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Old Feb 4, 2013, 10:31 PM   #501
spyguy10709
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Originally Posted by MagnusVonMagnum View Post
Apple has inspired worshippers/feverish cultist types for lack of a better way of putting it (typically called "fanboys") and that means that whatever Apple says is gospel. They don't think for themselves. They just push the Apple agenda as they understand it. That's a radical departure from the old days when Amiga fans liked Amigas because they were cool for media and Mac fans liked Macs because they were GUI when MSDos was just a command line. It's now the Cult of Steve (or maybe Cult of Apple now that he's gone) and they might even be a minority of users, but they're very vocal and that makes it seem like they're everywhere.

I wanted a smaller pad and a larger iPod Touch years ago and you're right, they thumped all over that suggestion. Now that Apple offers EXACTLY THAT, it's the best idea since sliced bread....
Being 15, it's hard to comment on that part of it.

But I was part of the "Cult of Steve". I loved his vision. I didn't accept his decisions though. I hackintoshed a HP notebook because I couldn't afford a MacBook, years ago. I jailbroke because I wanted apps (think 1.1.X people!).

It's sad that he's gone.

But in essence, I think the "Cult of iPod" was a different breed from the "Cult of Steve/Mac" in that the iPod is a consumption device, for the sheep of this generation, but the Mac is for creation - from the days of old. Not everyone had one, but if you did you had the power to create. You can rip my Mac out of my cold, dead hands. Never giving up the Mac, baby.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 10:42 PM   #502
apple-win
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Flag ship

If Apple is a computer company, Mac Pro is the flag ship product.

If Apple is a toy company, iPhone is the flag ship product.

Apple changed it name from "Apple Computer" to "Apple Inc." many years ago.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnusVonMagnum View Post
I dunno. Steve Jobs personally picked Tim Cook to take over Apple. If he's just a bean counter, why did Steve pick him?

....
If Steve Job picked a software head for CEO, hardware head get pissed off.
If he picked a hardware head instead, software head get pissed off.

If Steve Job picked marketing head for CEO, everybody get pissed off.

That's why he picked Tim Cook.

I think that pick the legal department head for CEO would be better, because it aligns with company strategy.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 11:36 PM   #503
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I've read somewhere else that apparently it may have nothing to do with the EU regulations that the interior fans are a safety hazard since the EU DOES NOT BAN UNGUARDED FANS but only puts them into 3 categories, according to the level of pain/injury they may give. So could it be possible that this is Apple's way of returning some form of 'revenge' on the EU, for having been fined by them last year with the Samsung patents fiasco? That because of the way Apple has been treated by the EU, they use this issue as an excuse to withdraw Mac Pro support there for its members?
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 11:54 PM   #504
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Originally Posted by SmileyBlast! View Post
Yikes! It's not easy to run a hardware company is it?
Nope. Not when that hardware company does business in over 50 countries, and is obligated to follow all the little laws and regulations from each of those countries. Even worse when those laws and regulations get changed every few months, and the regulators do not give a reasonable amount of (transitional) "grace period" for the company to adjust to the new rules.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 01:59 AM   #505
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This makes me really a shamed to live en the EU, which Denmark is a part of.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 02:54 AM   #506
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Want something better than a MacPro?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwaW6HR9dw4
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 02:56 AM   #507
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Originally Posted by Solomani View Post
Even worse when those laws and regulations get changed every few months, and the regulators do not give a reasonable amount of (transitional) "grace period" for the company to adjust to the new rules.

In this case, the regulation is from 2.009 and the latest change from December 2.011, ¿almost 18 months is not a reasonable grace period?
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 05:33 AM   #508
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Originally Posted by MagnusVonMagnum View Post
I'd choose the iMac. I don't like the idea of it at all. Shoving a computer into the back of a monitor compromises the entire design integrity of the system and the newest iMac makes this more obvious than ever. You often can't use desktop parts due to lack of space and heat distribution. Upgradeability is fatally compromised both in terms of upgrading existing parts and adding new ones.

