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Old Feb 5, 2013, 12:34 PM   #1
aicul
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Quality : that's part of the product! Dirt behind iMac screen

Product quality !

I'm pretty annoyed. I just received my brand-new iMac 27". Waited weeks for it.

And indeed I was ready to wait because Apple indicated that they were having production issues.

So one would expect that the first batch that are delivered when the production picks-up are good.

Well no.

The iMac has a piece of dirt stuck behind the screen. There is absolutely no way that this mac was quality checked after screen assembly.

For a top of the range machine I would have expected far better, particularly after the wait.

Probably tomorrow, the iMac goes back ... I'll sleep over the request for a refund.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 12:39 PM   #2
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rather than asking for a refund why don't you ask for a swap with a new one? You should be able to keep the current one until the new one will be delivered.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 12:44 PM   #3
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picture ? i'm curious..
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 12:49 PM   #4
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 12:51 PM   #5
HenryDJP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aicul View Post

Probably tomorrow, the iMac goes back ... I'll sleep over the request for a refund.
A refund over a little bit of dirt behind the screen? You could just request a replacement or have them remove the dirt. Oy vey.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 12:51 PM   #6
youeyemind
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This is the Internet. It's all lies until the pictures are there hence the "pics or it didn't happen"
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 12:58 PM   #7
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That's one of the few things I'm worried about now - having ordered it, I've gotten over whether fusion was the right choice, the 675 was the right choice, the i7 was the right choice.

But if there's a chip/image retention/yellowing/dirt etc, I'm going to seriously have to weigh up whether another 3-4 weeks wait for a replacement is worth it.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 01:11 PM   #8
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That's one of the few things I'm worried about now - having ordered it, I've gotten over whether fusion was the right choice, the 675 was the right choice, the i7 was the right choice.

But if there's a chip/image retention/yellowing/dirt etc, I'm going to seriously have to weigh up whether another 3-4 weeks wait for a replacement is worth it.
I got the same spec as you - I'm overwhelmed with the display. No problems at all. That i7 is seriously seriously fast. The 675 is too much for the job I need. And is very good too.
No chips/obvious retention yellowing/ backlight.

Don't get disheartened by people posting negative reports. They are much more likely to post problems than if they were happy.

I'm ecstatic with mine. Waited 4 weeks and its worth every penny and every day
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 01:54 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by HenryDJP View Post
A refund over a little bit of dirt behind the screen? You could just request a replacement or have them remove the dirt. Oy vey.
Replacement yes, remove dirt, no. The screen is a sealed assembly, if something is trapped between the glass and screen the entire assembly will likely wind up getting binned.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 02:53 PM   #10
aicul
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Hi all

I did not expect such a number of responses.

I will get a picture soon, also because that is what I will send back to Apple. So there are no qualms putting that here - even though it feels very much not my style. Anyway, rest assured, it did happen ! (stay posted for pic)

And indeed, a repair of a sealed screen-assembly is not an option.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oililymad View Post
Don't get disheartened by people posting negative reports. They are much more likely to post problems than if they were happy.
Indeed, that is a universal truth.

Generally, I am willing accept some defects even if Apple has traditionally been always top-notch. But here, a major bottle-neck to production has been getting the screen assemble right.

So for this to happen, they frankly did not switch it on! That is disheartening.

My heart just sank when I realized the grit was not something sticking to the screen, but behind the glass.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 03:02 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by youeyemind View Post
This is the Internet. It's all lies until the pictures are there hence the "pics or it didn't happen"
Considering the existence of Photoshop, I don't see why pictures have any more credibility than text, which is to say, not much.

Trust no one!

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by aicul View Post
Hi all

I did not expect such a number of responses.

I will get a picture soon, also because that is what I will send back to Apple. So there are no qualms putting that here - even though it feels very much not my style. Anyway, rest assured, it did happen ! (stay posted for pic)

And indeed, a repair of a sealed screen-assembly is not an option.



Indeed, that is a universal truth.

Generally, I am willing accept some defects even if Apple has traditionally been always top-notch. But here, a major bottle-neck to production has been getting the screen assemble right.

So for this to happen, they frankly did not switch it on! That is disheartening.

My heart just sank when I realized the grit was not something sticking to the screen, but behind the glass.
Don't bother yourself with pictures to prove something to strangers on the Internet. You've been inconvenienced enough already. That is unfortunate and I don't blame you for feeling at least disappointed.

