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Old Feb 1, 2013, 09:52 AM   #51
Plutonius
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Originally Posted by kwfl View Post
in the US only!
Does any other country really count .
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 09:54 AM   #52
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Pretty much. Apple does not do well without carrier subsidies.
In fact - if US carriers all go the way of T-Mobile - it will be interesting to see if Apple can maintain it's marketshare without offering lower cost options like other manufacturers do.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 09:54 AM   #53
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Pretty much. Apple does not do well without carrier subsidies.
Is this really true? I truly don't know and there's very little data coming from the actual participants in the market.

My question is in regards to the major European countries where the subsidy model isn't the norm. What is Apple's market share for high-end phones? I ask because that's pretty much the market that Apple is serving. I don't think that Apple is very concerned about the competition selling lower-end, lower-margin phones. They're competing with the Samsung S3/Note2 devices. How do the Sammy flagships sell in Europe without subsidies?
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 09:56 AM   #54
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This is like scoring more points in the 4th quarter of the Super bowl but still losing the game.

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Old Feb 1, 2013, 09:57 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by ftaok View Post
Is this really true? I truly don't know and there's very little data coming from the actual participants in the market.

My question is in regards to the major European countries where the subsidy model isn't the norm. What is Apple's market share for high-end phones? I ask because that's pretty much the market that Apple is serving. I don't think that Apple is very concerned about the competition selling lower-end, lower-margin phones. They're competing with the Samsung S3/Note2 devices. How do the Sammy flagships sell in Europe without subsidies?
Yes. But here in US - where it's not the norm - I do wonder what would/will happen if subsidies are stopped.

People already consider 200-300 a lot to spend on a phone. Will they really pay more - and upgrade as often. Or will lower cost phones prevail. I'm inclined to think there is a decent base of iPhone customers that wouldn't be if they had to pay full price (same for S3, etc). Only difference is - you can't get a cheaper iPhone. You can get cheaper windows/android phones...
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 09:57 AM   #56
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I wonder if Samsung gets counted multiple times per person handing it back in for repairs. My brother's girlfriend's S3 is off to repair for the 3rd time since release. My dad's S2 is off to repair for the 1st time in 2 months. My brother's girlfriend's brother's S3 is off to repair for the 2nd time since release. My 3GS has been flawless since release. My Brothers iPhone 5 has been flawless since release. My mum's nokia 6300 has been flawless since release.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 09:59 AM   #57
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I wonder if Samsung gets counted multiple times per person handing it back in for repairs. My brother's girlfriend's S3 is off to repair for the 3rd time since release. My dad's S2 is off to repair for the 1st time in 2 months. My brother's girlfriend's brother's S3 is off to repair for the 2nd time since release. My 3GS has been flawless since release. My Brothers iPhone 5 has been flawless since release. My mum's nokia 6300 has been flawless since release.
My sister-in-law, brother-in-law, wife and her mother have all had issues with their iPhones over the past 2-3 years.

All cell phone make/models can have issues.

Heck my iPhone 4 had to be exchanged 3 times before I had a camera that worked. And I'm not even that picky - but the camera did not function.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 10:02 AM   #58
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Heck my iPhone 4 had to be exchanged 3 times before I had a camera that worked. And I'm not even that picky - but the camera did not function.
You were probably using it wrong.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 10:04 AM   #59
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You were probably using it wrong.
No - that was how I was holding it and having both calls and data dropped. As Steve Jobs, himself, emailed me. It was all my fault.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 10:05 AM   #60
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No - that was how I was holding it and having both calls and data dropped. As Steve Jobs, himself, emailed me. It was all my fault.

Steve emailed you? doesn't that make you a saint or something?!
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 10:06 AM   #61
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In fact - if US carriers all go the way of T-Mobile - it will be interesting to see if Apple can maintain it's marketshare without offering lower cost options like other manufacturers do.
I doubt this will happen any time soon. There's no incentive for Verizon or AT&T to do this. The carriers love the subsidy model. Tmo is doing this because they're desperate.

The US carriers win using the subsidy model because they lock subscribers in for 2 years. At the end of the contract, people upgrade and lock in another two years OR they stay month to month and continue to pay the same monthly rates. Either way, the carriers win.

The Tmo subsidy-free model would threaten the ability for the US carriers to continue charging high-monthly fees after the phone is paid off. Also, I believe that the percentage of users that hold onto their phones for longer than 2 years would increase ... but I don't have any data to support that belief. Perhaps some of our Euro friends could shed some light on that.

I don't believe that Verizon or AT&T would willingly drop the subsidy model for the reasons stated above. The only way I could see it is if they drop the subsidy, but keep the monthly rates the same (aka too high).
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 10:07 AM   #62
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I really don't understand all this childish Apple "glee" and flag waving. (Well, I guess I do).

Apple needs a kick in the pants. All big companies do. The dissipation of Steve's reality distortion field is a good thing for us, the market and the future.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 10:10 AM   #63
samcraig
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Steve emailed you? doesn't that make you a saint or something?!
No - more like a jerk/bastard for calling attention to it - you know - making a big deal out of nothing. But only AFTER I was called a liar/forger/etc...