The entire idea of the iMac is to get rid of desktop clutter, but to back it up (short of buying a Time Capsule and putting it out of the way somewhere), you have to plug in external junk and clutter up your desk anyway (whereas many computer desks have a nice space in them dedicated for a tower and a good sized tower can house many hard drives, cards, etc. and therefore take up NO DESKTOP SPACE. The iMac has a real problem if the monitor fails as well since you can't just plug in a new one and continue on your way. You have to fix it at some point and that's a PITA.

The biggest problem with the Mac Pro is that it's just a workstation level computer. They could easily expand the line into the consumer level tower arena and offer a sub-$2k machine for things like gaming, etc. with support for SLI and high-end graphics cards at a competitive price to the iMac. But they don't because Steve wanted to push his "neat and thin" concept onto people whether they liked it or not. The problem is that such a design CANNOT function as a reasonable graphics platform where more performance is needed (whether for real-time Pro 3D apps or gaming). Apple has continually ignored this market segment and fan boys have continually spouted that no one games on a Mac (both untrue and a chicken/egg scenario since a lack of gaming hardware discourages gaming development/ports).
Exactly!

As things stand now I get put in the demo for the pro but it is more that I am NOT in the demo for any of their other computers. Sure I love a machine to occasionally compile on, but it is not like my paycheck depends on that.

I currently am on a late 2007 iMac and hate that I would have to perform major surgery/take it to an apple store if something like a battery died. The 2012 iMac is even worse. I would have considered the 2007 form factor with updated specs tolerable .... 'thinner' was on my nogo list rather than a want list.

I want to do things like add am internal 3.5 SSD for the OS (oh, and NOT fusion and/or booting from an external drive TYVM). Put in a full sized nvidia card. Actually have space in here so there can be some real cooling. Be able to pull out bad components when they fail.

BTW, what am I supposed to do with an iMac other than recycle it when I move up to a new machine? In the past I have kept the previous machine as a backup or given it to a family member. I could also plug my old screen into the new machine if I was not buying a monitor.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 07:17 AM   #509
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Originally Posted by Middleman-77 View Post
I've read somewhere else that apparently it may have nothing to do with the EU regulations that the interior fans are a safety hazard since the EU DOES NOT BAN UNGUARDED FANS but only puts them into 3 categories, according to the level of pain/injury they may give. So could it be possible that this is Apple's way of returning some form of 'revenge' on the EU, for having been fined by them last year with the Samsung patents fiasco? That because of the way Apple has been treated by the EU, they use this issue as an excuse to withdraw Mac Pro support there for its members?
I think you are reading entirely too much in to it over a product that likely sells under 500 units a week in the EU.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 07:54 AM   #510
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Apple's decay began the day Jobs (unfortunately) left this world.

In 5 years time, the current CEOs of Apple will have driven this company into the garage it came from !!!

Sad sad sad times for a Mac Lover !!!
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 08:41 AM   #511
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Originally Posted by AidenShaw View Post
Look at http://www.nvidia.com/page/partner_c...d_drivers.html ....

To mix-and-match random "off the shelve" graphics cards with random driver downloads isn't the norm in the workstation market - when you run software packages that cost from about the price of the machine to many times more, you want the software partner to certify the drivers.
You didn't specify what kind of uses you are going to use such graphic cards for and what applications you are talking about until now.

Considering Nvidia seems to only support the 4000 series of high end cards ( Drivers for Mac ) anyway that would cover what is supported in the link you provided.

I was talking primarily consumer based cards that Nvidia provides drivers for that would run in the Mac Pro. People do use such cards for Premiere & FCP X for instance.

Not all graphic cards put in workstations are needed for video editing, 3D effects ect. Some are needed for multiple out put to monitors or other uses, so such high end graphic cards are not always needed in workstations. It all depends on what the Mac Pro is going to be used.

So a lot of updated graphic cards are supported in the Mac Pro.


Quote:
I've noticed in the last couple of years that the Dell and Lenovo workstations and desktops that I buy have a grille

(like )

on the internal side of the fans.

