Register FAQ / Rules Forum Spy Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > MacRumors.com News Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Feb 1, 2013, 09:04 AM   #176
RobNYC
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: New York, NY
Quote:
Originally Posted by FriarNurgle View Post
Even if HBO would allow a stand alone (no cable subscription required) channel app on the Apple TV, the subscription fee would likely be ridiculous. I'd guess $15-$20 and they would limit and or block new releases. Guess I'll just have to stick with airplaying bootle streams.
HBO doesn't broadcast movies until almost a full year after they came out. They've always had that kind of deal with the studios. There would be no benefit to delay it even further when everyone else could have just rented the DVD from Netflix months ago or ordered it on PPV a couple of months after it left the theater.
RobNYC is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 09:19 AM   #177
RobNYC
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: New York, NY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lesser Evets View Post
That's a joke, right? TV these days is written like little-girl fan fiction, acted by un-enigmatic cardboard, and filmed by blind men. It's the least engrossing time in all TV history. And it is mostly propaganda.
Considering there are more networks now airing original content their point is valid. There is a ton of stuff not on NBC, CBS, ABC and Fox.
RobNYC is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 09:24 AM   #178
Tiger8
macrumors 68000
 
Join Date: May 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by HobeSoundDarryl View Post
Because, in general, Apple wants to dictate very strict terms while the other guys are generally more cooperative. Apple wants to completely own decisions like price- as if one piece of media is equal to all other similar pieces of media. Is William Shatner's version of Space Oddity at $1.29 really equal in value to David Bowie's original? How about ****'s Rocket Man vs. Elton John's original?

A partner like Netflix lays out big coin up front to woo video players to play ball. Apple generally wants to woo solely on the revenue potential of a cut AFTER Apple takes it's cut first. I've seen decision-maker executives on the video side comment that they'd love to do a deal with Apple but "Apple wants everything" (meaning extraordinarily good deal for Apple but little-to-nothing for 'us').

And, all of the video players have seen what happens when you help Apple gain heavy domination over an industry. They don't want to find themselves in the same type of spot as their music industry cousins. Apple wouldn't even allow owners/creators of music to set their own prices of their own products. The video guys (and music guys too) would rather feel some pain by helping many other players be successful instead of just handing it all over to Apple.

Lastly, in Roku's case, that's their primary business. They are focused on making that as appealing as possible. They are not distracted by iDevices and computers and proprietary connectors and lawsuits, etc. Instead, they are focused on trying to do this kind of thing as right as they can do it. Apple refers to TV as a "hobby" (even 6 years on since releasing the first one) and they keep "pulling the string to see where it takes us" rather than getting very serious about it.

Apple easily has the resources to put at least as many human resources on forging deals as a much smaller company like Roku does. Apple easily has the cash resources to out-spend Netflix to "grease the wheels" with industry players to get major content deals done. IMO, it's mostly a lack of focus on this part of the whole. And too bad if true, as I think the whole market is theirs for the taking if they would just get very serious about going after it.

I suspect they are fixated on trying to make the (very pro-Apple) music deal again in a changed world where the next big target can clearly see the flaws in that deal for the Studios. Even the music industry hasn't allowed Apple to roll out any kind of Pandora-like subscription option yet, in spite of that rumor flying for what: 4+ years now? Why is that so hard to get done? Perhaps because Apple is a tough partner and the content owner's side of a "win:win" doesn't have enough win in it vs. doing such deals with others.
Super insightful, thank you! I see your point. You are right, add to it is that Roku do not have their own 'service' so they welcome Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, (and soon Google Play) and the rest with open Arms. No way on earth would Apple allow Amazon anywhere near Apple TV, they complete with iTunes.

But you see, for the average Joe like me, all I see is one device for $49+ which has a dozens and dozens of channels (and ironically, mimic's Apple's own App store concept but with 'channel store'), and another $99 device were there is a song and dance for every single content provider / service.