I would encourage you to get them to give you a new one though. They owe you that. I would not accept a repair on a brand new delivery. Insist on a completely new computer. They can refurb yours and take the hit. That's what they get for screwing up on quality control. When you spend this kind of money you have every right to demand the best and should accept nothing less.

I'm sure Apple will come through for you. They may not be perfect but they are good about taking care of customer issues.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 03:07 PM   #12
pete78
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Demand a new machine, this is unacceptable. Minor dent, a little scratch, fine. HD failure (mine) or dirt behind screen (yours) upon arrival is unacceptable. If anything, I would assume you have certain rights under local lemon/consumer laws.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 04:29 PM   #13
OlMighty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oililymad View Post
I got the same spec as you - I'm overwhelmed with the display. No problems at all. That i7 is seriously seriously fast. The 675 is too much for the job I need. And is very good too.
No chips/obvious retention yellowing/ backlight.

Don't get disheartened by people posting negative reports. They are much more likely to post problems than if they were happy.

I'm ecstatic with mine. Waited 4 weeks and its worth every penny and every day
I think that now I know it's shipped, there's only one thing that could go wrong, even if it is unlikely. And the thought of having to wait again doesn't really appeal.

Not bothered about scratches, or nicks to the metal. Stuck pixels would annoy me. It'd have to be something fairly significant for me to want to return it at this stage.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 04:30 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aicul View Post
Generally, I am willing accept some defects even if Apple has traditionally been always top-notch. But here, a major bottle-neck to production has been getting the screen assemble right.

So for this to happen, they frankly did not switch it on! That is disheartening.

My heart just sank when I realized the grit was not something sticking to the screen, but behind the glass.
Umm, sorry to ask such a silly question but... are you suggesting that Apple should inspect EVERY device they manufacture for screen issues? That every device should be switched on and visually inspected before being shipped out? You know that would involve something like 60 million+ devices a quarter right?

I have sympathy with you here, my own luck with Apple has been pushing the laws of probability and it sucks when you wait for a shiny new device only to find an issue as soon as you power it on. But it's going to happen, of course it is, no product ever ships at 100% reliability out of the box. If you're unlucky and get a faulty unit then you hope that the company has a good process in place for dealing with it. From long experience I'd say Apple remains the best company I've ever found for putting any faults right (with the notable exception of stock bought on-line being treated as a separate sales channel from the retail stores preventing straight swap outs) and that really is the best a reasonable customer could hope for IMO.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 04:52 PM   #15
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A lot of companies test each unit. Power supplies, for instance, are subjected to a hi-pot test before being sent out. This involves running current through the power supply, motor, etc. and measuring how well the insulation holds up. A non-functioning motor or power supply would be caught and discarded at this point. What's more troubling is that the presence of dirt in the LCD panel indicates dirty conditions at the LCD manufacturer, which isn't a good thing at all.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 06:51 PM   #16
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A lot of companies test each unit. Power supplies, for instance, are subjected to a hi-pot test before being sent out. This involves running current through the power supply, motor, etc. and measuring how well the insulation holds up. A non-functioning motor or power supply would be caught and discarded at this point. What's more troubling is that the presence of dirt in the LCD panel indicates dirty conditions at the LCD manufacturer, which isn't a good thing at all.
You're right about what the dirt behind the screen is indicative of but you have to understand that what you explained about the factory testing is generally done on models of the product that will be sent out to manufacturing. There's no way any company that mass produces like Apple will be able to test each product before shipping. That's not realistic nor should that be expected. It's not that the parts themselves don't go through special tests before being assembled, but it's generally the assembly that may suffer some issues. That's why it's called Manufacturing Defect.
After the assembly you can't expect Apple or any company for that matter to test millions of computers being shipped out. That would incur them booting them up and doing full inspections. That would take several weeks for each customer to receive their products on the norm, not to mention the costs would be considerably higher for the customer.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 01:35 AM   #17
aicul
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Originally Posted by smiddlehurst View Post
Umm, sorry to ask such a silly question but... are you suggesting that Apple should inspect EVERY device they manufacture for screen issues? That every device should be switched on and visually inspected before being shipped out? You know that would involve something like 60 million+ devices a quarter right?
Well, I would think this :

They admit production issues with this screen, so initially "yes" I would expect each screen switched on at one point.

