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Old Feb 3, 2013, 04:26 PM   #476
G51989
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Originally Posted by adversus View Post
I'm going to go out on a limb and say all you people freaking out over not being able to buy a shiny new Mac Pro every year aren't really pro business users.

A Pro business user doesn't refresh their gear just because some new version comes up. They update their gear when it NEEDS to be upgraded. Mac Pro's have always been designed to have a longer shelf life than the iMacs.
By using 3 year old hardware? And overcharging for garbage?
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 04:28 PM   #477
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Originally Posted by adversus View Post
I'm going to go out on a limb and say all you people freaking out over not being able to buy a shiny new Mac Pro every year aren't really pro business users.

A Pro business user doesn't refresh their gear just because some new version comes up. They update their gear when it NEEDS to be upgraded. Mac Pro's have always been designed to have a longer shelf life than the iMacs.
If a business user needs to buy a new machine does your rant apply?
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 04:31 PM   #478
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Originally Posted by deconstruct60 View Post
Frankly that "loop back" solution is form over function. The function is to connect to a monitor. That cable connected to a monitor would just function. It actually some sort of "form" of 'have to' pump out through TB that get you that Rube Goldberg "solution".
The function needed here is that you can connect TB-monitor (like ATBD) to a TB socket. There's very clear need for this.
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Originally Posted by deconstruct60 View Post
The CEO of Apple said that Apple had purchased Shake to:

"... giving them powerful tools that were far more cost-effective than what they were accustomed to… ..."
http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/28/...ut-pro-market/

They did. So much for the CEO's words not being indicative of what Apple is going to do.
I wasn't talking about purchasing the Shake. Your quote tells nothing about axing it.
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Originally Posted by deconstruct60 View Post
Shake didn't work as a long tern independent software package because frankly most of the users didn't want more cost-effective tools.
Wow, where did you got this info? Not straight from Apple?
Shake was axed because "hardly no-one was buying it"?
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Originally Posted by deconstruct60 View Post
Second part first. That's laughably not true. FCPX has exited some, not all production environments. The notion that it can never re-enter some of the environments points far more to non-Apple behaviour than to anything Apple has or will do.
What is true here is that most professional corporate enviroments haven't adopted fcpX. And at the time of releasing fcpX that wouldn't been even possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deconstruct60 View Post
As for the first part....

And yet it was for sale a month or so later. Basically standard Apple practice. Pull the product from the market and then for those who need maintenance/continuity copies make it available after the message clearly goes out that that version is done. It isn't going to be a debate of continuing it.
After more than 2 months after FCS was axed, FCS returned silently to market. You could only buy it by phoning to Apple and Apple never released any info about the re-enter. Also you can't buy upgrade anymore, which most buyers would otherwise buy.
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Originally Posted by deconstruct60 View Post
And yet sales of OS X Server went substantially up after Apple canceled the XServe. For vast majority of Small-Medium Businesses an Mac mini serve actually does work.
Nevertheless osXserver would have naturally sold more, if xServe would have also been on sale.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deconstruct60 View Post
Again the protest after were very illuminating of what folks had been telling Apple. There were petitions to "free" OS X because all the large (can only use rack solution) shops wanted was OS X in a virtual machine on commodity hardware. If you tell Apple you don't want a system solution (hardware + software ) then you are basically telling them you don't want Apple product. So they stopped selling it when folks stop buying the systems and said they just weren't going to buy them in the future either.
Apple has been selling software-only products all the time.
They could also sell osX to other machines especially when they don't sell machines, that many of us would like to buy.
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Originally Posted by deconstruct60 View Post
This is all far more dependent upon what customers are going to do. Apple is going to give the Mac Pro market another shot to back up the talk with product purchases or not. If the Mac Pro gets back on a growth path that is in line with the Mac market then it will probably stay. If the Mac Pro numbers continue to recede then it will get axed. It is just as much, if not more, up to the customers whether that happens or not.
Cook or Apple has not said that there will be a new MP. All that was said was that there will be something awesome to come.
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Originally Posted by Macist View Post
Side note: I wish people would stop using FCPX as an example of Apple abandoning Pros. It was launched in a ridiculous way but now it's perfectly capable of the kinds of things the previous version was and its way faster and generally more stable. Indeed, in some regards it makes its rivals look positively old skool.
Anyway launching fcpX the way they did, lead a lot of pros to abandon Apple. It just showed that Apple does not care. The fact that fcpX is now much better, does not change this. Still many people say that fcpX is not even today stable enough for professional environments. Axing FinalCutServer and Color was also a very big slap in the face of companies that had made big investments relying Apple's software.

