next big thing' would be a monster of a computer that can deal with rendering animations and can easily deal with large hi-ress files both video and picture oriented. I'm not interested in: thin, good looking, small and goofy. I'm interested in a fast none pretentious machine that will run circles around the iMacs, probably the only 'desktop' line of Apple in the future to come.

And to be honest....PC's these days already running circles around the Mac Pro, in the future more circles each round. It's sad, but the Apple is for the masses and for those whom are willing to pay a bit extra for design. And I can't deny, the Apple products do look fine. But I rather choose for an 'ugly' looking machine that can deal with extreme high demands over 'shiny bling bling', good for editing movies in HD format but not so good for high demands rendering animations and movie beyond 2K.
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