Register FAQ / Rules Forum Spy Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > MacRumors.com News Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:55 PM   #76
Patriot24
macrumors 68000
 
Patriot24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hastings101 View Post
Promote some third party controller as "Apple Approved" or some dumb slogan to get developers to use it and it'd be a great low-price gaming console too.
The only "Apple Approved" controllers will be iPod Touches, iPhones, and iPads.
__________________
iphone + air + ipad + time capsule + classic + shuffle + tv
Patriot24 is offline   4 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:55 PM   #77
rmwebs
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwm2 View Post
You are right. Do you own a 4k tv? Does anyone in this thread or on this forum own a 4k tv? Last i checked they were still 10k+. So yeah i see your point
Look, we get it - you like to argue and dont like Microsoft

I'm looking at the long run here, not the TODAY market. The new consoles will be out by xmas and will likely support 4k - given that TV manufacturers have already said that 4k pricing will be a hell of a lot more reasonable by 2014, its not unrealistic to expect that over the next couple of years we'll see it adopted a lot more widely.

So, come 2014 lets hypothetically say 4k tv's are at a semi-reasonable price, why the hell would someone want to have an Apple TV with cut-down games they can get on their phone, when they can get a real console, with real online multiplayer gaming with beefy games.

Games like LA Noire for example take up 16GB Space minimum. Distributing games like that over an AppStore is just not feasible.

There's too many things that Apple would have to overcome. The filesizes (and no, dumbing down the games is not the right way to go, and people wouldn't accept that).

Realistically the only way Apple could do it is with technology such as onlive.
rmwebs is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:56 PM   #78
roadbloc
macrumors 604
 
roadbloc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: UK
Send a message via Skype™ to roadbloc
Still not seeing it happen... but I'm no expert.
__________________
roadbloc is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:57 PM   #79
jwm2
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMar View Post
Again no. It's a convince thing. You're out and bored, it's easy to play a game for 5 minutes. Those same people are not going to make a conscious choice to sit in front of a TV and do the same thing let alone do it for an extended period of time. Mobile gaming is what you do to waste time when you're doing other things. Console gaming is a conscious choice to sit and just do that. The people who only mobile game, if sitting in front of a TV, will choose to watch TV rather than play games.
I've been a console gamer all of my life. I've owned every console and handheld since the Atari 2600. Remember the virtual boy? Game gear? Turbo Express? Turbo Grafix 16? Neo Geo AES? Sega Saturn? So i'm well aware of what consoles are, in fact it kind of ties into my day job (signature). I'm well aware of where the console market is heading and what will happen next. I'm also aware that someone as hardcore as myself now prefers to play games on his iPad vs the xbox 360, ps3 and nintendo wii which are collecting dust. My daughters have a nintendo wii in their bedroom (it never gets played), they also own several nintendo ds handhelds and a psp(those don't get played either). Do you know what i bought my oldest daughter for christmas? An iPad mini, my youngest daughter still plays her iPod touch and borrows her mom's iPad as she is still too young to have one of her own. If someone like me can change their spots then it means the market is pivoting.
__________________
Handmade Natural Skin Care Products for Geeks (owned and operated by my wife)
Xbox 360 Controller Mods (owned and operated since 2001)
jwm2 is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:58 PM   #80
rmwebs
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriot24 View Post
The only "Apple Approved" controllers will be iPod Touches, iPhones, and iPads.
Which would be an instant fail given that you need to be able to feel what buttons you're pressing.
rmwebs is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:59 PM   #81
alent1234
macrumors 603
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmwebs View Post
Look, we get it - you like to argue and dont like Microsoft

I'm looking at the long run here, not the TODAY market. The new consoles will be out by xmas and will likely support 4k - given that TV manufacturers have already said that 4k pricing will be a hell of a lot more reasonable by 2014, its not unrealistic to expect that over the next couple of years we'll see it adopted a lot more widely.

So, come 2014 lets hypothetically say 4k tv's are at a semi-reasonable price, why the hell would someone want to have an Apple TV with cut-down games they can get on their phone, when they can get a real console, with real online multiplayer gaming with beefy games.

Games like LA Noire for example take up 16GB Space minimum. Distributing games like that over an AppStore is just not feasible.

There's too many things that Apple would have to overcome. The filesizes (and no, dumbing down the games is not the right way to go, and people wouldn't accept that).

