Register FAQ / Rules Forum Spy Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > MacRumors.com News Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Jan 31, 2013, 09:37 PM   #126
derek
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Syracuse, NY
Send a message via ICQ to derek Send a message via AIM to derek
Java ≠ JavaScript ≠ Java ≠ JavaScript... X ∞

Quote:
Originally Posted by sectime View Post
You know Java exploit and Javascript in Safari are two different things? Javascript is not blocked by Apple. At least on the ten machines at my workplace.
Java and JavaScript have NO relation to each other. The term 'JavaScript' was a poor marketing decision by Netscape and Sun Microsystems for gawd knows what reason. That's what marketing people do, apparently.

The actual, modern day name for what used to be JavaScript has been ECMAScript for many years. The term 'JavaScript' is now merely a quaint term of nostalgia. Keep that in mind when you see it.

My brief history of ECMAScript:
1) Netscape creates a 'safe' web scripting language they called 'Mocha'.
2) They change its name to 'LiveScript'.
3) Marketing dweebs at both Netscape and Sun get together and agree that Netscape can change the name to 'JavaScript'. You figure out why. No one else has.
4) Adobe and Microsoft want in on the action and toss more scripting code onto the Internet called 'ActiveScript' and 'JScript'. It wreaked havoc on the Internet.
5) The ECMA (European Computer Manufacturers Association) attempt to bring sanity to the situation and combine all three into a standard specification called 'ECMA-262' or 'ISO/IEC 16262'. But that's annoying technobabble, so it's simply called 'ECMAScript'.

And again, there never has been ANY relationship between Java and JavaScript. None. Zero. Nothing. They only share the letters J A V A. The end.

Wikipedia.org is your pal. Look up ECMAScript and read all about it.
__________________
Fortune Magazine 11-29-05: What's your computer setup today?
Frederick Brooks: I happily use a Macintosh. It's not been equaled for ease of use, and I want my computer to be a tool, not a challenge.

Last edited by derek; Jan 31, 2013 at 09:42 PM. Reason: I wrote it. I edit it.
derek is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 01:18 AM   #127
ulyssesric
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Conspiracy ?

Not only Apple, Mozilla had also blocked Java by default in their latest FireFox release. Though you can still re-enable Java in FireFox manually, every time.

Is there anything really, really nasty happened in the past few days and the public don't know yet ?
ulyssesric is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 01:29 AM   #128
Oletros
macrumors 603
 
Oletros's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PremiÓ de Mar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech198 View Post
Could't Apple do its own Java.... period ? That way only they will control it, and most importantly, it will always be more secure. It can't be any less secure than what we currently have.
Apple was making their own Java until more less two years ago.
And no, it was not more secure than Oracle's one, it lagged behind
__________________
There are four kinds of lies: Lies, damned lies, statistics, and analyst projections.
Oletros is online now   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 05:06 AM   #129
chriswhocodes
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Fixable by editing XProtect.meta.plist

This change is affecting millions of online banking users in Brazil and Norway. Stupid move by Apple.

Here are the instructions for getting Java 1.7.11 plugin working again in Safari
http://www.chrisnewland.com/java-on-...ist-update-331
chriswhocodes is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 08:32 AM   #130
Four oF NINE
macrumors 6502a
 
Four oF NINE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Soviet Union
I think this is Apple's way of nudging Oracle into some sort of action. This is THEIR screwup, not Apple's.

I'm grateful for their intervention.
Four oF NINE is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 09:48 AM   #131
Weaselboy
macrumors G5
 
Weaselboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacMan988 View Post
How do they block and unblock ? Do they send any updates through App Store? I did not get any kind of updates from Apple.
Apple is doing it in the background by updating a xprotect.plist file that can block certain sites/processes. It does not come through the App Store and you get no notice that this has occurred, leading to some of the problems we see in this thread. Over the last couple days there have been several new forum posts from users who all of a sudden can't access their bank's web site for example because of the update.