I thought that this was cool, because it eliminated the odd problem where an internal cable would move and touch the fan blades - creating quite a terrible racket.

Now, it seems likely that the other companies added 50¢ grilles to the fans on their $500 systems to meet the EU regulations - but that Apple couldn't afford the margin hit to do the same with their $2500 systems.

We're not talking about re-engineering the system here - it's a trivial, obvious fix.
Since the Mac Pro has very little cables in them, not much to worry about them getting caught in fans.

Nearly all the repairs, maintenance on the computer it should be turned off with it unplugged anyway.

Fan guards are not always used for the protection of people, but also to protect the fan itself from foreign object damage.

Quote:
I agree 100%. Apple is beyond contempt in this regard. There is simply no excuse for their lack of caring to the point where they not only let the machine go out of date, refuse to do a 50 cent safety fix
A fifty cents fix does not fix stupid when the computer should be turned off in the first place.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 09:58 AM   #512
milo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lennholm View Post
Wrong, the flagship product is the company's most successful product.
Show me a dictionary that defines it as "most successful" - specifically you're going by "best selling".

Quote:
top-of-the-line, topline, premium, prime, leading, champion, best, top
An argument can be made either way, quit insisting people are wrong with nothing to back it up.


Quote:
Originally Posted by adversus View Post
I'm going to go out on a limb and say all you people freaking out over not being able to buy a shiny new Mac Pro every year...
Straw man argument. It hasn't really been updated since 2009 and it is way behind the times in terms of technology. There's really no excuse for not keeping the basics up to date. There are people who DO need to upgrade their workstations now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudical View Post
If you were Apple, and you had to remove one of the following products from your lineup, which would you choose?
But they don't have to remove one. And you ignore the halo effect - the guy who uses a mac pro at work probably has macs at home, including for family members, and probably recommends macs for other people and helps them out with tech support. Killing the MP means he switches to a windows box, and at that point, why stick with mac for the other devices as well. Same goes for using iOS versus android, once the mac goes that's less of a reason to use iOS.

There's something to be said for offering a complete product line, there's more to the equation than just selling a lot of every model.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Solomani View Post
Even worse when those laws and regulations get changed every few months, and the regulators do not give a reasonable amount of (transitional) "grace period" for the company to adjust to the new rules.
Yeah, that would suck if that were the case. But with this one, it was announced in December 2009, a grace period of over three years. This time around Apple dropped the ball, can't blame regulators.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 11:14 AM   #513
linuxcooldude
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Same goes for using iOS versus android, once the mac goes that's less of a reason to use iOS.
Millions of people use iOS and continue to use windows computers. It would be like saying Android users primarily use Linux computers, its not so.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 12:17 PM   #514
milo
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But for a mac user there are advantages to iOS - switching to windows, those are lost so there's less incentive to stick with iOS. You really think a mac user is no more likely to choose iOS than a windows user?
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 02:00 PM   #515
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But for a mac user there are advantages to iOS - switching to windows, those are lost so there's less incentive to stick with iOS. You really think a mac user is no more likely to choose iOS than a windows user?
Your making a lot of assumptions here. A guy who uses a Mac Pro at work and at home could own his own business. Then perhaps it might make sense.

