The state of Mac gaming

[rampancy]

Originally Posted by MacGamerHQ

I think you are focusing too much on the hackintosh part of the article (in the second WAY more in depth article, hackintosh is barely mentioned).

Ah, okay then - I've looked around for a "Part 2" of your article, but I haven't seen it. I guess the concern I have is that you did speak very highly of building a Hackintosh, but you didn't take a critical look at the potential problems that come with a Hackintosh.

The other thing is that for an article that is intended to take on a pretty wide topic such as Mac gaming as a whole, you really focus on a very narrow segment of it - where's the discussion of the indie/shareware scene? The effect of Steam? The App Store? GOG announcing Mac support (now with the use of WINE), and Origin and Desura coming to the Mac? How about how issues in the greater industry like DRM and DLC and how those have affected Mac gaming? Mac gaming is more than just coverage of the latest and greatest AAA releases and Hackintoshes...if this article is part of a continuing series, like what was posted to Polygon a few months ago, then you need to be explicit about it (and my apologies if I missed it).

Originally Posted by Irishman

Well, Wine and Crossover games are always going to be a limited solutionFor example - one game over at GoG (Dungeon Keeper) is a port of the 640x480 non-3D accelerated DOS version of the game from the late 90s. Great game. Not a great port. There are better ports available.

I'm not sure how it would have been better for GOG to release the original Windows version of Dungeon Keeper, as it's notorious for being nigh-on impossible to run consistently in modern versions of Windows.

Originally Posted by El Awesome

Yup, true..
Although using a Mac Pro with a PC graphics card is nice as well (but expensive)

Fingers crossed for Tim Cook's promise that there will be "something coming in 2013" for people hungry for Mac Pro updates...

[Huntn]

Originally Posted by rampancy

Ah, okay then - I've looked around for a "Part 2" of your article, but I haven't seen it. I guess the concern I have is that you did speak very highly of building a Hackintosh, but you didn't take a critical look at the potential problems that come with a Hackintosh.

I'd like to save $, I've thought about a Hackintosh, but the last time I looked into it, it was not straight forward and there were upgrade issues as I recall.

[El Awesome]

Originally Posted by Huntn

I'd like to save $, I've thought about a Hackintosh, but the last time I looked into it, it was not straight forward and there were upgrade issues as I recall.

Well, I'm running a hack now, and there aren't any issues at all.
Just choose good hardware. Mine works perfectly fine!
I had a pair of faulty RAM, but that can happen to any computer.

Check insanelymac or tonymacx86 for more...

Originally Posted by rampancy

Ah, okay then - I've looked around for a "Part 2" of your article, but I haven't seen it. I guess the concern I have is that you did speak very highly of building a Hackintosh, but you didn't take a critical look at the potential problems that come with a Hackintosh.

Potential problems, such as?
If you have a bit of an idea what you are doing and you chose your hardware wisely, the only potential problem you have is in case something doesen't work you can't simply go to the next Apple Store and they fix it. And because you build everything yourself, it isn't that hard for you to fix something broken yourself.
The potential problems aren't many anymore today.
My biggest problem was to find a nice PC case, I failed completely, so I'm going to build one myself.

[PracticalMac]

Nice work!

Did you mention World War 2 Online somewhere? (did not see).
Deserves an honorable mention for being Mac Native (with PC) for over 10 years and still going, still running on its original engine.

[iMacFarlane]

Originally Posted by rampancy

Fingers crossed for Tim Cook's promise that there will be "something coming in 2013" for people hungry for Mac Pro updates...

Yes, but will his "2013" for the Pros be in the same vein as his "November" for the iMac's?

[Irishman]

Originally Posted by iMacFarlane

Yes, but will his "2013" for the Pros be in the same vein as his "November" for the iMac's?

Do you see his comment more of a hint, or a promise?

[rampancy]

Originally Posted by Irishman

Do you see his comment more of a hint, or a promise?

Here's the email in question. Okay, so it's not a promise, but it's at least Tim Cook hinting that there was something for Mac Pro lovers:

Franz,

Thanks for your email. Our Pro customers like you are really important to us. Although we didn't have a chance to talk about a new Mac Pro at today's event, don't worry as we're working on something really great for later next year. We also updated the current model today.

We've been continuing to update Final Cut Pro X with revolutionary pro features like industry leading multi-cam support and we just updated Aperture with incredible new image adjustment features.

We also announced a MacBook Pro with a Retina Display that is a great solution for many pros.

Tim

That was back in June. Needless to say, if Apple decides to do something moronic and pass off it's next MacBook Pro or iMac rev as a Mac Pro replacement, a lot of people are going to be really upset.

[denisvj]

I see this as good news : http://www.cultofmac.com/212930/ea-o...e-to-mac-os-x/

[MacGamerHQ]

Originally Posted by rampancy

Ah, okay then - I've looked around for a "Part 2" of your article, but I haven't seen it. I guess the concern I have is that you did speak very highly of building a Hackintosh, but you didn't take a critical look at the potential problems that come with a Hackintosh.

The other thing is that for an article that is intended to take on a pretty wide topic such as Mac gaming as a whole, you really focus on a very narrow segment of it - where's the discussion of the indie/shareware scene? The effect of Steam? The App Store? GOG announcing Mac support (now with the use of WINE), and Origin and Desura coming to the Mac? How about how issues in the greater industry like DRM and DLC and how those have affected Mac gaming? Mac gaming is more than just coverage of the latest and greatest AAA releases and Hackintoshes...if this article is part of a continuing series, like what was posted to Polygon a few months ago, then you need to be explicit about it (and my apologies if I missed it).

Indeed, it's not "easy" to understand there's a part 2. Actually, it's not quite a part 2, but a Version 2.0.
I will have to add the links in both articles to make this clearer, thanks for the comment!

You can find it here:
The State of Mac Gaming

[iMacFarlane]

Originally Posted by Irishman

Do you see his comment more of a hint, or a promise?

Oh, I definitely saw it as a promise. Marketing and hype are all about saying things the right way, but it never works to outright lie about something. New Mac Pros are coming, but I think not til most of 2013 is a memory.

[Huntn]

The State of Mac Gaming is such that if Apple decided to stop supporting Boot Camp, I'd go out and buy a PC for gaming because I'm unwilling to allow some of the best game opportunities to pass me by.

[edddeduck]

Originally Posted by iMacFarlane

Oh, I definitely saw it as a promise. Marketing and hype are all about saying things the right way, but it never works to outright lie about something. New Mac Pros are coming, but I think not til most of 2013 is a memory.

Well they will not be available in the EU from the end of the month so I suspect it will be sooner. That's my guess.

Edwin

[Wardenski]

I have already ranted about the unworthiness of OSX for gaming.

However, I have to admit, I am curious what would happen if say, Crysis was completely re-coded for OSX. I remember someone re-made a port for a Quake game in the PPC days and it turned out the G3/G4 performed very well even compared to the latest Pentiums at the time.

I recall hearing the joy giving qualities of grand central dispatch, OpenCl etc I would be curious how games in OSX would perform vs windows if these technologies were embraced.

Edit: I meant to post this in the Mac Game Development Thread

[Dualie11]

Hello forum.

If anybody cares, I recently installed Windows 8 over top of Win 7 on my iMac (early 2012, 8GB). I was worried that Boot Camp would cause issues with drivers, but it appears that Windows simply installed the latest driver for me. The result is that I can actually run Mass Effect 3 maxed at native resolution, which is an improvement over performance in Win 7 at a lower res.

Before you get excited, I also play plenty of Mac games on my iMac, including Deus Ex: Human Revolution, Dragon Age (and DA II), Combat Mission, Call of Duty, and Nancy Drew (just kidding!).

I like the performance on the iMac. I simply don't care if I'm not at the bleeding edge of gaming performance, and I find that the iMac provides a decent gaming experience, whether or not I use Boot Camp.

I've also played Skyrim through Steam, but after 480 hours I'm so done with that title.

Like many others, I wish I didn't have to boot to Windows to play some of these titles, but it's not really a huge issue for me when I do.

[MacGamerHQ]

Originally Posted by edddeduck

Well they will not be available in the EU from the end of the month so I suspect it will be sooner. That's my guess.

Edwin

And that's a very educated guess. I hear current Mac Pros will not be available starting the 1st of March and that someone at Apple hinted at a solution for the Spring. Most people think it will be the new Mac Pros....
That would be a step in the right direction!

[Dirtyharry50]

Originally Posted by Huntn

The State of Mac Gaming is such that if Apple decided to stop supporting Boot Camp, I'd go out and buy a PC for gaming because I'm unwilling to allow some of the best game opportunities to pass me by.

I don't ever want to own a PC again myself. I think in that event, I'd just enjoy whatever I can on the Mac and for everything else go with a current gen console which would cover many if not most new releases.

[edddeduck]

Originally Posted by Wardenski

I have already ranted about the unworthiness of OSX for gaming.

However, I have to admit, I am curious what would happen if say, Crysis was completely re-coded for OSX. I remember someone re-made a port for a Quake game in the PPC days and it turned out the G3/G4 performed very well even compared to the latest Pentiums at the time.

I recall hearing the joy giving qualities of grand central dispatch, OpenCl etc I would be curious how games in OSX would perform vs windows if these technologies were embraced.

Edit: I meant to post this in the Mac Game Development Thread

By someone you mean ID Software. :-) The Quake 3 engine was written by ID to run in OpenGL mode as well as DirectX as they were a lot closer in terms of raw performance. The big benefit was the multicore support on the Mac so you could use both CPU's if you had a dual core Mac.

[b0redom]

I just bought the top end 2012 iMac, and was playing Dead Island at native res with all the effects maxed out last night. No problems at all.

The problem with a Hackintosh is that there are still as far as I can see no 100% out of the box compatible components. I spend all day designing, building and fixing tech solutions for big corporates. I could build a hackintosh, apply kexts etc, but really I can't be bothered.

I want a computer with a well tested subset of hardware that is not likely to break when I apply an update, which is why I moved from Windows->Mac in the first place. I still use Windows through bootcamp for gaming though.

My time is worth way more than the small amount of money/performance gain I could save building a hackintosh.

[Huntn]

Originally Posted by Dirtyharry50

I don't ever want to own a PC again myself. I think in that event, I'd just enjoy whatever I can on the Mac and for everything else go with a current gen console which would cover many if not most new releases.

This is true. However where your plan comes up short, at least for me, is regarding MMOs.

[Dirtyharry50]

Originally Posted by Huntn

This is true. However where your plan comes up short, at least for me, is regarding MMOs.

It doesn't come up short for me there since World of Warcraft and Lord of the Rings Online are available natively, GW2 has a cider version (I think, and still in development?) and The Elder Scrolls Online will be shipping with a Mac version. It just so happens those would be my choices to want to play anyway. WoW I am playing now.

I do like being able to boot into Windows 7 for games when I want to as things stand now. I'd be content with the options, including for MMOs though if I had to stick to Mac/console.

[Huntn]

Originally Posted by edddeduck

By someone you mean ID Software. :-) The Quake 3 engine was written by ID to run in OpenGL mode as well as DirectX as they were a lot closer in terms of raw performance. The big benefit was the multicore support on the Mac so you could use both CPU's if you had a dual core Mac.

When I look at ID's relatively recent list of games, it does not seem like they are doing much these days.

Doom 3 (2004)
Wolfenstein 3D Classic (2009)[33]
Doom Classic (2009)[34]
Quake Live (2010)
Rage HD (2010)[35]
Rage (2011)
Doom 3 BFG Edition (2012)
Doom 4 (TBA)[36]

This post is not ment to badmouth ID, just an observation. Last release 2012, Doom 3 BFG Edition, a game first released in 2004? Hmm. I don't remember D3 and Rage being huge hits. Although it was not the best game I've ever played, Doom 3 was not bad. Of note Doom 4 which is in development, does not mention Mac, at least at this point. Maybe an opportunity for Feral to come to the rescue? So how are they staying afloat for the last 8 years? Maybe being owned by Bethesda, they have been doing other stuff behind the scenes.

[rampancy]

Originally Posted by edddeduck

By someone you mean ID Software. :-) The Quake 3 engine was written by ID to run in OpenGL mode as well as DirectX as they were a lot closer in terms of raw performance. The big benefit was the multicore support on the Mac so you could use both CPU's if you had a dual core Mac.

IIRC, most of the work that ID put into optimizing Quake 3 for the Mac was done chiefly by Graeme Devine, who was responsible for the game's Altivec and multiprocessor optimizations. I believe he left to join Microsoft at Ensemble Studios to head up Halo Wars.

[edddeduck]

Originally Posted by rampancy

IIRC, most of the work that ID put into optimizing Quake 3 for the Mac was done chiefly by Graeme Devine, who was responsible for the game's Altivec and multiprocessor optimizations. I believe he left to join Microsoft at Ensemble Studios to head up Halo Wars.

As far as I know you are spot on.

Edwin

[Irishman]

Originally Posted by Wardenski

I have already ranted about the unworthiness of OSX for gaming.

However, I have to admit, I am curious what would happen if say, Crysis was completely re-coded for OSX. I remember someone re-made a port for a Quake game in the PPC days and it turned out the G3/G4 performed very well even compared to the latest Pentiums at the time.

I think developers use the systems and tools they know.

That is the reason that Crysis only runs on DirectX, not OpenGL. I don't believe that Crytek was trying to exclude Mac and Linux gamers by using DirectX. They were just using the tools they knew.

Now, Mac porting houses like Aspyr, Feral, et al, could conceivably make a deal with Crytek (now that the CryEngine 3 is available for licensing), although I'm sure international complications on such a deal would rear their ugly heads. These porters obviously have great experience with OpenGL on the Mac.

Could Crysis on OSX happen now that there are shipping Macs that can play the game at reasonable framerates and reasonable settings?

Of course, Crytek HAS made a game for iOS - Fibble - which by all accounts is a superb game graphically. But it uses OpenGL, which is encouraging. If Crytek Gmbh sees a business case to be made in making a game using OpenGL in iOS, then perhaps making the leap to the Mac OS might not be far behind?

[Irishman]

Originally Posted by Huntn

When I look at ID's relatively recent list of games, it does not seem like they are doing much these days.



This post is not ment to badmouth ID, just an observation. Last release 2012, Doom 3 BFG Edition, a game first released in 2004? Hmm. I don't remember D3 and Rage being huge hits. Although it was not the best game I've ever played, Doom 3 was not bad. Of note Doom 4 which is in development, does not mention Mac, at least at this point. Maybe an opportunity for Feral to come to the rescue? So how are they staying afloat for the last 8 years? Maybe being owned by Bethesda, they have been doing other stuff behind the scenes.

Looks like the big project over at id is Doom 4, as you said, or whatever they end up calling it.

It will give them a chance to redeem themselves after the ridiculous texture pop-in issues in Rage.