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Old Feb 11, 2013, 11:38 AM   #1
Squilly
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Is the US a true republic/democracy?

Answer this question. Do you believe we live in a true democracy or republic as the government says we do? Or is it more of a communist country or dictatorship (for a lack of a better term)? There are laws set by the government without true freedoms in anything. The governments "excuse": to allow for an organized society. Honestly, I believe we can still have an ordinary society without government intervention.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 11:39 AM   #2
dukebound85
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We are not a democracy
We are not a communist state
We are not a dictatorship

We are a representative republic

Do you even know what the forms of government you list are and what they entail? If you did, you wouldn't have created this thread to put it simply.

Additionally, you really think we can have organized, ordinary society with no government? Have you not seen what happens in the face of natural disasters where the government is in disarray here? It is anything but organized. It is chaos. Looting and unlawfulness becomes the norm.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 11:45 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by dukebound85 View Post
We are not a democracy
We are not a communist state
We are not a dictatorship

We are a representative republic

Do you even know what the forms of government you list are and what they entail? If so, you would not have even asked this question.
The basis of a republic is that the elected leaders carry out the will of those who elected them. By that definition it's tough to say that we are a properly functioning republic. So its a valid question.

Ending Oil Subsidies
Universal Healthcare
Background checks on guns
Renewable energy

The list of examples where US policy is completely contradictory to public opinion (hell just look at the near universal support for background checks, yet even that can't get done without major interference from groups that don't represent the American people) is staggering, and has been for decades.

So in summation, the OP has a valid question that is worth the interesting discussion.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 11:49 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by NT1440 View Post
The basis of a republic is that the elected leaders carry out the will of those who elected them. By that definition it's tough to say that we are a properly functioning republic. So its a valid question.

Ending Oil Subsidies
Universal Healthcare
Background checks on guns
Renewable energy

The list of examples where US policy is completely contradictory to public opinion (hell just look at the near universal support for background checks, yet even that can't get done without major interference from groups that don't represent the American people) is staggering, and has been for decades.

So in summation, the OP has a valid question that is worth the interesting discussion.
I would argue your premise is wrong. We elect officials largely on where they stand on issues. We do not dictate how they vote nor require that they bend to the will of the population once in office. They are accountable to the voters and if the voters do not approve of their representative's actions, they elect someone else next term.

The very fact we elect officials makes the OP's comparison to a dictatorship/communist state absurd.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 12:02 PM   #5
Squilly
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Originally Posted by dukebound85 View Post
I would argue your premise is wrong. We elect officials largely on where they stand on issues. We do not dictate how they vote nor require that they bend to the will of the population once in office. They are accountable to the voters and if the voters do not approve of their representative's actions, they elect someone else next term.

The very fact we elect officials makes the OP's comparison to a dictatorship/communist state absurd.
Forget that. We elect officials. Who says they follow through? Happens on every presidential election. Never follows through on everything they say. Yeah, we can get them demoted from office but it's unlikely.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 12:08 PM   #6
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Forget that. We elect officials. Who says they follow through? Happens on every presidential election. Never follows through on everything they say. Yeah, we can get them demoted from office but it's unlikely.
Not only that, but when the system is set up by interests and corporations to ensure whoever is waiting to run is the same old story on the issues that matter (energy, war, environment) is going to continue the same pathetic path we've been on for 60+ years, how is electing a new guy with the same views on everything but social issues a choice?

No one can make it to the big time stage without the support of the wealthy individuals and companies that really control policy, so how is that a republic?

Now if we want to ask do we have the illusion of a republic I'd say definitely. That said, no one who looks at the whole scope (not just the election process but the entire structure that feeds into it) can say this is a functional republic.

If anyone has any questions as to what I mean when talking about the structure itself being rigged: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1537143. I have to give the GOP credit for at least being honest about it. The Dems just do the same thing on the big issues (listed above) but smile and shake your hand while plowing you.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 12:08 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Squilly View Post
Forget that. We elect officials. Who says they follow through? Happens on every presidential election. Never follows through on everything they say. Yeah, we can get them demoted from office but it's unlikely.

I don't know why I am even replying to this. Do you have any clue how our government works? Based on your posts, I'd have to vote no.

And what the hell does "demoted from office" mean?
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 12:10 PM   #8
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Are you working on a high school assignment?
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 12:14 PM   #9
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Are you working on a high school assignment?
No. None of this is an "assignment". My threads are just of interest to me.

----------

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Originally Posted by rdowns View Post
I don't know why I am even replying to this. Do you have any clue how our government works? Based on your posts, I'd have to vote no.

And what the hell does "demoted from office" mean?
Yeah, I do. Took Political Science last semester. Can't think of the word...
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 12:15 PM   #10
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No. None of this is an "assignment". My threads are just of interest to me.

----------



Yeah, I do. Took Political Science last semester. Can't think of the word...
removed is the word....
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 12:16 PM   #11
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Yeah, I do. Took Political Science last semester. Can't think of the word...
Impeachment? Thats more of an investigation into misconduct which can then result in a firing from the governing body, but that is totally different from "demoted".
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 12:22 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Squilly View Post
Yeah, I do. Took Political Science last semester. Can't think of the word...

You took a PolSci course and you wrote this?

Quote:
Or is it more of a communist country or dictatorship (for a lack of a better term)?
I take it you failed the course.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 12:23 PM   #13
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You took a PolSci course and you wrote this?



I take it you failed the course.
I think you should focus more on the "lack of a better term" aspect. I think he's trying to talk about oligarchy, but to be honest I may be projecting.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 12:27 PM   #14
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You took a PolSci course and you wrote this?



I take it you failed the course.
Got a B.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 12:48 PM   #15
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One thing for sure is we're no longer have a constitutionally-limited representative government that does the will of the people here as corporations are buying our politicians. If anything, we have fascism at the core and what looks like democracy on the surface.

The founders aren't just rolling over in their graves, they're doing flips that make Cirque performers look like amateurs.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 01:01 PM   #16
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Oligarchs and plutocrats run this joint. It can only be a real republic if more people choose to be informed voters.

First step would be to never vote for an incumbent. They all need to go.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 01:17 PM   #17
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Don't you have a representative democracy, at least in theory? Why do so many of you insist it's "a republic, not a democracy"? Is it something to do with party affiliations?
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 01:27 PM   #18
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Oligarchs and plutocrats run this joint. It can only be a real republic if more people choose to be informed voters.

First step would be to never vote for an incumbent. They all need to go.


Choose to be informed voters? As always, easy to say, much harder to do. The mainstream media is controlled by the very plutocrats that bought our politicians. They present the very easily accessible propaganda that people eat up. In my opinion, most people are really that dumb and don't have time or the willingness to be better informed so they believe what they see on TV. And since the media is such a powerful tool, it is doing a disservice to everyone else by force feeding people propaganda.

I agree that many politicians to need to get the boot. There are a few however, that can stay. Guys like Bernie Sanders is a good example.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 01:39 PM   #19
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No. None of this is an "assignment". My threads are just of interest to me.
And no one else.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 01:50 PM   #20
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It's always a democracy as long as we can vote. Whether we vote or not.

Anything else you believe this country is happens to really be a part of social engineering.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 01:55 PM   #21
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Oligarchs and plutocrats run this joint. It can only be a real republic if more people choose to be informed voters.

First step would be to never vote for an incumbent. They all need to go.
This is an awful idea. There was a reason that the incumbent won the previous election. The opposing party and candidate kept shooting themselves in the foot. I do agree, however, that we need to be more informed voters. Too many people are relying on feaux news programs to tell them what to believe.

That said, by your model the opposition could throw Hitler up there and everyone should vote for him (though, some in this country probably would).
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 01:58 PM   #22
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This is an awful idea. There was a reason that the incumbent won the previous election. The opposing party and candidate kept shooting themselves in the foot. I do agree, however, that we need to be more informed voters. Too many people are relying on feaux news programs to tell them what to believe.

That said, by your model the opposition could throw Hitler up there and everyone should vote for him (though, some in this country probably would).
He'd also suggested the only declared socialist in congress, as his good example of incumbents to stay.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 02:02 PM   #23
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My threads are just of interest to me.
Ain't that the truth.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 02:53 PM   #24
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There is a lot of problems in the US (and the UK, where I live). However, when voters are mobilized they do influence politicians. An example here in the UK is that the Lib Tories wanted to sell (OK - lease for 100 years) national forests. As someone put it beautifully: The government couldn't sell the forest because it wasn't theirs to sell. More than 400,000 signed a petition against it, and no government in the near or long term would ever re-visit this issue unless the wanted to commit political suicide.

I think that as people become more educated via the internet, we will see better voting and better behaviour among politicians, My main worry is the rise of multi-national corporations that slither from country to country hiding profits, giving their fatcat managers ridiculous bonuses, bribing politicians, and distorting everything. The banking industry comes to mind, but so does petroleum, mining, logging etc. Thus, I think corporations should be banned from contributing to politicians, even if that requires a Constitutional amendment.

The US is doing fine. The only thing that prevents it from doing better is a lack of participation. Too few people vote.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 02:54 PM   #25
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Don't you have a representative democracy, at least in theory? Why do so many of you insist it's "a republic, not a democracy"? Is it something to do with party affiliations?
Ask three different people to define "democracy" and "republic" and you'll get six different answers. Ask three different experts or scholars and you'll probably get similar variation.

But communist (which, by the way, is an economic system, not political) or dictatorship? Umm, no.

The OP seems to use those terms to mean they're synonymous with "a system of laws I don't like." Just wait until he lives in a true democracy where everybody gets together and votes to throw him in a Gulag.
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