Realistically the only way Apple could do it is with technology such as onlive.
don't expect 4K TV's to sell in volume until they are in the $1000 price range. maybe $2000.

only a few techno fiends even care about 4k at this point. my next TV is going to be a plain 1080p model, maybe with an ethernet port. i might buy 4k in 10 years or so
alent1234 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:59 PM   #82
rmwebs
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwm2 View Post
I've been a console gamer all of my life. I've owned every console and handheld since the Atari 2600. Remember the virtual boy? Game gear? Turbo Express? Turbo Grafix 16? Neo Geo AES? Sega Saturn? So i'm well aware of what consoles are, in fact it kind of ties into my day job (signature). I'm well aware of where the console market is heading and what will happen next. I'm also aware that someone as hardcore as myself now prefers to play games on his iPad vs the xbox 360, ps3 and nintendo wii which are collecting dust. My daughters have a nintendo wii in their bedroom (it never gets played), they also own several nintendo ds handhelds and a psp(those don't get played either). Do you know what i bought my oldest daughter for christmas? An iPad mini, my youngest daughter still plays her iPod touch and borrows her mom's iPad as she is still too young to have one of her own. If someone like me can change their spots then it means the market is pivoting.
There's your problem. You're the wrong market.

Teenage boy, sitting in his room, playing COD online with his headset and his friends. You honestly think he's going to ever do that on a tablet?

Last edited by rmwebs; Feb 13, 2013 at 02:09 PM.
rmwebs is offline   8 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:00 PM   #83
Skoopman
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Romania
Quote:
Originally Posted by roxxette View Post
Destroy casual gaming maybe, i can totally see eating nintendos market but doubt it will take any share from the xbox and playstation market.
Because so many casual gamer actually play on the Wii and don't just buy it to look at it? Please, Nintendo has always been a one man army. Without their first party titles, they would not be where they are today. Even if Apple would make gaming on the ATV possible, it would not interfere as much with the console market as many people think it would. The console market has been doomed, well since forever. It's still there, maybe not as strong as it used to be, but that's mainly the fault of the economy and lazy devs. Let's make a port of a port of a remake of whatever. On iOS however you see fresh games, not all with new content though, as many are just rip offs of other games, but most of them are new.
__________________
Macbook Air 13" | 1.8GHz | 4GB RAM | 128GB SSD
Time Capsule 2TB
Apple TV 3
Skoopman is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:00 PM   #84
guzhogi
macrumors 68020
 
guzhogi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Wherever my feet take me…
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagamer34 View Post
No developer/publisher in their right mind would invest the $100+ million it takes to make Grand Theft Auto V on a game that runs cell phone hardware. Period.

Next silly rumor.
You do realize Grand Theft Auto is available as an iPad app? https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/gran...479662730?mt=8

I've never played it on any platform so I can't compare the quality, nor do I know how much it cost to develop, but it does exist on iPads.
guzhogi is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:00 PM   #85
Patriot24
macrumors 68000
 
Patriot24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmwebs View Post
Which would be an instant fail given that you need to be able to feel what buttons you're pressing.
Call it whatever you want, but Apple isn't likely to endorse any 3rd party products. They will either make their own or provide bluetooth support (or both), but don't plan on seeing any Logitech controllers with Apple logos on the box.

That was the point I was trying to make.
__________________
iphone + air + ipad + time capsule + classic + shuffle + tv
Patriot24 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:00 PM   #86
rmwebs
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by alent1234 View Post
don't expect 4K TV's to sell in volume until they are in the $1000 price range. maybe $2000.

only a few techno fiends even care about 4k at this point. my next TV is going to be a plain 1080p model, maybe with an ethernet port. i might buy 4k in 10 years or so
10 years is a bit much, given that 10 years ago most of us were on 32" CRT TV's. Maybe 5 years is a bit more realistic.
rmwebs is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:01 PM   #87
Mike Valmike
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Chandler, Arizona
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremiah256 View Post
Sony, especially, could strike back by using their media empire to hurt iTunes by removing their music and movies.
Why would they do this, when Apple would be, in one fell swoop, handing Sony (and M$) one of their most cherished objectives on a silver platter? By which I refer to the elimination of the used video game market. Far more than half of all physical console media sales are used, so even if prices dropped by 50% (which they wouldn't), Sony and M$ and the rest would see revenue go up sharply. Especially considering how the demand curve works. I forget where I read it, and the recent articles on the topic are spamming over my Google-fu, but apparently an X360 game bought new will be resold something like 6.4 times before scratches and disinterest attrition it away.

