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Old Jan 19, 2013, 11:26 AM   #1
Skirimsl
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MacBook Pro no image to screen or external display, no light to Apple on lid

Hi,

After spending hours searching online trying to fix this issue I figured asking on here is penultimate option before speaking to Apple.

Right, a bit of background. I bought a 15" Macbook Pro, model A1226, 2.2Ghz Core 2 Duo, 2GBin in June 2007 in the UK, along with Applecare for it. It has stayed in the same stock configuration with no after market parts/components. I never even got around to upgrading the OS from Tiger I think I came with. It hasn't had a lot of use as I have a PC for main computing needs so the Macbook was primarily for use whilst traveling etc. All was well with it (except for the battery dying randomly which was replaced by Apple under the warranty) until maybe a year or so ago when playing video, if I paused it and it went to sleep, it would not wake up and I would have to power it off then on and it was fine. I put it down to me just not having upgraded the OS which seems silly thinking about it now.

And another minor thing was the light on the Magsafe charger wasn't always lit or it was a faint light until I unplugged it then plugged it back in a couple of times.

Fast forward to earlier this week and I turn it on connected to my TV, go away and make a sandwich and come back to blank screen and no light to the apple symbol on the lid. Hmm, that's odd. I guess I forget to turn it on. I went to turn it on and see the light on the lid release is on (continuously). Weird. I check screen brightness, unresponsive. Check the volume. I can hear it blipping up and down as I adjust it. Press number lock, caps lock and lights flash on and off.

Turn it off and on again, nothing changes. (No start up chime I might add) I start to worry and do some research. I do an NVRAM reset, first chime, OK, good so far, second chime, good, third chime, OK, odd. But still blank screen and now no response from volume, num lock keys.

I then connect to another Macbook with a firewire cable to to access it as an external drive. No problem. I was following a guide that said to delete the ghost image file or something that was keeping it in sleep mode. I deleted that and another file, turned it off and back on again. Nothing, still a blank screen. Crap.

Then I try a PMU reset. Turns on, chimes, great, screen comes on, loads GUI, I see my desktop. Success! Then I go to move the curser and nothing. Crap. It's locked up, no response from volume, num lock. I turn it off and on again, and back to square one. Black screen, no response from keyboard and I can no longer access it as an external disk with another Mac.

I have also tried multiple PMU and NVRAM resets.

Looking around it seems this model has a known fault with the GPU which caused Apple to increase the warranty by an extra year. So it seems it could be something to do with that, or more worryingly, the logic board, or a battery on the logic board?

So please tell me, how screwed am I? Does anyone have any suggestions? I really can't think of much else I can do.

Last edited by Skirimsl; Jan 19, 2013 at 11:32 AM.
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 11:38 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Skirimsl View Post
I bought a 15" Macbook Pro, model A1226, 2.2Ghz Core 2 Duo, 2GBin in June 2007 in the UK...
This model has probably one of the defective NVIDIA GPUs:
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...-bump-material

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Originally Posted by Skirimsl View Post
So please tell me, how screwed am I?
From:
http://support.apple.com/kb/TS2377

Quote:
The NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT graphics processor repair extension program ended on December 7, 2012.
See also:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=515067
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 11:41 AM   #3
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Yeah. I just came across that page. FML.

If I speak to Apple and ask really nicely do you think they might be able to help me out?

I mean, I heard sometimes they go out of their way for people.
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 12:19 PM   #4
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If I speak to Apple and ask really nicely do you think they might be able to help me out? I mean, I heard sometimes they go out of their way for people.
Try it! The “repair” is probably a logicboard with the same defective NVIDIA GPU. Only a MBP with a AMD GPU makes sense (Early-2011 and Late-2011).
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 12:23 PM   #5
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I definitely will. I cant believe this happened so close to the damn cut off date.

OK, update. I just overheated it by blocking the vents with a jumper for a while and sure enough, it's working for the moment. Now It just feels like it's a ticking time bomb :s

Last edited by Skirimsl; Jan 19, 2013 at 03:25 PM.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 08:12 AM   #6
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Only a MBP with a AMD GPU makes sense (Early-2011 and Late-2011).
So are there issues with the 9600MGT, 9400M, and GT 330M?