It would be nice if Apple notified users of a change like this.
Weaselboy is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 10:46 AM   #132
PaulKemp
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Norway
Quote:
Originally Posted by haruhiko View Post
It seems to me that relying on a third party platform like Java for crucial systems like online banking is not a very great idea. The user interface should be transparent to the user and doesn't require any plug-ins. Most online banking / transaction system here in Hong Kong completely ditched the requirement of Java browser plug-in recently.
That may be, but it doesnt really help me as a end user. I cant choose this or that. This is a federation of all the banks in Norway. They will probably in the future move away form jave, but that has not happened yet. So this is stupid of Apple, they are going over the threshold.
__________________
iMac i7 3.4 GHz, 24 GB Ram, 256 SSD | MBA 2011 i5 1.7 GHz, 4 GB Ram | Mini i7 2.0 GHz, 4 GB Ram, RAID 0 | iPad 2 16 GB | iPhone 5 16 GB | ATV 3
Remember to quote orignal post.
PaulKemp is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 10:53 AM   #133
rbgros1
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Java not blocked in Safari 5.1 with Java 1.7 update 11

I downloaded Safari 5.1 from http://mac.oldapps.com/safari.php. (The page says 5.1.1, but I got 5.1.7.) It runs Java applets, even with Java 1.7 update 11 installed. Doesn't solve any security issues, but at least you can run your trusted applets. I'm running MacOS 10.7.5.
rbgros1 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 10:54 AM   #134
WiseByte
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
There's an App for That :-)

For those who are plist challenged, there is now an app for that https://www.dropbox.com/s/ckyo32fswx...0Unblocker.dmg
WiseByte is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 11:42 AM   #135
twigman08
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by topmike View Post
This is too funny


I went to www.icloud.com to make some changes to my account - which for some reason, the icloud site uses JavaScript!

Of course Safari blocks access to it. The screenshot was from Safari.

(I think MacRumors uses Java to submit reply's too.....)
Even though this has been already said Java and JavaScript have absolutely o relation to each other at all except they both for some unknown reason have "Java" in their name. From what I know their is absolutely NOTHING shared between them.

While their are still "uses" of Java (though as a programmer I would argue that just about any web app that uses Java I and others could make using some other web language) where you really don't want/need to block use too, Java on the web needs to disappear.

I've been tempted to offer to write some newer software for some companies or schools that still use Java where it is not needed.

Schools gradebook system? While not "easy" to program fully, I could write a web app that'd I'd argue would be even more secure than the one they currently use and could probably even get more features packed into and still make it just as usable as what they currently use.

I can't remember the last time I turned on Java. Tell you the truth, I can't even remember the last time I had any web app actually tell me it needs Java to run. Though yes I do understand other people have different needs and can see how this is a big inconvenience.
twigman08 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 12:35 PM   #136
resm
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Singapore
Brazil & Norway ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chriswhocodes View Post
This change is affecting millions of online banking users in Brazil and Norway. Stupid move by Apple.

Here are the instructions for getting Java 1.7.11 plugin working again in Safari
http://www.chrisnewland.com/java-on-...ist-update-331
I'm in Singapore and can't access my bank account !!!
__________________
Life is like a Box of Chocolates
macrumors very own Willy Wonka
resm is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 01:40 PM   #137
SmileyBlast!
macrumors 6502a
 
SmileyBlast!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveTheRave View Post
Oh...so you think Apple contacted my company's IT department to tell them they were going to disable Java?
You'd think that a Bank IT department would have a support contract with their hardware vendor and a sales rep or support rep they could call for quick answers.

Plus its their job to be looking for these kinds of bulletins and sending a resultant message to the office staff when outages occur.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonatron View Post
I think you're missing the point and being very naive. I have no problem with Apple securing system at all. Its great they are proactively making updates. However to force this on people with no explanation is plain unnacceptable. I spent a long time trying to work out what was wrong with no error or guidance from Apple.

A lot of people use business systems that rely on Java. Software companies cannot simply turn around compatible updates at the drop of a hat. We are going to have to use a brand new version of java that is unsupported for using our finance system.

The choice here is that if Apple continues to do this then we will be moving away from the mac platform from for a number of our users as we cannot afford to have obstacles such as this in our way.

I'm not asking them to do nothing just behave in a controlled and mature way.

At the very least all they had to do was say we're going to disable this in X days and I would have been able to come up with a workaround. Instead I have had an entire department lose a days work.