For those few months after launching fcpX, nobody had any sign from Apple, that they really care about pros. Bringing FCS back for sale to corporate enviroments was just like giving some overtime for companies to get rid of Apple's software.
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 05:24 PM   #479
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Originally Posted by deconstruct60 View Post
Someone with 5-7 year old even more "obsolete" (isn't good enough for the job anymore ) hardware some of which is actually classified by Apple as obsolete (because it is old). The vast majority of Mac Pro buyers are gong to be folks who already own a computer. That computer relative to a Mac Pro is a reason to "move up".
Technically they can move to another alternative that in some cases is even faster, but incrementally so. Just skipping technology generations is a larger shift than the incremental between adjacent ones.
For some the migration costs to another OS platform would outweigh the value add.
The reason why the vast majority of folks are just moaning about the situation is because their current hardware is good enough and/or their perceived migration costs are high. Most are sitting on even older stuff than this.
P.S. if go to Dell/HP/etc sites they are all still selling at least a subset of the older models. It is not that obsolete.
I have a 2008 mac pro, dual 2.8ghz xeons that I have upgraded through the years with 16gb ram, a gtx285 and a 480gb ssd.
I use it for video and photo editing, and it still keeps up with the workload very well.
But the problem with apple is not just the 3 year neglect of the mac pro, but its complete change of focus as a company.
I was interested in a new mac pro for a while, but when I saw apple start to abandon the pro market, with FCPX, and no mac pro models in almost 3 years, I decided that they are no longer serious about their commitment and I would not invest more money in an unreliable vendor.
I was hoping that apple would focus on improving performance, making the hardware, software and the os use ram and cores fully, etc.
Instead we get a focus on making everything like ios. This is not the way to go to inspire confidence among users who need more capable computers.
I no longer trust apple to give a **** about my needs.
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 11:12 PM   #480
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Originally Posted by MagnusVonMagnum View Post
If it were the most successful product or Toyota's flagship would probably be the freaking Corolla. A flagship is always the highest profile (often luxury type status) and/or most powerful product offered. Thus, one could argue that either the Mac Pro (although I think in some respects like graphics the top-end iMac has it beat since it's out of date) or the iPhone is Apple flagship product (iPhone being the most high profile product and the Mac Pro being the most powerful product). But since this is also typically by class, one could just as easily argue that the iPhone is the flagship iOS product and the Mac Pro is the flagship Mac. Given Apple's lack of attention, however, frankly I think the highest profile Mac right now is the Macbook Pro Retina, but that will change as soon as all go Retina.

In Naval terms, the flagship is the most powerful/visible ship in the fleet. There's typically only ONE of them. In terms of cars, it's the top-end vehicle, often within a given class. For Chevrolet and sports cars, this would be the Corvette (sorry Camaro). For Cadillac sedans, this is currently the XTS, although it's supposedly going to be replaced soon. But if you went by unit sales success, the flagship wouldn't be any of those.
Thank you!

iPhone is iOS "flagship", but definitely not Apple´s main flagship, ´cause iOS devices could not even exist without the Mac.

Anyway, Apple should be ashamed of themselves leaving all the pro users hanging and making these silly iToys. I admit iPhone was great in 2008, but now it´s totally boring, I only use it for phone, text, email, Facebook basically. When I need to do anything else I want a powerful computer and OS X!!!
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 05:59 AM   #481
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Originally Posted by MagnusVonMagnum View Post
Um, yeah, I think I said the highest profile product above being one of the possibilities. That does not imply "success", however as I was refuting.
You wrote: "A flagship is always the highest profile (often luxury type status) and/or most powerful product offered".
That is simply not true. That is only the case if the company specifically makes their most powerful/luxurious product their most prominent one. If the company doesn't do that, their most high profile product is going to be the one that is naturally the most prominent; the most successful one.
That's the case with Apple and iPhone, although they seem to be pushing for making iPad their most high profile product now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ApplesAOranges View Post
Thank you!

iPhone is iOS "flagship", but definitely not Apple´s main flagship, ´cause iOS devices could not even exist without the Mac.
By that reasoning, the Apple I is the only flagship product Apple could ever have since no other Apple product would exist without it.
Your idea that a product can't be a flagship product if it was based on something else is simply wrong. The term "flagship product" doesn't consider history, only the current state of business.