I was just thinking of flogging mine if Apple won't help me out and picking up a used 5,1 on ebay.

Looking at other people in similar situations that had theirs 'fixed' by Apple under the replacement scheme for free, they just put in a new supposedly tweaked GPU which still failed. Has anyone heard of Apple replacing one with a newer MBP without the dreaded 8600M GT?
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 07:00 AM   #7
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Well, Apple have proved themselves to be utter scum bags. They have refused to do anything so my only option now is pursue them via legal channels. No wonder they're so rich if they make their money from screwing over customers. I guess I have learnt my lesson. If you buy a Ferrari of laptop world, it will come with Ferrari problems.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 06:31 PM   #8
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I am pretty sure Apple stopped repairing non-unibody macbook pros a long time ago. They just recently stopped the NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT REP program last year for unibodies, as they're now focused on the 15' MBP Mid 2010 video REP.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 06:37 PM   #9
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They stopped fixing mine Dec 7th last year. I just figured there was some wiggle room. But no. I was just asking them to pay for the £300 repair but they've pissed me off now so I'm going to get a full refund through my credit card.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 07:35 AM   #10
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Well, Apple have proved themselves to be utter scum bags. They have refused to do anything so my only option now is pursue them via legal channels. No wonder they're so rich if they make their money from screwing over customers. I guess I have learnt my lesson. If you buy a Ferrari of laptop world, it will come with Ferrari problems.
I don't get that they're scumbags because they wouldn't replace something that was beyond it's publicized cutoff date.

Besides, the NVidia warranty was 4 years from date of purchase, or Dec 2012 whichever came first. Yours has been out of that coverage for well over a year and a half at time of failure.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 07:43 AM   #11
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You think it's acceptable for Apple to receive X amount from the $2M settlement for the class action lawsuit against Nvidia and then not use that to fix the very problem that instigated it?

I certainly don't. Anyway, they can talk all they want about their voluntary warranty but as I'm covered by EU law, that will protect me.

Last edited by Skirimsl; Feb 5, 2013 at 12:39 PM.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 01:29 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Skirimsl View Post
So are there issues with the 9600MGT, 9400M, and GT 330M?

I was just thinking of flogging mine if Apple won't help me out and picking up a used 5,1 on ebay.

Looking at other people in similar situations that had theirs 'fixed' by Apple under the replacement scheme for free, they just put in a new supposedly tweaked GPU which still failed. Has anyone heard of Apple replacing one with a newer MBP without the dreaded 8600M GT?
No. There isn't.

----------

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Originally Posted by Skirimsl View Post
You think it's acceptable for Apple to receive X amount from the $2M settlement for the class action lawsuit against Nvidia and then not use that to fix the very problem that instigated it?

I certainly don't. Anyway, they can talk all they want about their voluntary warranty but as I'm covered by EU law, that will protect me.
Doesn't the EU law protect you only for 2 years from date of purchase, meaning you have no legal recourse at all, even through your credit card?
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 01:53 PM   #13
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I definitely will. I cant believe this happened so close to the damn cut off date.

OK, update. I just overheated it by blocking the vents with a jumper for a while and sure enough, it's working for the moment. Now It just feels like it's a ticking time bomb :s
It definitely sounds like the NVidia problem - however you didn't just miss the cut off date. It's 4 years from the date of purchase - that date was just the last covered machine, so your coverage would have expired in 2011.

Sounds crazy, but people have had success baking the MLB - otherwise it's a new MLB.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 01:53 PM   #14
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Nope. It's longer than two years. Up to a judge at the end of the day if you took it to court but without going down that road, it is along the lines of lasting a reasonable time given their cost and quality. Add to that, the fact products must be free from defects that were not obvious at the time of purchase which it was not, I have a lot of power in this situation as far as the law is concerned.

It's quite interesting actually delving into consumer protection law and how much protection the consumer has. Most people don't realise this and just roll over when they could be better off by simply sticking to their guns and utilizing the law. These laws pretty much make Applecare redundant as they trump what Apple voluntarily puts out there.

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It definitely sounds like the NVidia problem - however you didn't just miss the cut off date. It's 4 years from the date of purchase - that date was just the last covered machine, so your coverage would have expired in 2011.

Sounds crazy, but people have had success baking the MLB - otherwise it's a new MLB.
Yeah, I just realised it was 4 years from date of purchase. Either way, the 4 people I have spoken to at Apple didn't grasp this and kept on saying if it was brought in on the 6th of Dec it would be fine. I guess perhaps they don't care rather than misinformed as I have already been told crap from one person that contradicted another. Oh well. I shall keep pursuing.

And I really don't want to bake it. Whilst I see it certainly does work, I want to avoid it at all costs.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 01:58 PM   #15
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Nope. It's longer than two years. Up to a judge at the end of the day if you took it to court but without going down that road, it is along the lines of lasting a reasonable time given their cost and quality. Add to that, the fact products must be free from defects that were not obvious at the time of purchase which it was not, I have a lot of power in this situation as far as the law is concerned.

It's quite interesting actually delving into consumer protection law and how much protection the consumer has. Most people don't realise this and just roll over when they could be better off by simply sticking to their guns and utilizing the law. These laws pretty much make Applecare redundant as they trump what Apple voluntarily puts out there.
5 and a half years for a laptop would be considered reasonable.

In the UK you'd be covered UP TO for 6 years - or whatever is considered reasonable less than that. Also, it's down to you to prove that the fault is actually that problem, or is another problem that was present when you bought the laptop 5.5 years ago (how on earth do you know?). Also, you would need to take the retailer (if an Apple store, Apple Retail) to court, not Apple themselves.

It will cost you a fortune, and I don't imaging you'll get anywhere. One £350 repair bill in 6 years isn't that unreasonable.

So you'd have to risk:

- Apple's legal fees.
- Your own legal fees.
- Court costs.
- Cost of an independent expert inspection/report (you'll be looking at well over £3-400 for a report from a company willing to go to court).
- A crap load of your time.

Worth risking well £2k for a £350 bill?

Plus. If it is the NVidia issue, NVidia stated that any component that failed after 4 years wouldn't be caused by that fault, since it would manifest itself by that time.

Or you could just accept that electronics fail, and **** happens, and move on.

Also - they didn't receive $X million. NVidia pay for repairs of any failed components. Remember it's not Apple's fault.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 02:03 PM   #16
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It's already been proved that it was due to the GPU when I took it into the Apple store. They admitted if it was in the time frame, they would repair it, no questions asked. Plus all of the GPUs are affected it seems whatever anyone says.

I have no problem taking the retail store to court. I have done before and they tend to be settled out of court.

I think it is unreasonable.

And OK, the 2M was for reimbursements, sure. That is still money for Apple to get back from Nvidia.

As for time frame. Say I bought it in 2007, kept in it's box for 3 years before using it therefore the issue wouldn't show up as quickly as for someone running games/video processing or other graphic intensive stuff all day everyday. As it happens, mine saw light use, nothing heavy so it took way longer to happen.

No, I don't have a piece of paper saying that. But it of course was there at the time of sale. It's like that on all of them. Even the replacements if you look at the failure rate of those too. It's not like I took the logic board apart, took out the GPU and then reapplied the thermal paste whilst drunk.

I guess we're not going to see eye to eye on this but I appreciate you playing devils advocate.

I suppose I at least know not to buy Macs in the future if it is expected that they loose 100% of their value in under 6 years.

Last edited by Skirimsl; Feb 5, 2013 at 02:18 PM.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 02:07 PM   #17
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It's already been proved that it was due to the GPU when I took it into the Apple store. They admitted if it was in the time frame, they would repair it, no questions asked.

I have no problem taking the retail store to court. I have done before and they tend to be settled out of court.