My brother works for a well known tech company. His work provides him with a MacBook Pro laptop. His personal cell phone is a Samsung Galaxy Note 2. He prefers Android over the iPhone.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 03:13 PM   #516
toke lahti
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But for a mac user there are advantages to iOS - switching to windows, those are lost so there's less incentive to stick with iOS. You really think a mac user is no more likely to choose iOS than a windows user?
Well, I'm a Snow Leopard user and Apple doesn't offer iCloud to my macs. Apple does offer iCloud to Windows Vista users, so who's winning here?
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 03:21 PM   #517
milo
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We're all making a lot of assumptions. Obviously any use case is possible, it just seems that generally people who use one machine at work may be more likely to want to use the same at home. Certainly, if someone has been using a MP and has been happy with it, if Apple discontinues the MP it's certainly not going to leave them feeling good toward Apple when it comes time to buy another machine (or mobile device) or make a recommendation for anyone else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by toke lahti View Post
Well, I'm a Snow Leopard user and Apple doesn't offer iCloud to my macs. Apple does offer iCloud to Windows Vista users, so who's winning here?
Yet another example of Apple making a decision that saves them a little money but may cost them goodwill and potential sales down the road.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 06:01 PM   #518
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It's a common feature in servers, not so much in workstations.
Guess I'm lucky then
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 07:04 PM   #519
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Well, I'm a Snow Leopard user and Apple doesn't offer iCloud to my macs. Apple does offer iCloud to Windows Vista users, so who's winning here?
That's because Windows has stable, opaque APIs that don't disappear without warning.

There is a hack to get around Apple's artificial installer block to run Icloud on XP ( http://omarjallouli.com/windows/down...oud-windows-xp ).

Of course:
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 07:18 PM   #520
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How about a NEW MacPro from Apple?

Perhaps the loss of the European market will compel Apple to introduce an updated MacPro that we've been waiting for.... I HOPE !
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 05:06 AM   #521
KaraH
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Originally Posted by linuxcooldude View Post
My brother works for a well known tech company. His work provides him with a MacBook Pro laptop. His personal cell phone is a Samsung Galaxy Note 2. He prefers Android over the iPhone.
I own stock in Apple and have been using their stuff since HS. My phone is still an android.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 11:45 AM   #522
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Perhaps the loss of the European market will compel Apple to introduce an updated MacPro that we've been waiting for.... I HOPE !
Just to clarify... they are not prevented from selling Mac Pros in Europe, just importing them. Apple has already stated that it plans to bring out "something" in 2013. For all we know they have already imported enough Mac Pros into Europe meet the expected demand until until the new "something" is released. There may be no actual changes to Mac Pro sales in Europe until the new "something".

I would love to have an insider report on what an Apple warehouse > Mac Pro section looks like right now. That will either support or entirely squash my hypothesis about inventory.

Apple has also committed to supporting the existing Mac Pro installations with replacement parts in the future. It seems that they are working hard to not entirely kill their Mac Pro market in Europe.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 10:53 PM   #523
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Originally Posted by Luis Ortega View Post
Why would anyone want to buy three-year-old obsolete hardware?
Now there have been some rumblings that Apple will release a new Mac Pro as early as this Spring. So it will not be long before people will be able to buy an entirely new and redesigned Mac Pro.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 11:25 PM   #524
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Now there have been some rumblings that Apple will release a new Mac Pro as early as this Spring. So it will not be long before people will be able to buy an entirely new and redesigned Mac Pro.
Don´t forget to put extra 2-3 months for delivery time. Apple´s specialty these days.

So I wouldn´t expect getting a new Mac Pro until autumn.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 12:10 PM   #525
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Originally Posted by MagnusVonMagnum View Post
Apple has inspired worshippers/feverish cultist types for lack of a better way of putting it (typically called "fanboys") and that means that whatever Apple says is gospel. They don't think for themselves. They just push the Apple agenda as they understand it. That's a radical departure from the old days when Amiga fans liked Amigas because they were cool for media and Mac fans liked Macs because they were GUI when MSDos was just a command line. It's now the Cult of Steve (or maybe Cult of Apple now that he's gone) and they might even be a minority of users, but they're very vocal and that makes it seem like they're everywhere.

I wanted a smaller pad and a larger iPod Touch years ago and you're right, they thumped all over that suggestion. Now that Apple offers EXACTLY THAT, it's the best idea since sliced bread....
You are correct unfortunately. I build computers and setup networks for people and it always surprises them that my personal computers are Mac's simply because I'm not an evangelist. Sadly there is the expectation that is you have a silver aluminum computer that you are going to be a sidewalk preacher or it's for image. I think the rational mac users need to start being more vocal, there are good things about all three camps and that needs to be stated.
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