Whats even more frustrating is Im going to have to disable the safe downloads completely for all of our users which means they are going to miss out on future updates to this list. Ultimately making us less secure. Great.
Yes I agree. That would have been a more measured response.
I find it hard to believe they didn't announce this to their customers somehow.
SmileyBlast! is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 02:09 PM   #138
mpolda
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Sadly, not true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RMo View Post
Do you really do most of the work on your computer with Java plug-in applets? My understanding is that, like last time, regular desktop applications (JARs, including those launched as part of a packaged APP bundle) will work fine.
Oh, I wish that were true. As a teacher my standalone gradebook won't open, nor will other browsers work.
mpolda is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 02:11 PM   #139
rafiki
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Java updated to Version 7 Update 13

http://java.com/en/download/

Only for 10.7.3 or higher...not sure about 10.6.x

Last edited by rafiki; Feb 1, 2013 at 02:30 PM. Reason: Include OS version specific note
rafiki is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 02:47 PM   #140
Blu-ray1972
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger8 View Post
Oracle bought all those companies and products that they have absolutely no clue how to support or further develop.

I do work in two used-to-be-great enterprise software packages, both went downhill since the original company was bought by Oracle.
I am in the same boat. I'm also quite displeased in their lack of Mac support for some of their programs for supporting DBs.
Blu-ray1972 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 03:05 PM   #141
C DM
macrumors G4
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by rafiki View Post
http://java.com/en/download/

Only for 10.7.3 or higher...not sure about 10.6.x
Yup, looks like Oracle put out Java 7 Update 13 with some additional fixes just earlier today, so this should resolve this issue.

That aside, when Apple does it, all it affects is the ability of Java plug-in to run in Safari, that is it. Java applications running outside the browser are unaffected, nor is Java plug-ins in any other browser. So, it really shouldn't be that big of an issue for vast majority of people--at worst simply use another browser like Firefox (which is vastly more popular than Safari anyway).

And, to repeat, JavaScript has absolutely nothing to do with Java, aside from simply having "Java" as part of its name.
C DM is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 04:02 PM   #142
C DM
macrumors G4
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
http://www.macrumors.com/2013/02/01/...ug-in-on-os-x/
C DM is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 04:31 PM   #143
sectime
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by derek View Post
Java and JavaScript have NO relation to each other. The term 'JavaScript' was a poor marketing decision by Netscape and Sun Microsystems for gawd knows what reason. That's what marketing people do, apparently.

The actual, modern day name for what used to be JavaScript has been ECMAScript for many years. The term 'JavaScript' is now merely a quaint term of nostalgia. Keep that in mind when you see it.

My brief history of ECMAScript:
1) Netscape creates a 'safe' web scripting language they called 'Mocha'.
2) They change its name to 'LiveScript'.
3) Marketing dweebs at both Netscape and Sun get together and agree that Netscape can change the name to 'JavaScript'. You figure out why. No one else has.
4) Adobe and Microsoft want in on the action and toss more scripting code onto the Internet called 'ActiveScript' and 'JScript'. It wreaked havoc on the Internet.
5) The ECMA (European Computer Manufacturers Association) attempt to bring sanity to the situation and combine all three into a standard specification called 'ECMA-262' or 'ISO/IEC 16262'. But that's annoying technobabble, so it's simply called 'ECMAScript'.

And again, there never has been ANY relationship between Java and JavaScript. None. Zero. Nothing. They only share the letters J A V A. The end.

Wikipedia.org is your pal. Look up ECMAScript and read all about it.
I'm thinking you didn't even read my post, but it appears you enjoyed writing your response
sectime is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 05:15 PM   #144
RMo
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Iowa, USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpolda View Post
Oh, I wish that were true. As a teacher my standalone gradebook won't open, nor will other browsers work.
It's been updated now, but Firefox still worked for me when this happened the time before this. You just have to click to enable the plugin.
RMo is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 05:29 PM   #145
sonynair
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayK View Post
Have you found a way to disable XProtect (Automatically update safe downloads list) through command line means? I cannot seem to find what plist this is modifying. This has been driving me nuts for weeks.
Disable XProtectupdater via command line...

Code:
sudo launchctl unload -w /System/Library/LaunchDaemons/com.apple.xprotectupdater.plist

Re-enable XProtectupdater via command line...