And this only requires the screen be switched on in front of a camera that checks for defects, dead pixels, etc.

I do not think that is rocket science...


Indeed once production is stable (remember it is not yet), they could probably get away with a sampling. Even though I think that at Apple prices they could do the check anyway.

The issue here is that one of the fundamental traits of this machine is the screen, so get the screen right !
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 01:45 AM   #18
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That would incur them booting them up and doing full inspections.
Just to be clear, when a Mac is switched on there is a white screen. In my case that is sufficient to see the dirt. A full inspection would not have been required. (Note: agree that a switch-on is a boot)

Again, the issue here is not how complex the production process is. Customers pay extra because Apple "supposedly" masters this - and other things - for us. We pay more and they have the technology.

So "yes", I feel as if Apple failed me on this "common understanding of quality expectations".

And indeed, as in other threads, these things can happen, and it comes down to after-sales service.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 02:34 AM   #19
HenryDJP
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Just to be clear, when a Mac is switched on there is a white screen. In my case that is sufficient to see the dirt. A full inspection would not have been required. (Note: agree that a switch-on is a boot)

Again, the issue here is not how complex the production process is. Customers pay extra because Apple "supposedly" masters this - and other things - for us. We pay more and they have the technology.

So "yes", I feel as if Apple failed me on this "common understanding of quality expectations".

And indeed, as in other threads, these things can happen, and it comes down to after-sales service.
Upon booting up, the company is not going to know what to look for (such as dirt behind the glass, especially since that issue isn't common) so that would require them to do a full boot. There are so many other things they would have to check such as fan noise, hard drive noise, hard drive failure, screen uniformity issues, logic board issues including all the other things people complain about here. Do you understand my point now?

Also, in your mind you are paying a lot of money for your Macintosh but in reality you're not paying the kind of money that it would cost the customer if companies had to hand test each product before being shipped to the customer, especially when said products are being mass produced. You're saying Apple failed you? Okay, however Sony charges equally if not more than Apple for a common Windows machine, yet their stuff is mass produced and not exclusively tested. With Sony and Apple, you're paying for the build quality and certain parts like the screens tend to be better than the competition. Dust behind the screen CAN happen. I know you're frustrated but the company hasn't failed you. Be fair, you're leaving zero room for mistakes and for consumer products that's just expecting too much. That's why companies offer warranties and Apple will replace yours over the counter anyway.

Specialized handmade products would go through such dedicated testing as they are generally made in very small quantities and command very high prices. For example, you would be paying 3 times the amount that you currently pay for a Mac if Apple went through such dedicated testing. Seems like that you have a very short history of being a Mac user. I've been on the Mac exclusively since 1998. I know what to expect to pay for Apple products and believe me, it's come down in price over the years. A Mac laptop with a 12" screen used to start upwards at $5000.

Last edited by HenryDJP; Feb 6, 2013 at 02:42 AM.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 05:19 AM   #20
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Upon booting up, the company is not going to know what to look for (such as dirt behind the glass, especially since that issue isn't common) so that would require them to do a full boot. There are so many other things they would have to check such as fan noise, hard drive noise, hard drive failure, screen uniformity issues, logic board issues including all the other things people complain about here. Do you understand my point now?

Also, in your mind you are paying a lot of money for your Macintosh but in reality you're not paying the kind of money that it would cost the customer if companies had to hand test each product before being shipped to the customer, especially when said products are being mass produced. You're saying Apple failed you? Okay, however Sony charges equally if not more than Apple for a common Windows machine, yet their stuff is mass produced and not exclusively tested. With Sony and Apple, you're paying for the build quality and certain parts like the screens tend to be better than the competition. Dust behind the screen CAN happen. I know you're frustrated but the company hasn't failed you. Be fair, you're leaving zero room for mistakes and for consumer products that's just expecting too much. That's why companies offer warranties and Apple will replace yours over the counter anyway.

Specialized handmade products would go through such dedicated testing as they are generally made in very small quantities and command very high prices. For example, you would be paying 3 times the amount that you currently pay for a Mac if Apple went through such dedicated testing. Seems like that you have a very short history of being a Mac user. I've been on the Mac exclusively since 1998. I know what to expect to pay for Apple products and believe me, it's come down in price over the years. A Mac laptop with a 12" screen used to start upwards at $5000.
HenryDJP, please do not assume.

