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Old Jun 17, 2012, 02:32 PM   #26
macbook123
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Originally Posted by Confuzzzed View Post
I was trying to give you broader arguments, particularly as many people are calling for retina MBAs at present. You chose to focus on one aspect. Ok. Good luck. But as I said higher up, IPS would probably increase the weight. Which is not acceptable to me as an MBA owner. My perspective. Take it or leave it.

----------

PS. 70% of answers are focussing on the same points I made so perhaps we"re all superficial with your original post or you are not very clear
Maybe yeah. Sorry about that. Anyway, I appreciate your responses and apologize if I came across as offensive.

Let me inquire about this: do you know for a fact that IPS technology increases the weight.

Thanks.
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Old Jun 17, 2012, 02:33 PM   #27
Nebrie
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Originally Posted by macbook123 View Post
Did you even read the original post??

If anything, the only thing sucking up more battery would be higher resolution. But I'm not asking for higher resolution. I'm asking for IPS. Are you saying that the iPhone and iPad have ****** battery life? No? Good, because they have IPS panels.
IPS DOES eat up more battery. Read more about it here http://www.pctechguide.com/flat-pane...g-lcd-monitors

The reason the iPhone and iPad can have it is because they are essentially giant batteries with tiny logic boards attached to them. The rMBP can have it because instead of a wedge, it has more battery. People are already whining about the lack of battery life in the airs.

Apple would have to pick - ips but heavier and thicker To accommodate a larger battery or no ips. They chose the latter.
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Old Jun 17, 2012, 02:36 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by palpatine View Post
The problem with having a retina display iPad is that nothing looks good anymore That doesn't mean it is all bad or not "decent."
Yeah...and my current problem with having received a new RMBP is that its display is just as good as that if the iPad 3, and makes reading and viewing graphics on the Air even more unsatisfying than before. That said, the Pro is just so much heavier.

My optimal laptop would be the 13.3" Air with a 14" IPS panel with 1650x1080 resolution fit in the same form factor (decreasing the humongous bezel size a little bit). From everything I have read about iPS, this could be done without additional power consumption, the only additional draw from the display coming from the slightly larger display size in that case. I would pay $3k for this laptop personally.

Part of the reason for Apple's omission might that they still have lots of execs from the old days where their pro line laptops were mostly used by professionals needing similar computing power as a desktop machine. The fact today is that many people use these things for less demanding computing tasks, but still read and view documents and would like to do so in the best way possible. Apple doesn't seem to realize this.
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Old Jun 17, 2012, 02:44 PM   #29
palpatine
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Originally Posted by macbook123 View Post
Yeah...and my current problem with having received a new RMBP is that its display is just as good as that if the iPad 3, and makes reading and viewing graphics on the Air even more unsatisfying than before. That said, the Pro is just so much heavier.

My optimal laptop would be the 13.3" Air with a 14" IPS panel with 1650x1080 resolution fit in the same form factor (decreasing the humongous bezel size a little bit). From everything I have read about iPS, this could be done without additional power consumption, the only additional draw from the display coming from the slightly larger display size in that case. I would pay $3k for this laptop personally.
I wouldn't. I bought the 2012 Air because it is inexpensive, well-designed, and a safe bet. I have no interest in spending more money for it, and even though competitors are coming out with IPS, QC remains to be seen. I trust Apple to tread carefully between innovation and proven performance. They usually do a great job of mixing the two.

Speaking as an Android and Windows user, the level of constant irritation I have had to put up with (mainly from poor software / hardware integration) is enough to make me quite pleased that I can use Apple products that work, and work well. When they can do that with IPS, more power to them!
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 03:39 AM   #30
EvanBlive91
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Originally Posted by Bigmacduck View Post
Apple has not yet offered Retina displays on Macbook Air because of two reasons.
1. Product Positioning and Price Points
Skimming the professional market first as the displays are only produced at low volumes first and therefore focussing on a market segment that is less likely to turn every dollar before it is spent. If successful, then the volume goes up and manufacturing costs come down and the product becomes viable for introducing in the mass market = Air's.

2. Battery chemistry and life.
High resolution displays draw more power than lover resolution because there are more transistors per panel that need to switch. One example is the iPad 3 Retina, vs iPad 2: while almost offering the same run time as the iPad 2, the iPad 3 has a totally different battery system and capacity. Fully charging an iPad 3 from almost empty to full takes a full night, much slower than a full iPad 2 charge cycle. While that works well for the usage pattern of a tablet, it is not adequate for the usage pattern of a notebook that draws much more power.

If you charge a LiOn or LiPo battery with a too high current the battery explodes (some impressive videos on youtube). If you charge such a high capacity battery with today's technology of a safe charge current then it takes ages to a full charge.

The MacBook Pro Retina is bigger and therefore has more space for battery, which is a good workable compromise between battery capacity and charge current.

As a rule of thumb a standard rechargeable battery reaches the highest life time if the current to charge it is about the same as the current consumed in the discharge (that is not marketing, that is chemistry). So translated into hours of battery life (and demonstrated on the iPad3) a battery run time of 9 hours mandates a charge time of almost the same = 9 hours.

So I would love to have a Macbook Air with a battery run time of 12 hours, but I would not want to wait 10 hours to have it fully recharged again.