I hope Apple truly know what they are doing in this area, i would hate for them to be the new 'IBM and the hard disk' example.
Tiger8 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 09:26 AM   #179
RobNYC
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: New York, NY
Quote:
Originally Posted by gco212 View Post
I don't know they're corporate structure, but HBO is either owned as an asset or a wholly owned subsidiary of Time Warner. It is actually Time Warner's most valuable asset today. Whether they're actually an asset or two different companies is purely academic for these purposes.
HBO is owned by Time Warner Inc.. Time Warner Cable is no longer part of Time Warner Inc. They split up. TWC is now it's own separate company. They still have the name from when they were part of Time Warner but they no longer are owned by Time Warner Inc.
RobNYC is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 09:36 AM   #180
rhaezorblue
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
We cut the cable TV cord after getting the Apple TV for Christmas. I would be so happy if HBO Go on the Apple TV didn't require a subscription to the whole $85 mess of crap. We bought a $30 digital TV air antenna and get our local stations like NBC, ABC, CBS, Fox, PBS.. switched our phone service to magicjack ($20 a year) so now the only monthly bills we have for entertainment are Netflix, Hulu plus and our U-verse internet. Way way cheaper than the $150 they were charging for all 3 bundled services.

tldr: HBO Go on Apple TV please, subscription based like Netflix!
rhaezorblue is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 09:38 AM   #181
pezdaddy
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Killer View Post
MLB.TV is basically useless to me. I'm in the region that blacks out Rangers games, and since I watch probably 95% of the games (or part of games), cable is mandatory.

And that's fine. I watch a ton of football and baseball that it warrants it. My TV picture is excellent, and I believe that streaming everything would be detrimental to this. And I watch enough TV on enough different channels that I don't feel like I'm getting screwed too badly.
There are ways around the MLB blackout. One way is to jailbreak your iOS device, location spoof, and AirPlay.

PM me if you need more info.
pezdaddy is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 09:40 AM   #182
CoolSpot
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRumors View Post
Image


Apple is in talks with HBO to bring that company's HBO Go video streaming service to the Apple TV, reports Bloomberg. HBO Go is a streaming service that allows HBO subscribers to watch HBO content on PCs, tablets, consoles, and other platforms.

Bloomberg:
Currently, Netflix and Hulu Plus are the only subscription service that Apple allows on its Apple TV box, while HBO Go is available on the iPhone and the iPad.

There have been numerous rumors in recent years about Apple's plans for the television, but CEO Tim Cook has been cagey about details other than repeatedly saying that television is "an area of intense interest" for the company

Article Link: Apple in Talks to Bring HBO Go to the Apple TV
Honestly, who gives a ****? Wow, you can ****ing watch HBO (which requires a TV subscription) on a device that hooks up to your TV. Amazing.

Until HBO decouples from requiring cable, nothing has changed and nobody cares.
CoolSpot is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 09:58 AM   #183
phillipduran
macrumors 6502a
 
phillipduran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Iowa
Game of Thrones!
__________________
That's "Geniuses," not Genii, genius.
To err, is PC.
phillipduran is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 10:00 AM   #184
milo
macrumors 603
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoDaKat View Post
The only thing that would make this cool was if non-cable users could "order" a subscription a la carte from HBO, like you do with Hulu or Netfilx. If its just HBO Go, who cares?
They're leaving money on the table. There must be people who would be perfectly happy to pay for the GO service but don't want to waste all that money on a whole cable package. Instead of making that money, people will just download illegal versions of the show or get the discs from netflix.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lesser Evets View Post
That's a joke, right? TV these days is written like little-girl fan fiction, acted by un-enigmatic cardboard, and filmed by blind men. It's the least engrossing time in all TV history. And it is mostly propaganda.
If you can't find anything on TV you'd consider great, I'd say the problem is you, not the programming.