Last edited by Lennholm; Feb 4, 2013 at 06:04 AM.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 06:29 AM   #482
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i think, that even in the absence of a new Mac Pro, business and education haven't swayed from adopting the iMac as its daily workhorse, which I have seen in countless workplaces and schools in recent times.

anyone with half a brain would have built a hackintosh already or a beast pc machine if they needed the power.

post-pc era ultimately means mobility. i think apple think that the technology will catch up to their demands when it comes to design and portability, rather than the other way round. they can just sit on the iMac for another 5 years and by then the chips inside that thing will be so crazy it wont matter anymore.

The only way i see a new Mac Pro coming along is if they completely reinvent the wheel somehow. They won't just bring out another tower.

If anything, I think they'll hold true to their values - which is the the idea of the 'hub of your digital life'.

A kind of mix between mac mini, time capsule, icloud, airport express and apple tv. airplay around the house. file sharing made easier. syncing. everything about that whole apple process made easier. Of course you could get the individual products, but this would be the big buck winner.

It doesn't even have to be the successor to the Mac Pro, and in fact it probably wont be. But I dont really see them doing a tower, it'll be something that has more to do with the current ecosystem.

Last edited by Matt Leaf; Feb 4, 2013 at 06:37 AM.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 06:59 AM   #483
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Originally Posted by Major Reeves View Post
Welcome to the EUSSR, crippling bureaucracy and mountains of money to keep a certain elite of unelected officials and a kangaroo parliament happy while those down bellow suffer. Just like it was in the soviet union or in any other collectivist regime.
Oh please. Having safety standards for consumer products is not communism.

And I'll take the EU's exemplary consumer protection laws over the "lube up and get ready to be laissez-faired by job creators" lobby-fest of the US.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 08:30 AM   #484
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Originally Posted by AidenShaw View Post
Why do you defend Apple here?

The Apple Pro is supported with a limited number of mostly out-of-date graphics cards.

If the Dell supports newer, faster, more GPGPU-capable cards - then the Dell is faster for the fairly common GPGPU-enabled apps.

Dell can do it - Apple can't. Excuses don't matter.
Downloading Nvidia drivers you can use up to date Nvidia cards in the Mac Pro. Mac OSX has drivers written for ATI/AMD Graphics cards not advertised in the Apple store.

You can use off the shelve PC cards in the Mac Pro for a number of years now.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 09:41 AM   #485
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Originally Posted by MacRumorUser View Post
Yes. Real professionals use them, hence 'you' havent seen one in ages j/k
No 'real' professionals use real workstations. Not outdated Apple stuff that doesn't even have a reduntant power supply.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 09:55 AM   #486
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Originally Posted by Matt Leaf View Post
i think, that even in the absence of a new Mac Pro, business and education haven't swayed from adopting the iMac as its daily workhorse, which I have seen in countless workplaces and schools in recent times.
Agree. I'm seeing iMacs and Minis in more and more locations, sometimes where I might have expected to see a Mac Pro.
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Originally Posted by Matt Leaf View Post
anyone with half a brain would have built a hackintosh already or a beast pc machine if they needed the power.
No. No. No. I say this over and over again in various threads. Some of us do not want to have to spend the time doing the research, buying the parts, assembling, and testing a system. Having to wait before I can install a "critical" update because I don't know if the OS update will break something. Having to research every peripheral purchase to make sure it will work. Then dealing with multiple vendors for warranty work if something goes wrong. I *can* do all that - I have built numerous PCs in the past. I don't *want* to do that... I am a photographer... and meddling with the bits is no longer fun. It's aggravating and it means I am not working at my career, which I love.

Having an Apple made Mac Pro means that for 3 years I just drop it off at the store for repairs. It means I can call and talk to Apple about just about anything to do with the HW and the OS for three years, no charge to determine whether it is an OS or HW problem. If it's OS I reinstall. If it's HW I drop it off, and they can figure out which part went pfftt. Meanwhile I can continue taking photos.
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Originally Posted by Matt Leaf View Post
...
The only way i see a new Mac Pro coming along is if they completely reinvent the wheel somehow. They won't just bring out another tower.
(Emphasis added).... I agree. I think this tower is done.
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Originally Posted by Matt Leaf View Post
If anything, I think they'll hold true to their values - which is the the idea of the 'hub of your digital life'. ....
I think that has been changing lately. Just read a good argument that now the Cloud is your hub. Not saying it's a good idea, but it was a compelling argument that that is what Apple is thinking.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 10:32 AM   #487
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Originally Posted by blackburn View Post
No 'real' professionals use real workstations. Not outdated Apple stuff that doesn't even have a reduntant power supply.
"Real" professional? You either are a professional using a computer as a tool or you aren't. Real professionals are using home built PCs with consumer parts, iMacs, laptops, Mac Pros and everything in between. Only a few high-end workstation models from places like Super Micro have redundant power supplies.

Certainly not from the major vendors who make up the majority of sales. Dell, HP, Lenovo, Apple, AVA Direct, BOXX .. none of these offer redundant PSU options as far as I know.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 11:11 AM   #488
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Originally Posted by blackburn View Post
No 'real' professionals use real workstations. Not outdated Apple stuff that doesn't even have a reduntant power supply.
It's a common feature in servers, not so much in workstations.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 12:37 PM   #489
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I would like to see the sales data for MP in europe ... I know I have bought one early last year. Who gives a ship if they discontinue the tower.... Nobody is buying it anymore. My MP will last me another 2-3 years, since I have put a Geforce 670 in it. By the time i am going to buy another computer, a pro mac will probably be made, but it will still be risky to buy one. I cannot invest in mac environment for my colleagues and then be abandoned.... what is this?
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 01:30 PM   #490
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Originally Posted by linuxcooldude View Post
Downloading Nvidia drivers you can use up to date Nvidia cards in the Mac Pro. Mac OSX has drivers written for ATI/AMD Graphics cards not advertised in the Apple store.

You can use off the shelve PC cards in the Mac Pro for a number of years now.
Look at http://www.nvidia.com/page/partner_c...d_drivers.html ....

To mix-and-match random "off the shelve" graphics cards with random driver downloads isn't the norm in the workstation market - when you run software packages that cost from about the price of the machine to many times more, you want the software partner to certify the drivers.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 01:57 PM   #491
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If they were to really discontinue the Mac Pro lineup, why do it in stages i.e. Europe, Asia, US etc? Surely thats asking for public bashing... you'd rather just do it the once and thats the end of it.

I guess it is genuinely down to the European laws and that there is some sort of replacement / refresh coming to the Mac Pros later down the line.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 03:45 PM   #492
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Originally Posted by LeandrodaFL View Post
People still buy MacPro?
Yes, those of us who work for a living, sitting in front of computer screens all day—creative professionals. My US-based company bought a bunch last year. Now, the rumors have us afraid to do anything, as we wait to see what Tim & company have come up with.

We too are afraid the 2013 MacPro will lack most of the professional features which are required for real work (PCIe, Firewire 800, internal hard drives, upgradeable RAM, upgradeable graphics cards).

Quote:
Originally Posted by killmoms View Post
Only if Thunderbolt gets a TON more bandwidth overnight. TB only has as much bandwidth as a single (!) 4x PCIe slot. That’s not enough to serve a single card that requires 8x PCIe bandwidth (or a graphics card seeking 16x), much less multiple cards.
Why does no one else seem to know this? According to Wikipedia, killmoms is correct. Rumor-mongers have many convinced at this point that cheap consumer computers are all that Apple will produce from now on, with Thunderbolt as the interface to outboard boxes of professional gear. Apple will have to have something up its sleeve if it eliminates PCIe.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 04:47 PM   #493
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Why does no one else seem to know this?
Like:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthre...9#post16707059
?
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 04:48 PM   #494
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Originally Posted by The Samurai View Post
If they were to really discontinue the Mac Pro lineup, why do it in stages i.e. Europe, Asia, US etc? Surely thats asking for public bashing... you'd rather just do it the once and thats the end of it.

I guess it is genuinely down to the European laws and that there is some sort of replacement / refresh coming to the Mac Pros later down the line.
I've noticed in the last couple of years that the Dell and Lenovo workstations and desktops that I buy have a grille

(like Thumb resize.)

on the internal side of the fans.

I thought that this was cool, because it eliminated the odd problem where an internal cable would move and touch the fan blades - creating quite a terrible racket.

Now, it seems likely that the other companies added 50¢ grilles to the fans on their $500 systems to meet the EU regulations - but that Apple couldn't afford the margin hit to do the same with their $2500 systems.

We're not talking about re-engineering the system here - it's a trivial, obvious fix.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 07:10 PM   #495
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Okay, let's forget what the word "flagship" means for a moment and think about this. If you were Apple, and you had to remove one of the following products from your lineup, which would you choose?
  • iPhone
  • iPad
  • iMac
  • Mac Mini
  • MacBook Pro
  • Mac Pro

I'm not sure anyone rational would pick any product except the Mac Pro. It's a niche product and Apple's lowest selling machine, with a very low market penetration in the workstation market.

I know it sucks if it's the type of machine that suits your needs, but Apple just isn't interested in you anymore. I wouldn't be either if I knew I could sell 1,000,000 iPhones for every Mac Pro sold. You're not important in the market anymore.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 08:04 PM   #496
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Originally Posted by Lennholm View Post
You wrote: "A flagship is always the highest profile (often luxury type status) and/or most powerful product offered".
That is simply not true. That is only the case if the company specifically makes their most powerful/luxurious product their most prominent one
Sorry, but most prominent <> flagship. Again, Toyota's flagship is not the freaking Camry, Corolla or even the Prius (despite them being the most prominent Toyotas on the road these days in that order). Toyota's flagship is the AVALON. Do a search on Google. It'll come right up. It's the flagship because it's the most luxurious highest profile car they make under the Toyota brand label. Prominence has NOTHING to do with it or the Camry would be the flagship.

Thus, Apple's flagship MAC would have to be either the top of the line iMac or Mac Pro these days (debatable since Apple has virtually abandoned the Mac Pro and it's losing power by the minute; if they update the Mac Pro properly, it will certainly be the flagship once again). It doesn't have to be prominent, popular or well advertised. It simply has to be the highest standard top of the line product in its category.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AidenShaw View Post
Now, it seems likely that the other companies added 50¢ grilles to the fans on their $500 systems to meet the EU regulations - but that Apple couldn't afford the margin hit to do the same with their $2500 systems.

We're not talking about re-engineering the system here - it's a trivial, obvious fix.
I agree 100%. Apple is beyond contempt in this regard. There is simply no excuse for their lack of caring to the point where they not only let the machine go out of date, refuse to do a 50 cent safety fix, but they don't even lower prices to match the loss of value of the machine from all the years of no updates. Anyone selling a single product in this manner would go OUT OF BUSINESS in short order. Apple is proving again and again they SIMPLY DON'T CARE about the Pro markets anymore.

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Originally Posted by Dudical View Post
Okay, let's forget what the word "flagship" means for a moment and think about this. If you were Apple, and you had to remove one of the following products from your lineup, which would you choose?
  • iPhone
  • iPad
  • iMac
  • Mac Mini
  • MacBook Pro
  • Mac Pro

I'm not sure anyone rational would pick any product except the Mac Pro. It's a niche product and Apple's lowest selling machine, with a very low market penetration in the workstation market.

I know it sucks if it's the type of machine that suits your needs, but Apple just isn't interested in you anymore. I wouldn't be either if I knew I could sell 1,000,000 iPhones for every Mac Pro sold. You're not important in the market anymore.
I'd choose the iMac. I don't like the idea of it at all. Shoving a computer into the back of a monitor compromises the entire design integrity of the system and the newest iMac makes this more obvious than ever. You often can't use desktop parts due to lack of space and heat distribution. Upgradeability is fatally compromised both in terms of upgrading existing parts and adding new ones.

The entire idea of the iMac is to get rid of desktop clutter, but to back it up (short of buying a Time Capsule and putting it out of the way somewhere), you have to plug in external junk and clutter up your desk anyway (whereas many computer desks have a nice space in them dedicated for a tower and a good sized tower can house many hard drives, cards, etc. and therefore take up NO DESKTOP SPACE. The iMac has a real problem if the monitor fails as well since you can't just plug in a new one and continue on your way. You have to fix it at some point and that's a PITA.