So here my call to action:
for all the bright undergraduate and gradient students out there:
Move to the study field of battery chemistry and you may make developments that truly change the world. Not just for MacBook Air's, but also for banking who needs better batteries to consume solar energy charged during the sunny day during the night.
Cool, now if only you focused on the fact of IPS and not retina resolution
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 10:42 AM   #31
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Uh...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Confuzzzed View Post
Simple. Battery life. If they give you what you want, you'd either half battery life or increase the size of the battery and meddle with portability.

Neither options are acceptable to me.

The resolution is fine for me also. And didn't find 2011 so shabby. In fact it's the opposite. The display of my 2011 13" MBA was better than my 2007 MBP. To get what you are asking for, I wouldn't want to compromise on battery life, weight and possible increased heat generation
Why do people keep expecting the Airs to have the same overall specs as rMBPs, but at a smaller form factor, lighter weight and compatible battery life?

Airs are about portability, which requires it to be small, with great battery life. The LAST thing I'd want is a screen that cuts from the barely four hours I'm getting now.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by macbook123 View Post

My optimal laptop would be the 13.3" Air with a 14" IPS panel with 1650x1080 resolution fit in the same form factor (decreasing the humongous bezel size a little bit). From everything I have read about iPS, this could be done without additional power consumption, the only additional draw from the display coming from the slightly larger display size in that case. I would pay $3k for this laptop personally.
You are in a very small minority willing to pay $3k for a laptop, let alone $3k for what is essentially an ultrabook.
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 11:01 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by macbook123 View Post
The fact today is that many people use these things for less demanding computing tasks, but still read and view documents and would like to do so in the best way possible. Apple doesn't seem to realize this.
Absolutely right. I never hear the fans on my 11" Air, because I don't work it that hard. I'd love it if the screen was sharp enough to display text as well as my iPad 3!
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 11:17 AM   #33
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The reason that Apple hasn't updated the screen yet is because of practical limits in resolution. You can shove a 1080p screen in an 11" Macbook Air, but the UI, etc. will be pretty small. They are aiming for retina eventually because it overcomes the scaling issues and is optimal in most respects. As for the IPS/PLS screen, they generally require more power. The screen on the Air is nothing to sneeze at, though I can sympathize with the viewing angles. My guess is that they'll see the screen updated within the next one or two generations.
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 01:35 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by tdhurst View Post
Why do people keep expecting the Airs to have the same overall specs as rMBPs, but at a smaller form factor, lighter weight and compatible battery life?

Airs are about portability, which requires it to be small, with great battery life. The LAST thing I'd want is a screen that cuts from the barely four hours I'm getting now.
I guess the reason it keeps entering my head is because I would like the screen I see on the 13.3" rMBP, but on the Air. I was looking at them side-by-side today at Fry's and it certainly seems like the LCD portion of the chassis could handle it on the Air.

But I haven't been considering battery life and that is an excellent point. Apple tech specs list 7 hours of wireless web for both the Air and the 13.3" rMBP. I have no idea what the power consumption difference is between the current 13.3" Air screen and the 13.3" Retina. That would be an interesting fact to find out.

5 hours of battery with a Retina screen would be fine with me.

The weight difference between the two machines is .61. It isn't a huge difference.

It will be interesting to see what Apple does. No pressure.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 11:28 PM   #35
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hey guys, do your think 2013 macbook line will upgrade the screen? going retina soon?
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 11:42 PM   #36
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No, I don't think the 2013 Airs will have retina. 2014, maybe, 2013? Unlikely.

It would be nice if they gave us an IPS display...but honestly, I expect modest bumps and haswell, that's it. Maybe they'll give us a dedicated HDMI? Actually, what I would really like is if they gave us a better keyboard...

For what it's worth, I don't think the Air screen is as bad as some of you guys are making it out to be. It's not an IPS, but it's decent for what it is.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 02:46 AM   #37
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I think the display is actually decent, and considering the form factor the machine also has decent battery life.

Unless battery technology goes warp speed this week, I doubt we'll see Retina on the Airs any time soon.

Also good calls on apple differentiating the product lines. Very true.

I have an Air 4,2 Core i7 1.8Ghz (2677M) with 4GB of RAM, and 256SSD. The display is quite good, but it sucks up a lot of battery power when playing 1080p video. I figure 3-4 hours of casual use. 5 hours ? Unless you are doing nothing but checking the clock, and have every feature turned off.

I won't upgrade this until the Core i9, 16GB RAM and Terabyte SSD options are available.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 03:41 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Glockron View Post
They really do need to crank up the resolution - maybe not to Retina, but at least a lot more.
Well...
Resolution is not problem free - something which is apparent to anyone working with visually challenged (such as people past their 40's and 50's), because as you add resolution to a screen of the same size, pixels become smaller and most graphical elements (e.g. web pages) follow suit. The retina way (multiplying pixels) is one potential solution, but outside of the optimal multiples (1:1 and 4:1) it has its problems (something well documented online).

IMHO, (and I am 35 and carry glasses) the 1280X800 of the 13" pro is not optimal and the 1440X900 of the 13" Air is better. My mother (68) disagrees.

So, following the limiting options scheme - Apple's current M.O. - I'd smell problems in cramming more pixels onto a 13" screen.

On the IPS/non-IPS issue, there are many bad IPS panels out there, and some very good non-IPS panels as well.

I trust Anand...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anandtech
Brightness, black levels, contrast, color accuracy and gamut haven't changed over the past year. The MacBook Air's panel remains one of the best non-IPS solutions on the market. The problem is that consumer insistence higher quality displays has pushed Apple's competitors to finally deliver more than TN at MacBook Air price points. Sooner rather than later, Apple will have to respond.
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