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthre...&highlight=arn
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 10:11 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Krazy Bill View Post
I really don't understand all this childish Apple "glee" and flag waving. (Well, I guess I do).

Apple needs a kick in the pants. All big companies do. The dissipation of Steve's reality distortion field is a good thing for us, the market and the future.
I don't understand why anyone is seeing this as negative on Apple. It's impressive... 3 iPhone models out sold all (ALL, not just smart phone) models of Samsung. Seems pretty darn impressive to me... even if it's only for a quarter.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 10:13 AM   #65
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In fact - if US carriers all go the way of T-Mobile - it will be interesting to see if Apple can maintain it's marketshare without offering lower cost options like other manufacturers do.
It likely wouldn't change anything. People still can walk into T-Mobile stores and pay the same $199 or $99 for high-end smartphones to get out the door. The no-subsidy model just separates the cost of the phone from the rate plan over the course of the contract.

If anything it might help Apple sell even more phones since the way T-Mobile's model works, every $20 paid per month towards the cost of your current device frees up credit to purchase a new phone without having to wait the full 2 years to upgrade and get a new phone.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 10:14 AM   #66
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Apple continues to impress with their results despite only having 2 phones (well, three) on the market.

However, I believe that they no longer need to keep the "1 phone to rule them all" mindset anymore. As someone else pointed out, they have enough cash and established presence in the marketplace that they could expand their lineup without an adverse impact to their core value of simplicity.

Every other Apple product does like this; they should officially play in all spaces within the marketplace.

Apple already have this capability, they just need to implement it:

Build an iPhone 3GS-type with retina and iphone 4s internals

Maintain the iPhone5 factor, while upgrading internals per the normal cycle

Release the iPhone+ with identical internals and upgrade cycle to iPhone5, but with a larger screen to address size-queen customers (like me & some Android users).

Consolidate design languages between iOS devices so as to minimize R&D requirements. (Just like their notebook lines).

3 Phones (well, each black & white) = GROWTH without sacrificing Apple's trademark simplicity and quality.

I said it before and I'll say it again, the greatest growth opportunity will come from Apple targeting a different type of customer (outside of the single marketplace they play in now).
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 10:14 AM   #67
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I don't understand why anyone is seeing this as negative on Apple. It's impressive... 3 iPhone models out sold all (ALL, not just smart phone) models of Samsung. Seems pretty darn impressive to me... even if it's only for a quarter.
In the US. If you go worldwide apple gets obliterated.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 10:15 AM   #68
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its not surprising android won the year. a lot of people are usuing windows 95 now instead of Mac. but dont worry. mac will do great even if it loses its 35% market share.

TYPO EDIT: oh did i say windows 95? sorry i meant android.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 10:17 AM   #69
samcraig
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If anything it might help Apple sell even more phones since the way T-Mobile's model works, every $20 paid per month towards the cost of your current device frees up credit to purchase a new phone without having to wait the full 2 years to upgrade and get a new phone.
I disagree - I think many people think about immediate upfront costs. That's why subsidies are loved. Out of pocket is at a minimum. They'd rather pay the $20+ a month beyond that. Another thing - who is saying that the carriers will lower costs just because they stop subsidies. It's not like they lower them now once you're done paying for them.

Again - I suspect that Apple's marketshare would decline if carriers in the US stop subsidies - unless Apple offers a phone at a lower price point.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 10:19 AM   #70
ftaok
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In the US. If you go worldwide apple gets obliterated.
and yet apple continues to eat all of the profits. This leads to the conclusion that the types of phones sold in the rest of the world are lowend, low margin phones. Apple chooses not to serve that segment at this point. I see it as a race to the bottom.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 10:19 AM   #71
uknowimright
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No - more like a jerk/bastard for calling attention to it - you know - making a big deal out of nothing. But only AFTER I was called a liar/forger/etc...

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthre...&highlight=arn
hahaha man that one is a classic

I bet some even called you a heathen
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 10:24 AM   #72
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it's only a misleading rumor on this site. Other sites have the title as Apple takes the quarter, but Samsung takes the year.
Other sites (like Engadget in their standard Android love fashion) simply add the word "smart" in front of phone thinking this report is limited to only smartphones. Talk about being mis-leading.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 10:27 AM   #73
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this also includes all of samsung's bottom of the barrel crap phones.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 10:28 AM   #74
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Just pointing out that Apple took the lead for the last quarter most likely due to the timing of the release of the Iphone 5. Samsung was still significantly ahead for the entire year. The title of this article is a bit misleading and reads as though this is some sort of mega competition ala Super Bowl.
You should also point this out when Samsung "takes the lead" in a quarter where the latest iPhone has been out for a couple of quarters, and the Samsung Galaxy JumboDroid™ III was just released.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 10:30 AM   #75
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That is pretty good for apple since Samsung has so many form factors and differently priced phones.

Wonder what the numbers would look like if they only compared the iPhone 4/5 with GS3 sales for the last 3 quarters of 2012?
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