Quote:
Originally Posted by yg17 View Post
So I wonder if Apple would allow HBO's skinemax on the Apple TV. We all know how much Apple likes to be the porn police, if you can call that stuff porn. Not that I've ever watched it or anything........
Have you looked at the titles they sell in the iTunes store? They don't have any problem with it there.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolSpot View Post
Honestly, who gives a ****?
People who read the article/thread and actually understand what the service provides.
milo is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 10:03 AM   #185
nonillogical
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
About time. I currently keep a mouse and keyboard in the living room so I can mirror to watch HBOgo and misc streaming like adultswim. It works pretty well and I'm glad I can mirror, but there is always some artifacting in the darker parts of the image (biiiig blocks of discoloration), even though the resolution is fine everywhere else. I've been told if I had a better wireless router this wouldn't happen but Netflix and other direct streams look perfect.
nonillogical is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 10:04 AM   #186
leo.andres.21
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Centre of the Attention
Send a message via MSN to leo.andres.21 Send a message via Yahoo to leo.andres.21 Send a message via Skype™ to leo.andres.21
More Apple TV integration for the UK please. Spotify, Sky, that and more
__________________
MBP 15" Core i7 2820QM, 8GB 1333MHz RAM, 1GB AMD 6750HD, 750GB HDD
iPhone 4S(teve), 32GB, White *Stolen*
Alienware Aurora i7-2600K, 8GB 1333MHz RAM, 1GB AMD 6870HD, 256GB Samsung 470
leo.andres.21 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 10:15 AM   #187
Jumpman6
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Durham, NC
Quote:
Originally Posted by iMike208 View Post
People keep talking about there being no benefit. There is PLENTY of benefit for current HBO subscribers. With HBO Go, there is access to not just current but ALL episodes of ALL HBO's original programming (plus access to current run movies, etc...). I don't know about you, but while I have seen a lot of the stuff while it airs, there are some things I missed and would love to catch up on. While it is possible for me to sit and stare at my iPad or iPhone for hours on end and catch up, it's not ideal when you actually have more than one person wanting to catch up and watch. Yes, imagine that. My wife and I like to watch the same shows at the same time.

Anyway, I can see why people who want to cut the cord are complaining, but for current subscribers there is immense benefit to having this on a TV device. When I caught up on THE WIRE, I had to run a 100ft HDMI cable from my Mac to my TV so that I could take advantage of HBO Go, and it didn't look so great. Meanwhile, iOS got airplay which didn't work for HBO Go (I'm seeing some people say it does now. I didn't think so, but I'll have to try it). I have a PS3, but the XBOX got exclusive rights instead. Then the Mac got airplay mirroring, but my Mac didn't make the cutoff with Mountain Lion. And since I have an Apple TV, I refuse to buy a Roku box. So, I'm patiently waiting for this to be available on some device I own!
This. All of this. This is why I want HBO Go on the Apple TV or PS3, hooked to my television. There are numerous films and other programming on Go that DON'T run on regular rotation on the channels. They're only on Go. That's big for this consumer.
Jumpman6 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 10:24 AM   #188
trouble747
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolSpot View Post
Honestly, who gives a ****? Wow, you can ****ing watch HBO (which requires a TV subscription) on a device that hooks up to your TV. Amazing.

Until HBO decouples from requiring cable, nothing has changed and nobody cares.
Uh, HBOgo offers pretty much the entire back catalog of HBO programming. Lots of people probably do care.
trouble747 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 10:28 AM   #189
Bill Killer
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lesser Evets View Post
That's a joke, right? TV these days is written like little-girl fan fiction, acted by un-enigmatic cardboard, and filmed by blind men. It's the least engrossing time in all TV history. And it is mostly propaganda.
You only watch channels like CBS then.

Believe it or not, ever since cable got into original programming, TV quality has increased significantly. Take for example AMC:

-Mad Men
-Breaking Bad
-The Walking Dead

The first two are going to be remembered as some of the best dramas ever.

Then there's HBO. Since 2000:

-Game of Thrones
-The Sopranos
-Entourage
-Treme
-Generation Kill
-Curb Your Enthusiasm
-Six Feet Under
-Band of Brothers
-The Pacific
-Boardwalk Empire
-The Wire
-True Blood
-Girls

Most of these shows are vastly better than offerings from network television, ever.

From a number of additional channels:

-Homeland
-Shameless
-House of Lies
-Dexter
-Party Down
-It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia
-Archer
-Parks and Recreation
-30 Rock
-Happy Endings
-Arrested Development (the best comedy ever produced)
-Lost
-Sons of Anarchy
-Sherlock
-Doctor Who
-Top Gear
-The Shield
-Suits
-Psych
-American Horror Story
-Modern Family
-Fringe
-Justified
-Friday Night Lights
-Daily Show/Colbert Report
-Futurama
-South Park
-Louie
-Cougar Town

We are in an outbreak of cable original programming, and I strongly believe that it's produced the widest and best selection of quality television in the history of the medium. I don't even think this is a debatable discussion. Either you're stuck watching the the four network channels only, or you have terrible taste.
Bill Killer is offline   4 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 10:33 AM   #190
trouble747
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lesser Evets View Post
That's a joke, right? TV these days is written like little-girl fan fiction, acted by un-enigmatic cardboard, and filmed by blind men. It's the least engrossing time in all TV history. And it is mostly propaganda.
Haha what? That's a completely bizarre statement. Television programming is probably at its highest point so far...

