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Old Feb 5, 2013, 09:16 AM   #51
dynaflash
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deleting or replacing hb does not remove the activity logs. they are found according to the instructions a couple posts up.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 09:26 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by dynaflash View Post
deleting or replacing hb does not remove the activity logs. they are found according to the instructions a couple posts up.
I shall do that and get back to you. Thanks.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 05:43 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by dynaflash View Post
deleting or replacing hb does not remove the activity logs. they are found according to the instructions a couple posts up.
I found my logs. As I expected, I was encoding using the H264 Levels:

mixed-refs=1:b-adapt=2:b-pyramid=none:trellis=0:weightp=0:vbv-maxrate=5500:vbv-bufsize=5500

And yes, I realize that this was probably used in the ATV2 preset. I will adjust accordingly.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 05:46 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwazytech View Post
I found my logs. As I expected, I was encoding using the H264 Levels:

mixed-refs=1:b-adapt=2:b-pyramid=none:trellis=0:weightp=0:vbv-maxrate=5500:vbv-bufsize=5500

And yes, I realize that this was probably used in the ATV2 preset. I will adjust accordingly.
I think the "Nightly" needs an apology.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 06:00 PM   #55
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I think the "Nightly" needs an apology.
Noted.

Other than the fact that this code probably led to my earlier pixelation problem, is it still a good code to use for ATV3 1080 encodes? All my other encodes look good to me, and I'm kind of used to the file sizes.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 06:08 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwazytech View Post
I found my logs. As I expected, I was encoding using the H264 Levels:

mixed-refs=1:b-adapt=2:b-pyramid=none:trellis=0:weightp=0:vbv-maxrate=5500:vbv-bufsize=5500

And yes, I realize that this was probably used in the ATV2 preset. I will adjust accordingly.
heh, those are in fact atv 1 preset opts. there are no levels implicit there. You were not comparing apples to oranges ... more apples to ... cheese.

Neither atv 3 preset or atv 2 preset used weightp=0. That was particular to the AppleTV 1.

So, afaict .. after all of this ... you are comparing apples to cheese. And whatever the point ...

Code:
vbv-maxrate=5500:vbv-bufsize=5500
will pretty much guarantee that your encodes will be much smaller regardless of your rf setting. As well they will look much worse (those settings will cap bitrate where HB wants to add some where needed to increase visual quality).

Basically this thread is a bust afaict. Sorry.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwazytech View Post
Noted.

Other than the fact that this code probably led to my earlier pixelation problem, is it still a good code to use for ATV3 1080 encodes? All my other encodes look good to me, and I'm kind of used to the file sizes.
No, and in fact that is as I said why you had 1. low file sizes / bitrate and 2. pixelation problems.

In the future if you want to go down this road ... please save us all a lot of time when you mess around and pastebin your logs. There is a reason for it. You frankly imo misrepresented what you were doing and were complaining about.

Much time was spent looking for a bug that ... never existed.

Btw, the presets use audio aac first track, ac3 second track. None of your logs showed that. Which is fine but claiming you are "using the atv 3 preset and something changed in hb" is at the very least, misleading. Frankly afaik you never even used it.

... Food for thought. Just sayin'.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 06:24 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dynaflash View Post
Basically this thread is a bust afaict. Sorry.
I think I would disagree. I learned a lot from this thread. Things I really needed to catch up on. For which, I am grateful.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by dynaflash View Post
In the future if you want to go down this road ... please save us all a lot of time when you mess around and pastebin your logs. There is a reason for it. You frankly imo misrepresented what you were doing and were complaining about.

Much time was spent looking for a bug that ... never existed.


Btw, the presets use audio aac first track, ac3 second track. None of your logs showed that. Which is fine but claiming you are "using the atv 3 preset and something changed in hb" is at the very least, misleading. Frankly afaik you never even used it.

... Food for thought. Just sayin'.
My apologies. I did use a preset, but failed to mention what I altered. I just didn't know how specific I had to be. I'm really no expert at this. I usually follow forums and stick with suggestions that I read. And I wasn't looking for a bug. I was looking for a change in preset codes. I'm sorry I didn't make that clear. But as I stated, I learned a lot. I didn't mean to inconvenience anyone. I apparently don't understand how to use forums either.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 09:55 PM   #58
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I did use a preset, but failed to mention what I altered. I just didn't know how specific I had to be. I'm really no expert at this.
Hey, no harm no foul

LOL, tbh you had me "stepping and fetching" a bit.

Anytime you choose a preset, then change things .. its no longer the preset.