Hardcore gamers will pay more for a console with more guts, and it's an entire separate market from where Apple is targeting. This has always been true. In 1983, hardcorers discarded Atari 2600 shovelware and spent billions of quarters in arcades. In 1993, they let the plebes have their Genesis/SNES while they bought a Neo Geo. In 2003, they modded and tweaked their Xboxen and bought immersive deluxe controllers and accessories for costs approaching that of another console (Steel Battalion, anyone?). In 2013, they'll buy the X720/PS4 and play Hero's Duty 7 with glee while one hundred million proletarians have a blast playing Sugar Rush 2 or Rock Band 5 on the ATV4.
Mike Valmike is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:01 PM   #88
jwm2
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmwebs View Post
Look, we get it - you like to argue and dont like Microsoft

I'm looking at the long run here, not the TODAY market. The new consoles will be out by xmas and will likely support 4k - given that TV manufacturers have already said that 4k pricing will be a hell of a lot more reasonable by 2014, its not unrealistic to expect that over the next couple of years we'll see it adopted a lot more widely.

So, come 2014 lets hypothetically say 4k tv's are at a semi-reasonable price, why the hell would someone want to have an Apple TV with cut-down games they can get on their phone, when they can get a real console, with real online multiplayer gaming with beefy games.

Games like LA Noire for example take up 16GB Space minimum. Distributing games like that over an AppStore is just not feasible.

There's too many things that Apple would have to overcome. The filesizes (and no, dumbing down the games is not the right way to go, and people wouldn't accept that).

Realistically the only way Apple could do it is with technology such as onlive.
Theres a very good reason why someone would want an apple tv. Its called cutting the cord and is something my family did several years ago. We used to spend over $1400/yr on satellite tv. Now we spend $7.99 for netflix + $7.99 for hulu plus. My apple tv is on all the time, so i don't have to change inputs or do anything else if games were available for it. Not to mention the fact that games could be ported to the apple tv very easily so the existing game catalog could be ported in a very short amount of time with minimal cost to do so.
__________________
Handmade Natural Skin Care Products for Geeks (owned and operated by my wife)
Xbox 360 Controller Mods (owned and operated since 2001)
jwm2 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:02 PM   #89
Unicron100
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRumors View Post
Maybe a "console-capable" Apple-TV isn't $99, maybe it's $199, and add another $79 for a controller.
The controller would be your $300 iPad mini, $500 iPad, or $600 iPhone and could be a lot like the Wii U. The handheld iDevices could (?) offload some of the processing too.
Unicron100 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:02 PM   #90
rmwebs
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by guzhogi View Post
You do realize Grand Theft Auto is available as an iPad app? https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/gran...479662730?mt=8

I've never played it on any platform so I can't compare the quality, nor do I know how much it cost to develop, but it does exist on iPads.
Graphics aren't any better than the PC version. The controls on the iPad version are horrible though.
rmwebs is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:03 PM   #91
deconstruct60
macrumors 603
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwm2 View Post
Why can't they add a usb port to allow for external hdds?
AppleTV has a USB port

"... Micro-USB (for service and support) ... "
http://www.apple.com/appletv/specs.html

And Apple isn't keen to letting folks use it as general usage storage. If they did anything it would be like a Tivo storage drive thing where the only supported option was sold pre-configured.

I don't think Apple is looking for more support calls because someones Banana Jr 3000 HDD is acting quirky with the Apple TV.

If anything AppleTV is tracking in the other direction. Into the TV itself not adding external HDDs to folks media cabinets. The iterative refinements made to AppleTV have been to make it smaller.

Relatively small, load-on-demand cloud stored games would work. AppleTV might cache the latest small game so the start up time was slower. But not the multi-GB stuff of console games leverage.
deconstruct60 is online now   2 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:03 PM   #92
Lark.Landon
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: So Cal
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmanist1000 View Post
To perfect it. They wouldn't release something this big if they didn't have it perfect.
...lol...
Lark.Landon is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:04 PM   #93
rmwebs
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwm2 View Post
Theres a very good reason why someone would want an apple tv. Its called cutting the cord and is something my family did several years ago. We used to spend over $1400/yr on satellite tv. Now we spend $7.99 for netflix + $7.99 for hulu plus. My apple tv is on all the time, so i don't have to change inputs or do anything else if games were available for it. Not to mention the fact that games could be ported to the apple tv very easily so the existing game catalog could be ported in a very short amount of time with minimal cost to do so.
And what 'cord' needs cutting with a console? Sure the Xbox has Xbox Gold membership, but the PS3 has no subscription.

Also, what difference is there if you buy a game from an AppStore or a shop? You're still paying for the game, you're not getting any sort of contractual discount like you do with Netflix vs Satellite.