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Killer View Post
We are in an outbreak of cable original programming, and I strongly believe that it's produced the widest and best selection of quality television in the history of the medium. I don't even think this is a debatable discussion. Either you're stuck watching the the four network channels only, or you have terrible taste.
Yeah, it's difficult to fathom the belief that there was some amazing, golden age of television past. What, when viewers were limited to 2-3 national networks? What a silly suggestion...
trouble747 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 10:37 AM   #191
spcdust
macrumors 6502a
 
spcdust's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: London, UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by OllyW View Post
Apple only seem to be interested in adding subscription players, maybe they receive some form of compensation from these companies?

The UK VOD players you've listed are all from free to air channels so Apple probably doesn't see an opportunity of profiting from hosting them. We do of course, because we think it would make the Apple TV a lot more desirable to the UK market so they could sell a lot more.

Just a thought.
That's my point, make the Apple TV a more attractive proposition to the average Joe by including some of the free to air VOD services and Apple are bringing more people into the Apple eco system. Music and film purchases would surely be an inevitability and for those who don't already own other iOS devices I would imagine once they recognise how the Apple TV works alongside these devices hardware sales could be increased. For me personally, having an iPhone, iPad and iMac owning an Apple TV is a must have device.
__________________
27" Quad Core i7 iMac (Sandy Bridge), 12GB RAM, 2 TB HD
spcdust is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 10:41 AM   #192
foodog
macrumors 6502a
 
foodog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Quote:
Originally Posted by canman4PM View Post
This would be exciting, except I already get HBO on my TV...

...by turning on my TV and cable box.
Exactly... how about a subscription to HBO without cable on the ATV?
__________________
][+ (48K Ram) to Mac Pro 2013 and many Apple computers between.
foodog is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 10:43 AM   #193
Bill Killer
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by trouble747 View Post
Haha what? That's a completely bizarre statement. Television programming is probably at its highest point so far...

----------



Yeah, it's difficult to fathom the belief that there was some amazing, golden age of television past. What, when viewers were limited to 2-3 national networks? What a silly suggestion...
Seinfeld was on in the 90's. That must have made TV collectively better than all that is offered today.
Bill Killer is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 11:01 AM   #194
mono1980
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lansing, MI
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger8 View Post
It is already on Roku.

I just don't get it, why is it always a big deal with Apple? This is like this whole deal with iTunes Match, were Apple went through everyone and their mama while both Amazon and Google already launched their cloud services, and then did what Apple did a couple of months later on their own terms, not the recording industry terms. What did Apple get? Praises from the music industry for 'doing it right'?

Roku has Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, Amazon Cloud Player, Spotify, Pandora, Flex, Crackle, ESPN, and hundreds of international and content channels, plus the ability to stream any content from any PC, and the higher end model has a USB port downloaded content. Why is Apple TV so behind?
Because these companies see Apple as a threat. They don't want what happened to the music business to happen to them. It is not Apple's fault.
mono1980 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 11:07 AM   #195
flux73
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: May 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by iMike208 View Post
People keep talking about there being no benefit. There is PLENTY of benefit for current HBO subscribers. With HBO Go, there is access to not just current but ALL episodes of ALL HBO's original programming (plus access to current run movies, etc...). I don't know about you, but while I have seen a lot of the stuff while it airs, there are some things I missed and would love to catch up on. While it is possible for me to sit and stare at my iPad or iPhone for hours on end and catch up, it's not ideal when you actually have more than one person wanting to catch up and watch. Yes, imagine that. My wife and I like to watch the same shows at the same time.

Anyway, I can see why people who want to cut the cord are complaining, but for current subscribers there is immense benefit to having this on a TV device. When I caught up on THE WIRE, I had to run a 100ft HDMI cable from my Mac to my TV so that I could take advantage of HBO Go, and it didn't look so great. Meanwhile, iOS got airplay which didn't work for HBO Go (I'm seeing some people say it does now. I didn't think so, but I'll have to try it). I have a PS3, but the XBOX got exclusive rights instead. Then the Mac got airplay mirroring, but my Mac didn't make the cutoff with Mountain Lion. And since I have an Apple TV, I refuse to buy a Roku box. So, I'm patiently waiting for this to be available on some device I own!
It doesn't have the impact that it would if it didn't require cable subscription. Which would be game-changing.
flux73 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 11:09 AM   #196
bryan85
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
This only matters to me if I can buy an HBO Go subscription. I have never had cable since I moved out of my parents house eight years ago. Right now I just wait the year it takes for the content to come to iTunes and buy it there but, I don't necessarily want to own it sometimes. I'd be willing to pay $15/month for HBO Go standalone. If they did the same thing with Showtime, that would also be awesome! This seems like a no brainer to me. That is $15/month straight into HBO's pocket, no middle man.