This is the main reason activity logs help an aweful lot. Then we know *exactly* what you did only to help narrow down if there is truly a problem with HB. If there is (and yes, it does happen more than you might suspect from time to time) it can be sussed out.

A lot of time was spent to get the best of all worlds from the ATV 3 preset. If there are reasonable complaints about it I want to know. Now, I hope you realize that the earlier low files sizes were because you were using actually the Appletv 1 preset (hence the low vbv). The AppleTV 3 preset has a much higher vbv since it is much more capable cpu wise.

Synopsis: Basically from what I can tell, you were raising the quality (lowering the rf) which asks for more bitrate and therefore file size *however* capping it with vbv buffer.

Please understand, vbv will override any bitrate you ask for whether it be via abr encoding or constant quality encoding. Period. Its a hard cap. Hence why I think you had low file sizes and as well on some sources ... pixellating (where the frames wanted more bitrate but the vbv denied it).

Basically, HB wanted to try to honor your rf of 18 (which imo is ridiculous for a blu ray source) but the vbv opts prevented it. Therefore on scenes where more bitrate was needed to get the quality you want. HB capped it, hence the pixellation.

The vbv opts are there for a given RF of 20. Change that and things go obtuse.

All of that said, I hope you find that your HB Nightly (using the actual AppleTV 3 preset) is to your liking. If you wanna change something maybe ask a bit first to save a bit of time.

Have fun!
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 06:21 PM   #59
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Dynaflash...One last thing.

Okay, I am working with the ATV3 preset(Modified) and have one last question. I am encoding Toy Story 3 from an MKV that was created from a Blu Ray source. I've done this twice. The first time, I chose the ATV3 preset and modified the H264 Profile from High to Main, and the H264 Level from 4.0 to 3.0. Link: http://pastebin.com/x0t47FAD

Then I encoded the same mkv file selecting the ATV3 preset and changing nothing but the audio parameters. I changed the audio parameters for the first encode as well. Link: http://pastebin.com/M2RNnP2R

Now, not really understanding the difference, I had anticipated that the first encode would result in a smaller file size than the second encode. But I was wrong. The first one created a file size of 4.47gigs and the second one was 4.04gigs. Why?

I really hope I gave enough detail, and I apologize if you feel you answered this already, but I'm scratching my head on this one. I'm going to try and make this my last question. Thanks.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 08:13 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwazytech View Post
I am encoding Toy Story 3 from an MKV that was created from a Blu Ray source. I've done this twice. The first time, I chose the ATV3 preset and modified the H264 Profile from High to Main, and the H264 Level from 4.0 to 3.0. Link: http://pastebin.com/x0t47FAD
Why do you insist on changing things when you don't know why ? I am frankly befuddled by this. I will take a look at the rest. But I just have no idea what you are trying so hard to achieve ?

----------

Going from high to main and then level 4 to 3 of course will result in a larger file. But again, *why* are you messing with this ?
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 08:31 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by dynaflash View Post
Why do you insist on changing things when you don't know why ? I am frankly befuddled by this.
I've read enough if these threads to know that "everyone" changes settings here and there. I read a thread recently where you stated that you change the audio settings to 320kbps. I'm simply trying to achieve modest file sizes and to understand how these settings work.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dynaflash View Post
Going from high to main and then level 4 to 3 of course will result in a larger file. But again, *why* are you messing with this ?
Why "of course"?

Actually, never mind. Clearly I'm annoying people when I'm simply just trying to understand things here.


Oh, and I encoded that 54min mkv file from my earlier posts, also changing the profile to main and the level to 3.0, and it resulted in a smaller file size. Go fig.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 06:40 AM   #62
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If you want to make the resultant file sizes smaller, try increasing the RF value. Realize that what you are asking for, when you ask for a smaller file, is essentially a lower quality file and just raise the RF. Changing things randomly might lead to a smaller file, but I'd bet the odds are extremely high that the quality is going to be lower than it would have been if you just, simply raised the RF to hit that file size.

