"Video games are a bigger problem than guns"

[webbuzz]

Originally Posted by Moyank24

Have you watched any anime porn?

Talk about odd....

At least that what I've heard from the degenerates that have watched it.

If you think the anime porn is odd, you should see some of the game shows.

[Eraserhead]

I'm was also thinking about their internet cafes which are generally very dark - because obviously masturbating in your own home is weird .

[Renzatic]

Originally Posted by WestonHarvey1

Wait... beer has a negative stigma in the US?!

That's what I'm wondering. The only time you ever see negative connotations associated with beer in the US is when it's used in conjunction with driving a car.

Otherwise, beer is as well loved here as it is in the rest of the world.

[eric/]

Originally Posted by Moyank24

By whose metric?

I do agree, though, that Americans respond to problems differently than the rest of the world. This is a foundation for an argument as to why we should limit the amount of firearms available to us, though. And I don't think that's the point you were trying to make.

You don't need guns to loot. Bricks work just fine.

[Moyank24]

Originally Posted by eric/

You don't need guns to loot. Bricks work just fine.

I wasn't talking about looting. I was talking about problem solving, and the argument you were making regarding how Americans handle it differently than the rest of the world. Have a problem with your boss? Shoot him? Getting bullied at school? Shoot them. Don't want a divorce? Shoot your spouse. It goes on and on and on....

[eric/]

Originally Posted by Moyank24

I wasn't talking about looting. I was talking about problem solving, and the argument you were making regarding how Americans handle it differently than the rest of the world. Have a problem with your boss? Shoot him? Getting bullied at school? Shoot them. Don't want a divorce? Shoot your spouse. It goes on and on and on....

But why do we resort to violence in the first place? It's not like people in other countries don't have guns.

For me, the problem lies there. Not with the tool.

[Renzatic]

Originally Posted by Moyank24

Have a problem with your boss? Shoot him? Getting bullied at school? Shoot them. Don't want a divorce? Shoot your spouse. It goes on and on and on....

Meanwhile, some guy in the UK with a crappy boss and crabby wife is looking on at us with envy in his heart.

[Moyank24]

Originally Posted by eric/

But why do we resort to violence in the first place? It's not like people in other countries don't have guns.

For me, the problem lies there. Not with the tool.

The problem is a combination of both. Neither should be ignored.

[Don't panic]

Originally Posted by eric/

But why do we resort to violence in the first place? It's not like people in other countries don't have guns.

For me, the problem lies there. Not with the tool.

i agree that we have an intrinsically more violent society, or maybe just more accepting of violence (including extreme violence such as use of firearms) as a problem-solving tool.
the love of gun is an aspect of this violence-priming, and the easy access to guns compounds the issue because it allows to more easily and more devastatingly act upon the violent instincts.


ergo, it is essential try to address the issue at the root and you will get people less violent and less inclined to 'need' guns. meanwhile, as an interim step, get rid of as many guns as possible to minimize.
unfortunately some people will not be able to play with their favorite toys. it seems like an acceptable compromise in exchange for less people murdered

[eric/]

Originally Posted by Don't panic

i agree that we have an intrinsically more violent society, or maybe just more accepting of violence (including extreme violence such as use of firearms) as a problem-solving tool.
the love of gun is an aspect of this violence-priming, and the easy access to guns compounds the issue because it allows to more easily and more devastatingly act upon the violent instincts.


ergo, it is essential try to address the issue at the root and you will get people less violent and less inclined to 'need' guns. meanwhile, as an interim step, get rid of as many guns as possible to minimize.
unfortunately some people will not be able to play with their favorite toys. it seems like an acceptable compromise in exchange for less people murdered

I don't think it's acceptable at all. Might as well ban alcohol. Less people will die from alcohol related deaths. SO what if a few people can't drink? Too bad.

[LethalWolfe]

Violent crime and murder rates in the U.S. have been steadily dropping since they spiked in the late 80's/early 90's (which video games were popular then?) so where is this wave of violence that video games have supposedly spawned? We've been hearing this same recycled drivel ever since politicians discovered what DOOM was. Of course there is the always popular 'heavy metal made them do it' refrain that Juda Preist, Ozzy and Marilyn Manson had to endure and lets not forget the 'D&D made them do it' craze in the 80's. I'm sure if we try hard enough we can create pop culture reasons for the increase during the 60's and 70's. I say we blame long haired hippies and disco respectively.

PDF Warning from the U.S. Department of Justice.

As for the studies showing that violent people tend to enjoy violent past times...well thanks for that. Next thing you know studies will prove that alcoholics tend to drink more and horny people have more sex.

Are we really a more violent society or are we a more connected and informed society that has a greater awareness of what's going on around us than ever before?

