Quality : that's part of the product! Dirt behind iMac screen

Tri-stan · Feb 6, 2013

smiddlehurst said:
Umm, sorry to ask such a silly question but... are you suggesting that Apple should inspect EVERY device they manufacture for screen issues? That every device should be switched on and visually inspected before being shipped out? You know that would involve something like 60 million+ devices a quarter right?

60 million a quarter now that is optamistic right, only in Apple's wildest dreams. At current production sales are down on last year with predicted sales just over 100, 000 units per quarter untill manufacturing picks up pace. The best selling smart phone of last year 3rd quarter was the Galaxy S3 with 18 million sales. Currently it is the iPhone sales which are subsidising the iMac production unless Apple's bank balance is on the fall.

So yes I think Apple should check every screen by eye after initial camera checks are done. Unless they can improve this technology too many bad units are getting throught.

aicul · Feb 6, 2013

HenryDJP said:
The tone of your post seemed a little on the abrupt side towards me. All of that defensiveness really was unnecessary because my original post said to you to get a replacement from Apple, plain and simple, and that's what you are getting now . It just didn't make sense to me that you would even mention about getting a refund because your first Mac had dust under the glass. In my opinion that was a little extreme. Talk about rambling, you made a mountain out of a molehill.

This is my last post in your thread so a reply will not be necessary. People respond to your thread to help you see things a bit more clearly. I'm sorry if you were only expecting posts that would agree with your way of thinking. You're fighting people that are trying to help you, that's counterproductive and you already anticipating a negative experience upon getting the new replacement. Try to think positive, you most likely will get a perfectly working iMac. It's not commonplace that people get defective Macs. When you're on a forum, less than 50 people will post negatives, the other thousands of customers that don't post are happy. Good luck.

sweet and sour nothingness

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Spoiled said:
Show us the picture already!

I opted out of that, don't want to do the custard proof (see earlier post) and Apple did not need the proof (guess they will check themselves when the iMac is returned).

WilliamG · Feb 6, 2013

aicul, my replacement iMac (first one had this crazy buzzing) has a nice piece of dirt in the LCD area as well, so it's being swapped out next week. Guess this sort of thing happens..

smiddlehurst · Feb 7, 2013

Tri-stan said:
60 million a quarter now that is optamistic right, only in Apple's wildest dreams. At current production sales are down on last year with predicted sales just over 100, 000 units per quarter untill manufacturing picks up pace. The best selling smart phone of last year 3rd quarter was the Galaxy S3 with 18 million sales. Currently it is the iPhone sales which are subsidising the iMac production unless Apple's bank balance is on the fall.

So yes I think Apple should check every screen by eye after initial camera checks are done. Unless they can improve this technology too many bad units are getting throught.

*sigh*

yes, 60 million devices (note: devices, not iMac's) a quarter. Want the numbers? Fine, from the last quarter:

47.8 million iPhones
22.9 million iPads
12.7 million iPods
4.1 million Macs

Now, granted, iPod and Mac includes devices without a screen so let's knock out... say 25% each for that? Suspect that's still too high but okay. That'd give 9 million iPods and 3 million Macs. Total devices with screens: 82.7 million.

And I'm sorry but anyone expecting any mass-production company to check EVERY device they manufacture to ensure it's perfect is living in a dream world. Even if it was possible for a single line there would then be unending calls for Apple to do the same for every other product line that showed even the smallest percentage of faulty units. No, it's ridiculous and if that's what you're expecting from a mass-produced product you're always going to be disappointed I'm afraid.

aicul · Feb 7, 2013

The issue is not the one you are pointing out

Make sure the screen works

smiddlehurst said:
No, it's ridiculous and if that's what you're expecting from a mass-produced product you're always going to be disappointed I'm afraid.

**sigh** I can do that too...
Your post really relates to a product that is "mainstream", a phase the iMac 27" has not yet reached. Read on if you wish.

The title of the thread says it all "Quality : That's part of the product"

Products have a life. They are new, they are mainstream, they are mature. Quality should be constant throughout the lifetime, but a customers "quality expectations" will change.

The iMac 27" is a "new" product. And we know that :

Apple has a backlog of orders because the screen manufacturing process is not yielding as expected.
Customers are waiting (when I ordered) up to 5 weeks for delivery.
One of the "fancy" things of the 27" is exactly the 27" screen.
Since there is a backlog of orders, production numbers are low.

So one could say that the "Quality expectations" that need to be met for customer satisfaction are :

Make sure the "fancy" things work
Make sure those aspects that are causing delay work

This really means that the customer will most probably check the 27" screen carefully - a he knows that there are production problems.

Then comes the question, how to go about ensuring the expectations are met. Here it is quite simple

Make sure the screen works
Stick to your delivery dates

The reality here is simple, if a customer is willing to wait 5 weeks !! then make sure that what he is receiving actually works - with a big emphasis on the "fancy" things. If this requires "extra" checks, then do them. Not doing them is asking for trouble.

And, in all honesty, somewhere Apple is trying to recup this messy situation with a no-fuss exchange of the iMac 27".

And now for the production could. Low yields means low production counts. So the number of iMac 27" to check would be ... max ... those produced to date. I don't know the numbers, but that's not millions...

Obviously, later, when this iMac is mainstream, then it may make sense to stop the special "extra" checks.

Hence, my thread.

In the past apple was willing to post-pone sale of products until they knew that they worked.
Now Apple announces products for the x-mas holiday and then delivers a product with the "fancy" aspects not working after the x-mas holiday.

Doesn't this sound sort of awful ?

At least Apple should stick to high-quality.

LCD · Feb 7, 2013

trustever said:
rather than asking for a refund why don't you ask for a swap with a new one? You should be able to keep the current one until the new one will be delivered.

There's no advanced replacements in the US. Apple will pay for shipping and you will wait at least 2 weeks for the exchange to go through.

Steve.P.JobsFan · Feb 7, 2013

LCD said:
There's no advanced replacements in the US. Apple will pay for shipping and you will wait at least 2 weeks for the exchange to go through.

Apple did an advanced replacement last year 4 different times when I had the iPhone 4. I just had to give them my credit card number, and they put a $649 hold on my CC, and shipped me a new iPhone. I shipped my busted one back, and they cancelled the $649 hold.

Now, those few advanced replacements they did for me might be because I live 97 miles from an Apple Store, I'm not sure. All I know is they've done advanced replacements in the U.S. -- at least for me.

trustever · Feb 7, 2013

LCD said:
There's no advanced replacements in the US. Apple will pay for shipping and you will wait at least 2 weeks for the exchange to go through.

sorry did not know that, personally I have not yet had to return anything!!!

LCD · Feb 7, 2013

Steve.P.JobsFan said:
Apple did an advanced replacement last year 4 different times when I had the iPhone 4. I just had to give them my credit card number, and they put a $649 hold on my CC, and shipped me a new iPhone. I shipped my busted one back, and they cancelled the $649 hold.

Now, those few advanced replacements they did for me might be because I live 97 miles from an Apple Store, I'm not sure. All I know is they've done advanced replacements in the U.S. -- at least for me.

I do have two Apple Stores near me. But when trying to arrange for such an exchange of a 2012 21.5" iMac on December 10, an Apple Online Store operator didn't know what I was talking about. Telling him about what I read in the MacRumors forums about others getting advanced replacements didn't help.

LCD · Feb 7, 2013

trustever said:
sorry did not know that, personally I have not yet had to return anything!!!

Although it wasn't an iMac, SteveP.JobsFan from the US wrote he got an advanced replacement. If you can arrange for one trustever, let me know.

The 21.5" iMac I received on Dec 26 to replace the one I got on Dec 10 had a better display. It didn't have problems that might have been from the gluing process that the first one had. But the replacement had one bright pixel and I had gotten buyers remorse. So I returned it for credit on January 2. 20 days later I was issued the refund and ordered a Mac mini from Apple Online and an Asus 23" monitor from Amazon. I still might try a 2013 Thunderbolt Display.

Before getting the Asus, I returned an NEC monitor with a backlight whine that I bought from B&H Photo and was quickly refunded. But it cost me over $45 to ship it back by Fed Ex.

FreemanW · Feb 7, 2013

smiddlehurst said:
*sigh*

. . . . . . . And I'm sorry but anyone expecting any mass-production company to check EVERY device they manufacture to ensure it's perfect is living in a dream world. . . . . . .

That is exactly what "mass-production" is all about. Repetative perfection from CNC machinery, industrial design, and assembly design.

Do you take delivery of a new vehicle with dings in the middle of the hood or fenders, chips in the side window (it's a side window, if it were the windshield it would be different) or torn seats?

When you spend the money Apple commands for a desktop or laptop computer, it had better be A+ fsck!n6 perfect, and if it is not, I should expect that any Apple employee would be just as upset as the customer.

pete78 · Feb 8, 2013

FreemanW said:
That is exactly what "mass-production" is all about. Repetative perfection from CNC machinery, industrial design, and assembly design.

Do you take delivery of a new vehicle with dings in the middle of the hood or fenders, chips in the side window (it's a side window, if it were the windshield it would be different) or torn seats?

When you spend the money Apple commands for a desktop or laptop computer, it had better be A+ fsck!n6 perfect, and if it is not, I should expect that any Apple employee would be just as upset as the customer.

Agreed, 100%.

Ppq · Feb 8, 2013

i loled quite a lot

not a single pic in this epic thread.

smiddlehurst · Feb 8, 2013

FreemanW said:
That is exactly what "mass-production" is all about. Repetative perfection from CNC machinery, industrial design, and assembly design.

Do you take delivery of a new vehicle with dings in the middle of the hood or fenders, chips in the side window (it's a side window, if it were the windshield it would be different) or torn seats?

When you spend the money Apple commands for a desktop or laptop computer, it had better be A+ fsck!n6 perfect, and if it is not, I should expect that any Apple employee would be just as upset as the customer.

Oh for gods sake...

Look, I'm not saying you should accept a product with flaws, nowhere in my post did I say that. What I'm saying is it's inevitable that in ANY mass produced product there will be faulty units. No matter how good the tooling, no matter how clean the environment, no matter how carefully you validate component parts faults will happen if you're delivering product at mass market prices. To use your example this affects cars just as much as any other item. Doesn't matter if you're buying a BMW or a Dacia, when it's delivered you do an inspection yourself with the garage. If there's a fault it's either repaired or replaced depending on the severity. Apple offers this service for their computers if you buy in person as a Genius will set it up for you in store and you can check it over. If faults develop (or weren't caught) after the initial check you have a warranty to cover them.

What's being asked for in this thread is that a car manufacturer never, ever delivers a faulty product by taking every single one for a test drive and complete quality check before it leaves the factory. Well, factory grounds anyway, let's assume not every car company has a rooftop testrack. Does that REALLY seem reasonable to anyone?

Again, to be clear, I'm not saying you shouldn't expect Apple to fix any faults immediately. I've had more bad Apple products out of the box than good ones and am pretty familiar with their support process at this point. If there's a wide-spread issue then of course Quality Control needs to be addressed. But for a fault that affects a small number of users, certainly well within what is considered normal in the industry? No, sorry, don't accept that at all. I certainly don't accept that anyone with a hint of common sense would think it possible or practical for Apple, or any other company, to test every example of a product they manufacture before sending it to a customer.

Tri-stan · Feb 8, 2013

smiddlehurst said:
*sigh*

yes, 60 million devices (note: devices, not iMac's) a quarter. Want the numbers? Fine, from the last quarter:

47.8 million iPhones
22.9 million iPads
12.7 million iPods
4.1 million Macs

Now, granted, iPod and Mac includes devices without a screen so let's knock out... say 25% each for that? Suspect that's still too high but okay. That'd give 9 million iPods and 3 million Macs. Total devices with screens: 82.7 million.

And I'm sorry but anyone expecting any mass-production company to check EVERY device they manufacture to ensure it's perfect is living in a dream world. Even if it was possible for a single line there would then be unending calls for Apple to do the same for every other product line that showed even the smallest percentage of faulty units. No, it's ridiculous and if that's what you're expecting from a mass-produced product you're always going to be disappointed I'm afraid.

Yes so it's just macs which need to have the most scrutiny due to the demanding uses put upon them so 4.1 million screens. Given the challanges of producing the new iMacs screens it's really not that big a deal to check 500, 000 iMac screens a quarter, stop making this out to be more that it is! Apple is being lszy here.

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Quality : that's part of the product! Dirt behind iMac screen

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