If there was a known setting in Handbrake that would magically make a smaller, but equal quality file, it would have been included in the preset.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 10:13 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwazytech View Post
Why "of course"?
Because, a "lower" level and profiles uses less stringent encoding options (typically to allow playback compatibility for a given device, etc.). So, at the exact same rf value "lowering" those will typically create a larger file on the exact same source. Higher compression options are used in higher profiles and levels however often with a possible impact on device compatibiity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwazytech View Post
Actually, never mind. Clearly I'm annoying people when I'm simply just trying to understand things here.
No, you are not annoying anyone however as others have stated you need to setup a systematic testing system if you want to change things willy nilly especially with x264 options. Also I spent a fair bit of time going by your descriptions of what was happening only to find out via activity logs etc that you handn't actually done what you said you had. Which is fine of course but again, less than accurate. People have tried to help you as much as possible on their own free time, which again is fine but Don't get mad because people don't want to explain every option HB / x264 has. It is not a one paragraph "quickie". Like vbv, it was set for a given rf, you change the rf but leave the vbv and voila, things change drastically as I explained up above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwazytech View Post
Oh, and I encoded that 54min mkv file from my earlier posts, also changing the profile to main and the level to 3.0, and it resulted in a smaller file size. Go fig.
Smaller size than what ? The earlier encode done with the same exact settings ? Your claim is that a different HB rev is creating different size output files with the exact same settings and source (as I understand it). I would need again to see the log from each encode which will provide much more detail as well as things like the svn number from each hb rev you are comparing. Otherwise, its like throwing darts in the dark.

If you have the two logs from each encode for that same source, please post them on pastebin.com and link to it here like you did for the one before. Then people have much more info to try to help.

Last edited by dynaflash; Feb 7, 2013 at 10:41 AM.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 06:22 PM   #64
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In regards to Aspect ratio, what's the difference between Loose, Modulus 2 & Strict?
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Old Feb 8, 2013, 05:51 PM   #65
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I'm not going to lie. This ATV3 preset will take some getting used to. I encoded Toy Story.mkv from a BluRay source, changing only the Audio Kbps(Because I wanted to), and it spit out a file 3.2 gigs from a 19gig mkv. Then I did the same exact thing with Aliens, a 32.6 gig mkv, and the end file was 24.5 gigs.
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Old Feb 8, 2013, 06:51 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwazytech View Post
I'm not going to lie. This ATV3 preset will take some getting used to. I encoded Toy Story.mkv from a BluRay source, changing only the Audio Kbps(Because I wanted to), and it spit out a file 3.2 gigs from a 19gig mkv. Then I did the same exact thing with Aliens, a 32.6 gig mkv, and the end file was 24.5 gigs.
... and you are surpised ... why? Toy Story is a very clean cgi animation. It requires very little bitrate to keep a given visual quality. Aliens (the original http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090605/?ref_=sr_1 ) is very complex and as well is extremely grainy. I am not remotely surprised by your results using constant quality encoding. It is not a problem with the atv3 preset. You simply have two extremely different sources and are asking HB to keep the resulting encodes to have the same level of perceptive visual quality.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwazytech View Post
In regards to Aspect ratio, what's the difference between Loose, Modulus 2 & Strict?
Little to none. The only reason HB still has strict is there is a corner case bug in loose ana in hb on about no pal sources. once that is fixed, strict will probably go away and just be replaced finally by loose ana mod 2.
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Old Feb 8, 2013, 07:01 PM   #67
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... and you are surpised ... why?
I'm no longer surprised by larger file sizes, but yes. A 24gig movie caught me off guard. How do you handle it? Do you accept it as is or do you pick other presets to bring the file size down?
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Old Feb 8, 2013, 07:12 PM   #68
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I'm no longer surprised by larger file sizes, but yes. A 24gig movie caught me off guard. How do you handle it? Do you accept it as is or do you pick other presets to bring the file size down?
well, I use personally the atv preset without vbv and rf 22. I am guessing you are still ramping the atv 3 preset up to a rf of 18 ? If so imo that is a crazy rf for a 1080p blu ray source.

Aliens is a notoriously huge bitrate hit. Very grainy and very complex scenes.
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Old Feb 8, 2013, 07:16 PM   #69
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well, I use personally the atv preset without vbv and rf 22. I am guessing you are still ramping the atv 3 preset up to a rf of 18 ? If so imo that is a crazy rf for a 1080p blu ray source.

Aliens is a notoriously huge bitrate hit. Very grainy and very complex scenes.
No no. I'm coming to terms with the ATV3 preset and an RF of 20. How does one remove vbv?
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 12:35 PM   #70
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No answer?
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 05:28 PM   #71
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No answer?
I would recommend you post your questions about detailed HB modification on the HB forum. Lot's of technical help there.
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 05:48 PM   #72
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I would recommend you post your questions about detailed HB modification on the HB forum. Lot's of technical help there.
Wow.
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 08:30 PM   #73
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Wow.
Why would you say "wow" ... really ?

Code:
vbv-maxsize=0:vbv-bufsize=0

in the extra opts field should nullify it.
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 09:07 PM   #74
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Code:
vbv-maxsize=0:vbv-bufsize=0

in the extra opts field should nullify it.

I shall give this a try. Thanks again for all your help.
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