The biggest problem with the Mac Pro is that it's just a workstation level computer. They could easily expand the line into the consumer level tower arena and offer a sub-$2k machine for things like gaming, etc. with support for SLI and high-end graphics cards at a competitive price to the iMac. But they don't because Steve wanted to push his "neat and thin" concept onto people whether they liked it or not. The problem is that such a design CANNOT function as a reasonable graphics platform where more performance is needed (whether for real-time Pro 3D apps or gaming). Apple has continually ignored this market segment and fan boys have continually spouted that no one games on a Mac (both untrue and a chicken/egg scenario since a lack of gaming hardware discourages gaming development/ports).
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 08:23 PM   #497
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I know it sucks if it's the type of machine that suits your needs, but Apple just isn't interested in you anymore. I wouldn't be either if I knew I could sell 1,000,000 iPhones for every Mac Pro sold. You're not important in the market anymore.
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Here’s to the crazy ones. The misfits. The rebels. The troublemakers. The round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things differently. They’re not fond of rules. And they have no respect for the status quo

You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them. But the only thing you can’t do is ignore them. Because they change things. They push the human race forward. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius.

Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
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Now it's all MBA Tim and the bean counters, and the sheep bleat along....
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 08:33 PM   #498
MagnusVonMagnum
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Now it's all MBA Tim and the bean counters, and the sheep bleat along....
I dunno. Steve Jobs personally picked Tim Cook to take over Apple. If he's just a bean counter, why did Steve pick him? Frankly, I think Apple lost its soul long before that point. Steve became more and more disconnected with average computer users and more and more obsessed with the iPhone/iPad. He simply didn't CARE about Macs and especially Mac Pros anymore. Tim thinks the same way. Just look at his comments about hardly ever using a Mac anymore, just his iPad.

I've said for a long time now they need someone to head up the Mac division that CARES about it and make it a priority and largely separate from the people that work on iOS so they don't keep getting put on the back burner when something comes up. Apple has more than enough cash to hire enough programmers to get the job done. And now that Steve is gone, the paranoia can perhaps be dialed down a few notches to where it's reasonable to hire more people rather than being paranoid about every single person they interview.

Personally, I'm not an Apple investor. I don't need them to be innovative. I just want them to stay UP TO DATE in their hardware and software offerings. That means good GPUs in some models and adding things like OpenGL 4.x and perhaps overhauling the Finder (e.g. XtraFinder just freaking ROCKS by comparison and it's a modfication of the existing Finder. If one guy in his spare time can improve the Finder for FREE, WTF is Apple's excuse???)
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 08:44 PM   #499
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Frankly, I think Apple lost its soul long before that point.
Agree - I didn't mean to imply that Cook's arrival caused the loss of soul. Apple lost its soul while Jobs was here.

But "thinking differently" is certainly gone from the Apple cult(ure) - just look back at the firestorm of negative comments when the rumours that the Iphone V would have a screen bigger than 3.5" appeared. And look at all of the hateful comments when photos of Iphone V parts with a 4" screen appeared.... Look at the comments about a possible 5" Iphone....

Or a 7" Ipad....
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 09:17 PM   #500
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Agree - I didn't mean to imply that Cook's arrival caused the loss of soul. Apple lost its soul while Jobs was here.

But "thinking differently" is certainly gone from the Apple cult(ure) - just look back at the firestorm of negative comments when the rumours that the Iphone V would have a screen bigger than 3.5" appeared. And look at all of the hateful comments when photos of Iphone V parts with a 4" screen appeared.... Look at the comments about a possible 5" Iphone....

Or a 7" Ipad....
Apple has inspired worshippers/feverish cultist types for lack of a better way of putting it (typically called "fanboys") and that means that whatever Apple says is gospel. They don't think for themselves. They just push the Apple agenda as they understand it. That's a radical departure from the old days when Amiga fans liked Amigas because they were cool for media and Mac fans liked Macs because they were GUI when MSDos was just a command line. It's now the Cult of Steve (or maybe Cult of Apple now that he's gone) and they might even be a minority of users, but they're very vocal and that makes it seem like they're everywhere.

I wanted a smaller pad and a larger iPod Touch years ago and you're right, they thumped all over that suggestion. Now that Apple offers EXACTLY THAT, it's the best idea since sliced bread....
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