[citizenzen]

Originally Posted by LethalWolfe

... where is this wave of violence that video games have supposedly spawned?

Excerpted from The effects of violent video games. Do they affect our behavior? ...

Why Do People Deny the Harmful Effects of Violent Video Games?
Although the scientific evidence clearly shows that violent video games have harmful effects, many people still deny these effects, especially violent game players. There are at least four reasons why.

First, people may think: "I play violent video games and I've never killed anyone." This fallacious reasoning is a good example of how the "availability heuristic" coupled with the "base rate problem" (Kahneman & Tversky, 1973) distort reasoning. People have great difficulty judging influences on events when the base rate probability of the event is very low. It is not surprising that people who play violent video games have not killed anyone because very few people kill anyone. For example, fewer than 6 people per 100,000 are murdered each year in the United States (U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation, 2010). It is very difficult to predict rare events, such as murder, using exposure to violent video games or any other factor. However, murder is the most salient violent event to most people; so when they don't have "available" in memory cases of people playing violent games and then murdering, they ignore the base rate of murder and conclude that violent games have no effect on aggression.

Second, researchers have also found that people believe the media have a much stronger effect on others than on themselves. This effect is very robust and is called the third person effect (e.g., Davison, 1983). The consequence of this psychological effect is that people may often agree that media violence has a bad effect on some people, but not on themselves. This thinking then leads to a denial of the overall importance of the effects from a public health standpoint.

Third, the entertainment industry frequently claims that violent media do not increase aggression (Anderson & Bushman 2002b). Even though the public may recognize that making such claims is in the economic self-interest of the entertainment industry, the repetition of the claims of no effects still seems to have an effect. Since the 1972 Surgeon General warning, the scientific evidence has grown even stronger (see Figure 1). But an analysis of over 600 news reports shows that over time, news stories are more likely to deny the harmful effect of media violence (see Figure 1). Most Americans aren't even aware that the U.S. Surgeon General issued a warning about TV violence. Perhaps this is because most Americans get their information from the mass media. The entertainment industry is probably reluctant to admit that they are marketing a harmful product, much like the tobacco industry was reluctant to admit that they were marketing a harmful product.

Fourth, people do not understand psychological processes as well as they understand biological processes. If you see a violent video game player assault another person, it is difficult to know the direct cause of the assault. Was it playing violent video games for hours on end, or was it something else? The psychological process by which playing violent video games produces this result is not as intuitive to most people as are biological processes. People are probably more accepting of the idea that smoking causes lung cancer, for example, because it is much easier to grasp the idea that smoke going into the lungs, damages cells, and starts tumor growth.

These processes combine to create an atmosphere in which non-expert journalists, and even some social scientists, write articles and books arguing that violent video games are not harmful. However, the vast majority of social scientists working in the area believe that violent video games can be harmful (e.g., Pollard Sacks, Bushman, & Anderson, 2011).

http://www.ithp.org/articles/violentvideogames.html

[LethalWolfe]

Originally Posted by citizenzen

Excerpted from The effects of violent video games. Do they affect our behavior? ...

From your link

"If you see a violent video game player assault another person, it is difficult to know the direct cause of the assault. Was it playing violent video games for hours on end, or was it something else?"

Like I said before, it's not just murder but violent crime in general. Assault, rape, domestic violence... all trending downwards. Is media an influencing factor? Sure, so are parents and peers. Is media responsible for turning an otherwise nonviolent person into a violent person (and I mean beyond the temporary rise of aggression that may accompany playing a video game)? I've yet to see a legit study showing anything beyond a correlation.

It's been decades since the Surgeon General issued a warning about media violence yet here we are with violence rates, using crimes as the metric, that are lower than when the Surgeon General made that warning.

In martial arts classes you learn hands on how to hurt other people (and during sparing and competitions that can be a rewarded goal) yet I don't see out rage over the rise of gyms teaching MMA. Is that because even though they are learning violence students are taught to temper themselves and not react violently to situations? A variety of stimuli affect our behavior but how do video games compare to other stimuli? For example, are violent video games more 'powerful' than a parent's teaching of fantasy vs reality and right vs wrong? How does it compare to athletics? I wonder how the mentality of someone playing in a football game compares the the mentality of someone playing a violent video game.

Closing line from your link,

However, the vast majority of social scientists working in the area believe that violent video games can be harmful.

Big difference between "can be harmful" and "is harmful" and, unlike many posters here, the report talks in terms aggression and not violence which I think is a distinction worth noting. I do not think videos are harmful nor do I think they are harmless as it all depends, like many things, on the overall environment the child is in and the genetic predisposition the child has.

[PracticalMac]

Originally Posted by Eraserhead

The Japanese have a very odd attitude to sex - probably more so than the Americans.

I think Americans are equally odd, but in 180* opposite direction.

Originally Posted by Moyank24

Have you watched any anime porn?

Talk about odd....

At least that what I've heard from the degenerates that have watched it.

Hear about the LIVE action stuff?

Originally Posted by rdowns

How ****ing depraved does one need to be to watch cartoon porn? And I'm 100% pro-porn.

Perhaps you are not pro enough

Originally Posted by WestonHarvey1

Wait... beer has a negative stigma in the US?!

In some countries, beer (and wine), is considered emergency foods.

[Technarchy]

Every person is accountable for their own actions. Stop trying to find scapegoats and justifications in entertainment or inanimate objects. One of the biggest flaws in Western culture is the constant need for a villain for the sake of political theater. Some people are just jacked up and can't cope and should isolated from everyone else.

[skottichan]

Originally Posted by Moyank24

Have you watched any anime porn?

Talk about odd....

At least that what I've heard from the degenerates that have watched it.

I'm proud to be a degenerate.




Seriously though, if guns effected people like the esteemed Senator claims, I'd be run around looking for a princess... wait... yeah, nevermind, I'm going back to shooting necromorphs.

[webbuzz]

Originally Posted by skottichan

i'm proud to be a degenerate.

image

:d

[citizenzen]

Originally Posted by Technarchy

Every person is accountable for their own actions. Stop trying to find scapegoats and justifications in entertainment or inanimate objects.

This isn't about finding scapegoats.

If I hit below your knee with a hammer and it makes your leg kick, I'm not looking for a scapegoat to explain that reaction.

If human beings tested under scientific conditions consistently display more aggressive behavior after playing violent videos games that is also not looking for a scapegoat.

It is observing a reflex.

[webbuzz]

Originally Posted by PracticalMac

In Japan, beer does not have the negative stigma as in US, and does provide calories and fluids.

Where have you heard this?

[Technarchy]

Originally Posted by citizenzen

This isn't about finding scapegoats.

If I hit below your knee with a hammer and it makes your leg kick, I'm not looking for a scapegoat to explain that reaction.

If human beings tested under scientific conditions consistently display more aggressive behavior after playing violent videos games that is also not looking for a scapegoat.

It is observing a reflex.

If you approached me with a hammer I would shoot you. Not quite a reflex, I just don't like people trying to hit me with hammers, and don't really care if you played Sonic the hedgehog or Casltevania for a few hours first.

[citizenzen]

Originally Posted by Technarchy

If you approached me with a hammer I would shoot you. Not quite a reflex, I just don't like people trying to hit me with hammers, and don't really care if you played Sonic the hedgehog or Casltevania for a few hours first.

Wow. Talk about missing the point completely.

Thanks for that scintillating addition to the discussion.

[Renzatic]

Originally Posted by citizenzen

If human beings tested under scientific conditions consistently display more aggressive behavior after playing violent videos games that is also not looking for a scapegoat.

Right, but to get to the root of the issue, has there ever been a study that shows playing violent videogames directly correlates to violent behavior?

From what I've seen, playing violent games raises your adrenaline levels in much the same way as playing sports does. You get the rush of victory and a thrill from the challenge and competition, but that doesn't directly change over to "I just killed a bunch of pixels in a simulacrum, and am therefore more open to the idea of killing an actual human being in person".

Everything I've read shows that it does not. At least not in well balanced, normal individuals. In already unbalanced individuals? Not so much. But you can't blame videogames for influencing someone already considerably off kilter to do something overly extreme.

If you were, you might as well go the extra distance and hold Paul McCartney accountable for the death of Sharon Tate.

[citizenzen]

Originally Posted by Renzatic

From what I've seen, playing violent games raises your adrenaline levels in much the same way as playing sports does.

Please source that.

I haven't yet seen the connection to playing sports.

But I would be interested in reading that.

Thank you.

[skottichan]

Originally Posted by citizenzen

Please source that.

I haven't yet seen the connection to playing sports.

But I would be interested in reading that.

Thank you.

Most studies I've seen that it can raise "aggression levels" but not actual violence. I'll see if I can find the Tufts University study, mostly because it was a large study over a longer period of time. IIRC the final "estimation" was that the majority of people were ineffective in the long term.

[citizenzen]

Originally Posted by skottichan

Most studies I've seen that it can raise "aggression levels" but not actual violence. I'll see if I can find the Tufts University study, mostly because it was a large study over a longer period of time. IIRC the final "estimation" was that the majority of people were ineffective in the long term.

Not surprising.

I'll link you back to the post where I quote an article explaining why that is ...

http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...9&postcount=87