I have used macs since 1986. Old enough ? Never owned a PC.

Your "rambling about what can and cannot be done" is fully understood. What you fail to note is :

- I am leaving space to apple, as I am only saying that "I am not happy". I hope I am entitled to say that ?

- I understand the cost issue, but on a new product that has been slowed down by a specific "difficulty" it makes sense to check that the difficulty is truly overcome. Is this rocket science ?

- Others sell even more costly products, good for them! That does not change the fact that "I am not happy" on this Apple product (the subject of the thread). I also refer you to my comment "common understanding of quality expectations"

----------

Update on my discussion with Apple Store:

I explained the issue briefly, then a no-nonsense discussion followed that can be summarized as follows :

- the iMac will be replaced, they are sorry

- the return of the iMac is already all setup

- the replacement was initially (ouch !!) announced for mid-March... but was reduced (by email) to less than a week without me having to ask


I'm not going to extrapolate any science from the above. Just that the above is the service I expect from Apple, and this is the first time I had to ask for it. Nice to see that reality meets expectations.

I have my fingers crossed for the replacement iMac...
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 06:31 AM   #21
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Considering the existence of Photoshop, I don't see why pictures have any more credibility than text, which is to say, not much.

Trust no one![COLOR="#808080"]

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Only one thing for it then... The custard test.

Poor custard over the faulty unit then take a photo... its the only way to prove you aren't lying to us all.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 08:51 AM   #22
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I would imagine anything as complex as an all-in-one computer would - at the very least - need to pass the most simple 'power on' test.

Remember these units are selling in great numbers. QA is (mostly) run by humans, and there will always be a small percentage that simply get through the net.

Who knows what pressures the manufacturing plant are coming under? A current 4-6 wait (in the UK) suggests that there's some part of the process that's causing an issue.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 09:00 AM   #23
crows
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my iMac also had a large particle under the glass I left it at the store for repair because they said the replacement would take 3-4 weeks and replacing the screen would take 4-5 days, already been 7 days but they called me to pick it up tomorrow, it also had the yellow tint issue so we will see if the new screen is a good one.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 09:57 AM   #24
HenryDJP
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HenryDJP, please do not assume.

I have used macs since 1986. Old enough ? Never owned a PC.

Your "rambling about what can and cannot be done" is fully understood. What you fail to note is :

- I am leaving space to apple, as I am only saying that "I am not happy". I hope I am entitled to say that ?

- I understand the cost issue, but on a new product that has been slowed down by a specific "difficulty" it makes sense to check that the difficulty is truly overcome. Is this rocket science ?

- Others sell even more costly products, good for them! That does not change the fact that "I am not happy" on this Apple product (the subject of the thread). I also refer you to my comment "common understanding of quality expectations"

----------

Update on my discussion with Apple Store:

I explained the issue briefly, then a no-nonsense discussion followed that can be summarized as follows :

- the iMac will be replaced, they are sorry

- the return of the iMac is already all setup

- the replacement was initially (ouch !!) announced for mid-March... but was reduced (by email) to less than a week without me having to ask


I'm not going to extrapolate any science from the above. Just that the above is the service I expect from Apple, and this is the first time I had to ask for it. Nice to see that reality meets expectations.

I have my fingers crossed for the replacement iMac...
The tone of your post seemed a little on the abrupt side towards me. All of that defensiveness really was unnecessary because my original post said to you to get a replacement from Apple, plain and simple, and that's what you are getting now . It just didn't make sense to me that you would even mention about getting a refund because your first Mac had dust under the glass. In my opinion that was a little extreme. Talk about rambling, you made a mountain out of a molehill.

This is my last post in your thread so a reply will not be necessary. People respond to your thread to help you see things a bit more clearly. I'm sorry if you were only expecting posts that would agree with your way of thinking. You're fighting people that are trying to help you, that's counterproductive and you already anticipating a negative experience upon getting the new replacement. Try to think positive, you most likely will get a perfectly working iMac. It's not commonplace that people get defective Macs. When you're on a forum, less than 50 people will post negatives, the other thousands of customers that don't post are happy. Good luck.

Last edited by HenryDJP; Feb 6, 2013 at 10:02 AM.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 10:20 AM   #25
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Show us the picture already!
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