Code:
sudo launchctl load -w /System/Library/LaunchDaemons/com.apple.xprotectupdater.plist
Regards

Last edited by sonynair; Feb 1, 2013 at 05:40 PM.
sonynair is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 09:26 PM   #146
Tiger8
macrumors 68000
 
Join Date: May 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu-ray1972 View Post
I am in the same boat. I'm also quite displeased in their lack of Mac support for some of their programs for supporting DBs.
We need a 'oracle ruined it' support group
Tiger8 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 11:43 PM   #147
MagnusVonMagnum
macrumors 68040
 
MagnusVonMagnum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech198 View Post
I agree, it is ridiculous that Apple is cleaning up someone else's continuous mess, in this case (Oracle's)

Could't Apple do its own Java.... period ? That way only they will control it, and most importantly, it will always be more secure. It can't be any less secure than what we currently have.
Uh, Java is a standard and so they can't just start some tangent, but they could maintain their own version and fix security flaws. The thing is they DID do their own version prior to Java7. They did NOT want to maintain it any longer and that's why they handed it off to Oracle to maintain themselves.

In general, Windows has had a gazillion exploits in it over the years. If Microsoft came along and disabled all Windows computers every time one was found, the whole world would come to a halt. Apple needs simple bypass controls with a warning rather than just stopping all the Macs on the planet. As someone pointed out earlier, that can potentially do more damage than any Malware out there since it affects EVERYONE whether they're careful or not (and not in a positive fashion if you NEED to run the Java plugin).

Like I said earlier, though. My Mac Mini with OSX 10.8.2 continued to operate Java after this supposed second block was put into place, so I can't verify ANY accuracy of this article (and yes my security was still set to download updates). It just asks me if I want to run it or not. That's what it SHOULD do.

Meanwhile, I just checked it again and it did block it in a way...rather it told me there's an update available I need to download first.
__________________
Mac Mini Server 2012 (2.3GHz Quad i7, 8GB, 2x1TB RAID 0) ; External 12x Memorex Blu-Ray USB3, External WD 3x3TB,1x2TB HD USB3)
15" Matte MBP 2.4GHz, 4GB/500GB, NVidia 8600M GT; 3 ATV; 2 iPod Touch
MagnusVonMagnum is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 2, 2013, 04:06 AM   #148
Tech198
macrumors 68040
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Australia, Perth
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnusVonMagnum View Post
Uh, Java is a standard and so they can't just start some tangent, but they could maintain their own version and fix security flaws. The thing is they DID do their own version prior to Java7. They did NOT want to maintain it any longer and that's why they handed it off to Oracle to maintain themselves.
Ya, i know this. But obviously something is needed here... ... Apple may not want to do this, but they may have had better chances in the long run. Handing it off to some other company to take care off, your falling under their terms based on when they want to fix it..

From a security perspective, fixing it quicker makes sense.
__________________
13" MBPR, i5, 256Gig SDD, 8 Gig Ram, Apple TV, iPhone 5S 16Gig, iPad 16Gig, Mac Mini 2.3Ghz i7, 1TB HD
"There are no stupid questions, just stupid people."
Tech198 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 2, 2013, 07:21 AM   #149
MvdM
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
HOW do they block Java? I see no security update or something else I can download.
MvdM is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 4, 2013, 10:54 PM   #150
axual
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Pathetic

What a mess.
axual is offline   0 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > MacRumors.com News Discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Apple Releases New Java 6 Updates With Enhanced Security, Uninstalls Apple-Provided Java Applet Plug-in MacRumors Mac Blog Discussion 49 Oct 22, 2013 09:58 AM
Apple Again Blocks Older Versions of Java Over Vulnerability MacRumors Mac Blog Discussion 27 Sep 2, 2013 02:40 PM
Apple Releases Safari and Java Updates With Plug-In and Security Improvements MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 77 Apr 23, 2013 03:09 PM
Oracle Releases Java 7 Update 13 to Address Security Issues, Reenable Web Plug-in on OS X MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 134 Feb 17, 2013 12:40 PM
Apple Blocks Java 7 Plug-in on OS X to Address Widespread Security Threat MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 247 Jan 19, 2013 02:22 PM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:14 PM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC