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Old Feb 2, 2013, 01:57 AM   #51
2012Tony2012
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Originally Posted by snberk103 View Post
By the same token can you point me to some expert sources that says that the 3rd party apps you are installing to delete the logs (and potentially giving Admin privileges to) are not themselves copying the info and sending it out?

I would rather believe that the absence of any evidence that log files - installed on every Mac and readable by anyone - contain sensitive information means that they don't have sensitive info. As opposed to the closed and proprietary nature of 3rd party apps that are installed in a minority of Macs, and whose results are not transparent to everyone.

But it's your call.... it is your info after all.... trust the 3rd party apps developers who can disappear overnight.
I see a lot of claims from you and no backup sources.
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 11:39 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by 2012Tony2012 View Post
I see a lot of claims from you and no backup sources.
I'm not claiming anything... I'm merely applying the same logic to the providers of the 3rd party apps that you want to use that you are using on the log entries.

There is no evidence that logs files contain sensitive information, and by the same token there is no evidence (that I care to provide) that the log files don't contain sensitive information.

There is no evidence that the 3rd party apps steal sensitive information, and by the same token there is no evidence (that I care to provide) thatthe 3rd party apps don't steal sensitive information.

Log files are open to anybody to inspect, and 3rd party apps are not.

If I was worried....and I'm not... my betting money would be on the easily audited log files being the safer bet.

But... I'm not the one worried.... if you feel safer letting 3rd party developers (that could theoretically have a motive for selling sensitive info) and that are not publicly audited for safety have complete access to your system in order to delete log files that have never been shown to contain sensitive info.... Let's just say we have a difference of opinion about where the risk lies.
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 03:22 PM   #53
2012Tony2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snberk103 View Post
I'm not claiming anything... I'm merely applying the same logic to the providers of the 3rd party apps that you want to use that you are using on the log entries.

There is no evidence that logs files contain sensitive information, ....
And because there is no evidence they don't, I will continue to run Apps that clear them out regularly, because you cannot prove or be 100% certain that they don't, so the reasonable approach in that situation is....when in doubt, clear them!

If nobody can prove or show me solid evidence that no logs contain sensitive or private information, I will continue to use cleaning Apps to be sure.
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 03:45 PM   #54
dyn
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Originally Posted by GGJstudios View Post
Changing logging settings is not what's being discussed here.
Then you have no idea about the contents of this topic nor to what you are replying. I brought it up so yes we are discussing changing logging settings. Before that it was indeed about merely deleting the logs. The reason why I brought this up is quite simple: not everything that is logged will be dealt with by the maintenance scripts (as somebody else also points out). Sometimes these settings are also not beneficial to somebody. Another reason why I brought it up is more simple: it is a very good compromise between keeping the logs and deleting them. You control how the clean up works so you can tell it to keep some logging in order to troubleshoot, audit, etc. Everything else you can delete. If you read this topic you could have seen the real problem: the OP simply wants to have some control over the logging and that's what you can get if you dive into the logging system. Deleting and not deleting stuff is too easy.

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What's being discussed is using 3rd party apps to blindly delete logs, without regard for their content or use, which provides no benefit apart from the small amount of space that is temporarily gained, with the associated disadvantage that such information may be needed in the future.
It remains to be seen if that is really a disadvantage. Windows has crappy logging since day 1 and it never has been a major problem. It can be a tad annoying but it can be overcome. However, I do agree that one should realise this and ask himself if it is wise to do so. Logs shouldn't grow that much and the maintenance scripts should clean it up. If logs do grow a lot then something is seriously wrong. It is additional work for yourself with little benefit so I'd leave it as it is.

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As it is far more likely that the average user would want to refer to logs for troubleshooting purposes than for security audits or reporting or other uses, it's more appropriate to discuss a purpose for them that is more likely to be used.
No it is not more likely it is as less likely as they will for the other things. The average user does not know there is logging and certainly does not know what those logs are and how to read them. The average user has a problem and calls for help. It is the computerguy who will require logs for fixing the problem.

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You have absolutely no idea what I do and don't understand about logging and the content of logs, so kindly refrain from making baseless and false claims about my understanding.
Then by all means show it in the information you are giving here so others don't have to correct you in order to make sure people are not sidetracked by the information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snberk103 View Post
By the same token can you point me to some expert sources that says that the 3rd party apps you are installing to delete the logs (and potentially giving Admin privileges to) are not themselves copying the info and sending it out?
Use things like tcpdump and wireshark. If you want additional security then firewall apps (you have ipfw and pf besides the firewall in the system preferences; these are good open source firewall software used around the world in various OSs and products).

Quote:
Originally Posted by snberk103 View Post
There is no evidence that logs files contain sensitive information, and by the same token there is no evidence (that I care to provide) that the log files don't contain sensitive information.
Either you have not seen any log on OS X or you have a very weird description of "sensitive information" but I think you have both. Simply open "Console" and read through the various logs. There is a lot of sensitive information there. That's what we need in order to do audits, troubleshooting, etc.

Quote:
Log files are open to anybody to inspect, and 3rd party apps are not.
If they are closed source they are not but this isn't true at all for open source software. The entire idea behind software being open source is being able to help out and being able to inspect.

Besides all this: there is little need for 3rd party apps since all the tools that you need are in OS X already.
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