I think it is unreasonable.
So you have a piece of paper, from Apple, stating that "This issue was caused by a component failure which was present at the point of sale."

If it says "GPU Failure" or even "NVidia Issue" - how do you know it didn't just fail after purchase? Just because they said they'd cover it, they will cover defects that arise after purchase under their quality programs. If it's under law, it's still down to you to prove that the defect was present on your machine when you bought it 5.5 years ago. Quality programs, as with the original warranty, is in addition to your legal rights - they aren't equal to them.

And even then, the most you'd be entitled to is a pro-rata'd refund. With an expected lifespan of 6 years, you're looking at about £140.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 02:10 PM   #18
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I stinks, however if it's out of the period there's not a lot the Apple Store can do, especially if it was bought from another retailer.

Won't cost him £2k for a small claims court (if it ever gets there), just the court fee which is around £50, plus he can represent himself. Doesn't require a fancy lawyer.

Another option if purchased on a credit card is to invoke the consumer credit act and make the card issuer jointly liable.

Often as soon as the paperwork turns up the retailer suddenly become more co-operative!
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 02:13 PM   #19
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I stinks, however if it's out of the period there's not a lot the Apple Store can do, especially if it was bought from another retailer.

Won't cost him £2k for a small claims court (if it ever gets there), just the court fee which is around £50, plus he can represent himself. Doesn't require a fancy lawyer.

Another option if purchased on a credit card is to invoke the consumer credit act and make the card issuer jointly liable.

Often as soon as the paperwork turns up the retailer suddenly become more co-operative!
You think Apple will represent themselves?
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 02:21 PM   #20
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Everyone thinks of companies such as Apple as these big scary, untouchable entities with armies of lawyers. They have to abide by the law just like everyone else regardless of how many lawyers they have.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 02:30 PM   #21
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Everyone thinks of companies such as Apple as these big scary, untouchable entities with armies of lawyers. They have to abide by the law just like everyone else regardless of how many lawyers they have.
Yes, and ask yourself whether a judge will consider 5.5 years as "reasonable". I think they will.

Apple has only ever lost one court case with the NVidia issue - which was in the US, not the UK, and was within their 4 year timescale. He argued that they were replacing with another defective part, and won. That's a whole other kettle of fish than claiming it didn't last a reasonable time (4 years is what NVidia calls reasonable).

Some things are worth fighting, some things are not. If you need to spend more than 10 hours on it, it's probably not worth your time doing it. Also, as a side FYI, Apple chose to send 2 lawyers to that case. So if you did lose, you'd be looking at some quite chunky legal fees.

I could quite happily sit here and tell you to go for it, everything will be amazing and you'll walk out of court with a brand new laptop and £10k in damages. But that aint gonna happen - you need to be realistic. The most the court will award (the retailer's largest responsibility) is 5/72 of the purchase price.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 02:34 PM   #22
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Well, so far, only a couple of hours. I will see how things go before giving up.

I appreciate the risks and I will certainly do my homework before messing with Apple, don't you worry.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 05:58 PM   #23
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You think Apple will represent themselves?
Apple Retail (UK) and Apple Inc are different companies.

Seen a case elsewhere where that was similar. Apple sent three shiny lawyers to a small claims court. Judge sided with the consumer.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 02:18 AM   #24
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Apple Retail (UK) and Apple Inc are different companies.

Seen a case elsewhere where that was similar. Apple sent three shiny lawyers to a small claims court. Judge sided with the consumer.
Yes I know - that's what I said in my post.

And that case was the one I stated above. It wasn't under the SOGA in the UK though. The only case they lost was in the US, in their 4 year period, and the claim was that they were repairing with a faulty component.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 06:41 AM   #25
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I am pretty sure Apple stopped repairing non-unibody macbook pros a long time ago. They just recently stopped the NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT REP program last year for unibodies, as they're now focused on the 15' MBP Mid 2010 video REP.
The 8600M isn't in unibody Macs, that repair was for the non-unibody Macs. Apple still repairs them even though this repair warranty extension has ended.
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