P.S. Amazon Prime Instant sucks rocks. I don't want that crap on my Apple TV. It's always buffering even on my 50Mb connection, iPad or MacBook Pro.
__________________
27" iMac, 3.4GHz i7, 32GB RAM, 680MX 2GB, 768GB SSD (Late 2012) | ATV 3 | iPad 3 64GB | iPhone 5C 32GB T-Mobile
bryan85 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 11:10 AM   #197
Bill Killer
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by flux73 View Post
It doesn't have the impact that it would if it didn't require cable subscription. Which would be game-changing.
Then maybe Apple should subsidize it to get the ball rolling.

The fact is that HBO isn't going to willingly begin offering an a la carte program. It runs of the risk of upsetting cable providers, to the point where marketing based around HBO could take a drastic hit and cause a decrease in TV subscriptions. For a channel that finances everything without the benefit of on-air advertising, this isn't preferable.
Bill Killer is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 11:13 AM   #198
Keebler
macrumors 68030
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Canada
Close, but not close enough

I like where this is going, BUT I still don't like it because, you have to be an HBO subscriber which means (unless I'm wrong here), you need a cable subscription service with a package containing HBO?

At least, I'm sure that's how it works here in Canada.

If I'm right, this is one huge reason why I cancelled TV. Tired of paying x amount for way too many crap channels.

If HBO said, hey, you can pay for our exclusive channel for x amount per year, I'd do it b/c I believe it's quality programming.

Needing to pay for other garbage channels....not buying.

BUT, if this is a step towards accomplishing that goal, I hope it works

Personally, I think that's one of the obstacles/delays Apple's facing in launching a full TV = not sure if they'll get the buy in from the HBO's of the industry to go direct.

Cutting out the middle man would definitely cause job losses, but the way I see it, people are cancelling cable and satellite as it is causing losses so it's inevitable.

Cheers,
Keebler
Keebler is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 11:18 AM   #199
flux73
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: May 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by mono1980 View Post
Because these companies see Apple as a threat. They don't want what happened to the music business to happen to them. It is not Apple's fault.
People keep saying this, but what is it that they've done "to" the music business? Have they gone under? Are people no longer buying music?

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Killer View Post
Then maybe Apple should subsidize it to get the ball rolling.

The fact is that HBO isn't going to willingly begin offering an a la carte program. It runs of the risk of upsetting cable providers, to the point where marketing based around HBO could take a drastic hit and cause a decrease in TV subscriptions. For a channel that finances everything without the benefit of on-air advertising, this isn't preferable.
If you read my posts earlier in thread, that's exactly what I argued for - subsidies. It's in Apple's interests to prove this can work and make it low-no risk for HBO (Time Warner).
flux73 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 11:22 AM   #200
Bill Killer
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by flux73 View Post
People keep saying this, but what is it that they've done "to" the music business? Have they gone under? Are people no longer buying music?

----------


If you read my posts earlier in thread, that's exactly what I argued for - subsidies. It's in Apple's interests to prove this can work and make it low-no risk for HBO (Time Warner).
It still is a big risk to HBO since they have relationships with every major cable provider.
Bill Killer is offline   0 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > MacRumors.com News Discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Apple in Talks with Comcast to Provide Streaming TV Service on Future Apple TV MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 206 Apr 7, 2014 09:14 PM
Apple Adds WatchESPN, HBO GO, Sky News, and More to Apple TV MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 333 Nov 10, 2013 08:32 PM
Facebook in Talks With Apple to Bring 'Home' to iPhone MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 283 May 17, 2013 10:58 AM
HBO Now Allows Subscribers to Stream HBO Go to Apple TV using AirPlay MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 84 Feb 14, 2013 09:59 AM
HBO Go on Apple TV!! Paratel Apple TV and Home Theater 4 Feb 12, 2013 04:05 PM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:20 AM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC