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Old Feb 11, 2013, 03:16 PM   #176
Brian Y
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HelveticaRoman View Post
Yeh, it costs so much more to download software from a website in the UK than the US.
Lol. I'm not talking about software downloads. I'm talking about running a retail store, and running a business in that country.

Nice attempt though.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 03:17 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by Lone Deranger View Post
Best response ever.


Furthermore, this is what the EU should be doing (instead of worrying about Mac Pro fans). Well done Oz! I hope you get somewhere with this.
The same should be done in Brazil, where Apple devices are the most expensive in the world (and NO, this is not just because of import taxes and overall red tape).

The cheapest, most basic 21" iMac is US$ 3142.

Likewise for cars in the country, companies LOVE to inflate their prices and blame it on the government by not showing what the tax load really is (i.e., hidden profit margins) - unfortunately most people keep buying them, so there is no incentive to lower prices unless the government steps in, like Australia is doing now.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 03:26 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by BRLawyer View Post
The same should be done in Brazil, where Apple devices are the most expensive in the world (and NO, this is not just because of import taxes and overall red tape).
Another one of the world's most overvalued currencies. Funny how that works so consistently, you'd think maybe that it wasn't totally a coincidence.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 03:28 PM   #179
Lancer
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Okay just saw the same news on TV and I think the Apple part is being over blown, it's mostly software they are talking about and the likes of Adobe. Apple is not too bad on this front, get the latest OS X for $19.99 in the US, that's $20.99 here which when you take off the 10% GST is actually cheaper than the US price.

Adobe needs to be held to account with a 50% price gouge for prices here in Australia.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 03:32 PM   #180
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Another one of the world's most overvalued currencies. Funny how that works so consistently, you'd think maybe that it wasn't totally a coincidence.
Actually it's always been like that - there is no linkage to the overvaluation of the Brazilian Real, which has considerably fallen in value over the last six months at least.

Besides, my example in terms of car prices applies even when production is totally local - the same cars, produced in Brazil, still sell for at least double in Brazil than in places like Argentina or Mexico.

Call it welfare defined as "willingness to pay" - or call it an imperfectly informed market where a sizeable part of the population still agrees to pay such high prices (the same, to a lesser extent, happens in Switzerland).
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 03:36 PM   #181
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I found it a bit hard to follow the numbers...but here's my reasoning:

Retail companies LOVE to sell things that end in "99"...like $11.99 or $1299 or $2299.

Now, when you take the above examples in USA dollars and convert them to _____ money, you're going to get all kinds of non-"99" amounts.

Therefore...Apple (or whatever company) looks at their $1999 model in the USA and figures out after a pure currency conversion that it's going to sell for $2075 in Australia...and Apple doesn't like that number...Apple is either going to sell it in Australia for $1999 Australian money or $2099 Australian money or some other "99" Australian money. Period. End of story.

If Australians don't like that...well...welcome to life. I'm sure there are a few products I can buy in the USA that come from other countries that are expensive/cheap in my USA dollar compared to their originating nation.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 03:42 PM   #182
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I'm not too concerned about the hardware pricing since they adjusted the prices to more or less on parity vs the US dollar. I think the main reason for the summon is over digital delivered content - e.g. Paying different prices for a song/software (e.g. Photoshop) downloaded from different parts of the world.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 03:43 PM   #183
Lancer
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Originally Posted by ericinboston View Post
Therefore...Apple (or whatever company) looks at their $1999 model in the USA and figures out after a pure currency conversion that it's going to sell for $2075 in Australia...and Apple doesn't like that number...Apple is either going to sell it in Australia for $1999 Australian money or $2099 Australian money or some other "99" Australian money. Period. End of story.
So how does this work when $1US right now = $1.03AU?

That means the iMac at $1999US should = about $1946AU, so round up to $1949 or $1999...

Basically right now (and it's been this way for a couple of years) the Australian currency is worth MORE than the US one. There for prices before taxes should be less, especially considering our hardware has less distance to travel from their Asian manufactures.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 03:49 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by BRLawyer View Post
Actually it's always been like that - there is no linkage to the overvaluation of the Brazilian Real, which has considerably fallen in value over the last six months at least.

Besides, my example in terms of car prices applies even when production is totally local - the same cars, produced in Brazil, still sell for at least double in Brazil than in places like Argentina or Mexico.

Call it welfare defined as "willingness to pay" - or call it an imperfectly informed market where a sizeable part of the population still agrees to pay such high prices (the same, to a lesser extent, happens in Switzerland).
Right, so call it the market price for goods in that country, which has been my point all along. No company can expect to sell into a market like Brazil at twice the market price in that country for similar goods. Not Apple, not Microsoft, not Ford, not anybody.

The Real may have fallen some recently but it still remains one of the more overvalued currencies in the world. The best way to look at this is through the Burgernomics exercise from the Economist. It's still #4 on the list, after Venezuela, and the Scandinavian countries.

http://www.economist.com/content/big-mac-index

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancer View Post
So how does this work when $1US right now = $1.03AU?

That means the iMac at $1999US should = about $1946AU, so round up to $1949 or $1999...

Basically right now (and it's been this way for a couple of years) the Australian currency is worth MORE than the US one. There for prices before taxes should be less, especially considering our hardware has less distance to travel from their Asian manufactures.
As I pointed out above, the USD has fallen by more than 50% against the AUD over the past 12 years or so, so the AUD is worth way more. Currency units are meaningless; it's entirely a matter of what you can buy with a given amount of money. People also often like to say that the CND is at "parity" with the USD now, but as anyone who has travelled between the two counties knows, this is hardly the case. Similar goods cost 20-30% more in USD if you buy them in Canada, and vice-versa.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 03:56 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by gnasher729 View Post
I think you will find that in Norway, Apple doesn't accept US dollars.

And you'll probably find that all the consumer protection laws in Norway don't come for free.
Sorry for converting it for you... 11992 NOK, now is that better?
Apple seems to be doing their best to avoid the consumer protection laws here in Norway... The laws might look great on paper, but in reality they aren't worth much, and hence won't cost Apple much...
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 03:57 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by schmidm77 View Post
Please define what you think "price gouging" means?
From Wiki:
A seller prices goods or commodities much higher than is considered reasonable or fair.


If you read the article, it actually uses the term Price Gouging....
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 04:02 PM   #187
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I don't get this report. Nobody here in Australia is complaining about the price of iMacs! We are winging about the price of iTunes songs! A single track costs $2.19 compared to $1.29 in the states! But what adobe is doing is just plain shocking! CS6 master collection works out to be $4454US compared to $2699 in the states. And Australian GST tax isn't applicable on digital downloads from offshore.

Go figure
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 04:03 PM   #188
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It's a shame that Apple is on the list. If it was just Microsoft and Adobe, this thread would have a significantly different tone and attitude on this issue. :P

Apple have been much improved in the last year or so. However, Adobe...

Get this. From Adobe website: Photoshop CS6, in the US, US$699. In Australia, AU$1062 (excluding tax).

You don't need to pull a calculator out to know that is price gouging.

But lets...

AU1062/.97= US1095.

1095/699 = 396

396/699*100 = 56.6%!!!!!!

So, yeah, Apple are doing okay in Australia, but hope the government comes down like a ton of bricks on Adobe.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 04:11 PM   #189
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Regarding some of the postings here, especially by Americans. What a bunch of whining, bad-natured fanboys.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 04:12 PM   #190
Lancer
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Originally Posted by ChrisH3677 View Post
Get this. From Adobe website: Photoshop CS6, in the US, US$699. In Australia, AU$1062 (excluding tax).

You don't need to pull a calculator out to know that is price gouging.

So, yeah, Apple are doing okay in Australia, but hope the government comes down like a ton of bricks on Adobe.
I agree, hardware like Apple has many more issues getting them from a factory to the customer. Even music on iTunes as issues with copyright and local laws plus record company deals but with software coming from the same company should have non of these issues, especially if they are being delivered digitally. Local taxes aside they should have the same base price, maybe fixed the the $US given most things are. There is no excuse for a 50% or more price gouge from Adobe for international customers... and they wonder why piracy is rampant in some countries.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 04:12 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by Brian Y View Post
Lol. I'm not talking about software downloads. I'm talking about running a retail store, and running a business in that country.

Nice attempt though.
You mean the same country in which Starbucks et al pay no tax?
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 04:12 PM   #192
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One of the primary reasons why Apple charges a premium in other countries is because it takes a lot of work and money to start selling products there. Each time you enter a new market, you must donate a lot of resources towards legal departments to work out all the laws and regulations in the country and adhere to all their laws, you must file for patents within that country as well, set up an office in the country and a customer support network. Entering a new country is not an easy feat. If you look at Brazil, Apple might even lose their right to use the trademark "iPhone" there because there was a ******** trademark license thus costing apple hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars to settle that. It takes years to overcome the initial costs of selling a product in a new country and this is Apple's way of compensating for those costs.

The other reason is that they can. If people don't want them they don't have to buy them. A similar case reached the supreme court in the U.S. when Microsoft was sued for selling their OS for over a hundred dollars when it cost less than a dollar to produce the cd it was sold on. When he got up in front of the Supreme Court, his reason was "because I can." We have a free market. We can charge what we want. It is only an issue if the companies have conspired together to raise prices in the country to extort them and get more money out of them.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 04:20 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by Robert.Walter View Post
Ever see the ridiculous mains connectors the Brit's use?

An industrial size plug like that, not benefitting from economies of scale (in design, test, manufacturing, logistics, documentation and certification) deserves a price penalty... The rest is probably due to having to be delivered in RHD vehicles.
However, if you buy a Mac in Hong Kong you will receive the same plug and Apple products there are about the same price as they are in the US.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 04:23 PM   #194
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right since the computers are made in China...I think Australia and China are a bit closer than China and the USA
Barely... it's 7300KM from HK to Sydney. It's a lot further than it looks on the map.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 04:24 PM   #195
Lancer
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IMO this is not about the price of Apple products, we all know Apple charges a premium but that is debatable as I did some PC price checks compared to my new iMac spec and found the gaps a lot closer than some would you you believe.

As I said earlier its the price difference and especially for software and music, thus the reason Apple has been dragged into this. Even with different laws and record deals a 30% difference in price for a download it steep.

As for costs involved in selling products in new countries, Apple has been selling here in Australia for more than 20 years. I still remember my parents picking up a Mac Plus back in the day and the high price they paid back then.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 04:24 PM   #196
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There's a $110 difference between a 2.6Ghz 15" MacBook Pro Retina between countries excluding tax.

There's a $380 difference between a 12 core server Mac Pro.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 04:25 PM   #197
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Ridiculous. It's called a free market. We don't tell you how to price your fosters.
But the thing is its not a free market, lots of products you can buy that is priced more in Australia, UK, ...etc cannot be posted/downloaded from the US.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 04:28 PM   #198
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The other reason is that they can. If people don't want them they don't have to buy them. A similar case reached the supreme court in the U.S. when Microsoft was sued for selling their OS for over a hundred dollars when it cost less than a dollar to produce the cd it was sold on. When he got up in front of the Supreme Court, his reason was "because I can."
I'd sure like to see your reference for this interesting factoid.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 04:29 PM   #199
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There's a $110 difference between a 2.6Ghz 15" MacBook Pro Retina between countries excluding tax.

There's a $380 difference between a 12 core server Mac Pro.
Mac Pro's weigh a whole lot more than a rMBP.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 04:31 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by Skoopman View Post
As the others have said, we in Europe pay a lot more than the Aussies and nobody complains. The base iMac (21,5") costs 1.513 USD in Romania (without tax [24%]) compared to 1.299 in the US. There is no official Apple store here, only resellers, every one of them adds a premium price (about 100$), so we basically pay twice. Still, nobody complains.
I hear European complain all the time
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