Hardly a comparison really is it.
rmwebs is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:04 PM   #94
jwm2
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by guzhogi View Post
You do realize Grand Theft Auto is available as an iPad app? https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/gran...479662730?mt=8

I've never played it on any platform so I can't compare the quality, nor do I know how much it cost to develop, but it does exist on iPads.
Its an older version of the game but its still a valid point. As technology gets better, faster and smaller we are able to do things with tiny devices what used to take giant consoles to pull off. The days of 100 million dollar games are behind us. A few will come out from time to time but the money is quickly shifting into the mobile marketplace. I'm just shocked that a company with dreams of combining an ipod with a phone is the one who is leading the charge.
__________________
Handmade Natural Skin Care Products for Geeks (owned and operated by my wife)
Xbox 360 Controller Mods (owned and operated since 2001)
jwm2 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:05 PM   #95
mchart
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhand1001 View Post
Not with the current graphics. Arm graphics are still much slower. You have to realize that the xbox and other gaming consoles have 10-20 times the power envelope to use. They aren't using 1-2 watt chips they are using 30-60+ watt chips that are much faster.

Heres a powervr sgx 545 (apple tv has a 543) vs an intel hd4000 which itself is much slower than the xbox class graphics.
Image
I made an account just to reply to this message. It is wrong on so many levels, and demonstrates an inept understanding of what this benchmark is representing.

I will be very brief. Most will understand what i'm getting at promptly.

You've basically shown us a benchmark demonstrating CPU capability. Not GPU prowess. The benchmark would be relevant had it shown competing systems both with an I5 and then the iGPU vs. the PowerVR GPU.

The simple fact is that a game like World of Warcraft is more heavily impacted by CPU prowess. The inept Atom which is an ultra low power x86 implementation is what is holding those two powerVR systems back.

In the case of Apple (A5/A5X) they are capable of pushing current-gen console quality graphics at this point in time. Not many games use this power though. The soon to be released Real Racing 3 is about the only game to make use of this increased compute power.

I won't bother going into further detail why this is possible. It doesn't require much thought. The point is that the series of benchmarks you linked to does not support your opinion.
mchart is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:05 PM   #96
rmwebs
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwm2 View Post
Why can't they add a usb port to allow for external hdds?
Apple wouldn't do this. For Apple its a case of buy one with X storage for this price, or X storage for this price. I highly doubt their upgrade solution for a console would be 'just plug in a USB hard drive'.
rmwebs is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:06 PM   #97
Aeolius
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmanist1000 View Post
To perfect it. They wouldn't release something this big if they didn't have it perfect.
Aeolius is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:07 PM   #98
rmwebs
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by mchart View Post
In the case of Apple (A5/A5X) they are capable of pushing current-gen console quality graphics at this point in time. Not many games use this power though. The soon to be released Real Racing 3 is about the only game to make use of this increased compute power.
If that were the case, why are we not seeing all console games being ported in full to iOS? Instead we see cut down, poor gfx games.
rmwebs is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:07 PM   #99
TheHateMachine
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Houston, TX
Quote:
Originally Posted by alent1234 View Post
most console games you are some forgettable hero that has to do something that has been done in almost every other console game in history and again, you are the only one that can do it

you are greatly over exaggerating their quality
Most mobile games you are some forgettable hero in a tower defense, tap platformer or physics game that has been done in almost every other mobile game in history

You are greatly over exaggerating their quality

I can over generalize too!
__________________
I own stuff that is cool and fits my needs.
TheHateMachine is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:08 PM   #100
alent1234
macrumors 603
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmwebs View Post
10 years is a bit much, given that 10 years ago most of us were on 32" CRT TV's. Maybe 5 years is a bit more realistic.
10 years ago going from SD to HD was a big deal. same with CRT. a 40" CRT TV was in the 200 pound range and you needed 40" of depth. a 40" LCD takes less space.

other than quality what does 4K give you? why would anyone upgrade?
alent1234 is offline   0 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > MacRumors.com News Discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Google Working on Game Console to Compete with Future Apple Gaming Threat MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 246 Jul 18, 2013 06:00 AM
Could Disney be working with Apple on a new Gaming Console Called Toy Box? gto55 Apple, Industry and Internet Discussion 3 Jan 6, 2013 03:14 PM
Do you think apple will ever launch their own games console to compete with the xbox Nerdy Keith Mac and PC Games 20 Jun 24, 2012 01:03 PM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:07 PM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC