Xbox Founding Engineer Says Apple TV Could Destroy Console Gaming with Third-Party Apps

diamond.g · Feb 14, 2013

tbrinkma said:
The XBox 360 uses standard DVDs for its games. By comparison the TV has roughly twice the storage space of that DVD built in, and has a standard USB micro port on the back which could (if Apple decided to enable it) be used to attach any standard USB drive for game storage. The XBox 360 has the same amount of RAM as the 3rd generation TV, and a CPU/GPU which isn't all that much more powerful than the CPU/GPU used in the 4th generation iPad (which supports a *much* higher resolution than the XBox 360).

It's not quite so clear cut that an updated TV would be all that 'compromised' for gaming, even if the current generation might only measure up to last generation's consoles.

What about compared to the PS3?

bulldoze · Feb 14, 2013

Scanned through most of this thread now and I have seen a lot of talk about GPU specs and things like that.

Not many posts on cloud gaming though - surely Apple will do all this in the cloud, like Onlive but done right?

Exhale · Feb 14, 2013

bulldoze said:
Scanned through most of this thread now and I have seen a lot of talk about GPU specs and things like that.

Not many posts on cloud gaming though - surely Apple will do all this in the cloud, like Onlive but done right?

They could, but OnLives' biggest issue was that games are EXTREMELY latency sensitive. And without a strong connection, which most don't have -the experience is badly compromised.

Input Lag is the #1 enemy in every single game. It can make anything incredibly frustrating to play, vastly more so than very poor framerates.

cirus · Feb 14, 2013

Exhale said:
And it generally will be in the more demanding conditions. 25-man raids are notorious for not giving a damn about resolution or graphics cards.

You are forgetting that the atom cpu is about 1/4-1/5 as powerful as a ULV i5.

The fps difference is more than an order of magnitude, and the i5 ULV will get higher fps with a better gpu (we are still gpu limited). So doubling the gpu power of the Atom in the samsung tv tab will ~ double the fps. Wow is very cpu heavy at higher settings (ultra shadows especially) with little cpu load on the lowest settings.

The cpu is NOT the part that is holding back the platform. A game such as GW2 is very very cpu heavy and I would agree here but the atom is not holding back the performance here. Look at atom netbook wow results.

The ASUS 1215N with ION2 uses a D525 atom processor at 1.8 ghz. This is slower than the atom z2760 in the samsung. And its much clearly better than the z2760 indicating the cpu is not the bottleneck (its more than 3 times as fast so the cpu is nowhere near bottlenecking the gpu). I will note that those are different (Cataclysm vs MOP) but I doubt that fps would drop by 70%. Toms also takes the benchmarks at the same spot.
The GMA 4500 netbook uses the core 2 duo SU3700 which is faster than the atom. The first netbook is the same notebook running integrated graphics vs the ION 2, clearly a large increase there.

G51989 · Feb 14, 2013

bulldoze said:
Scanned through most of this thread now and I have seen a lot of talk about GPU specs and things like that.

Not many posts on cloud gaming though - surely Apple will do all this in the cloud, like Onlive but done right?

First off, cloud gaming is crap, connections are to slow to provide any decent games.

And GPU specs matter, big time. An ipad would melt trying to run HALO 4.

See, I think the people who want the bad 5 dollar games are the people who are not gamers, they want simple games that are impossible to lose to waste 15 minutes waiting for a doctors exam or whatever, or on a bus.

Nintendo won't die, their 1st party titles are so popular, people are willing to buy their system JUST for those games, Apple will NEVER match Mario or Zelda, they are gaming icons.

An Apple TV also won't kill XBOX or PlayStation, the vast majority of people who buys those systems want

1: Good graphics
2: long single player
3: Huge worlds
4: world class sound and worlds to explore
5: amazing multiplayer
6: real controller
7: libarty of real games.

Sorry to bust some peopels bubble, but most gamers are not into 5 dollar simple games.

Imhotep397 · Feb 15, 2013

Unlikely...the people that generally play casual games exclusively won't see a lot of value in playing casual games at home instead of on the go. Adults that play games at home don't want a "Dumbed Down" piece of hardware and AppleTV would have to fight through Nintendo to win the kids over and they've never been very internally focused on putting a lot of effort into being successful with games.

cmichaelb · Feb 15, 2013

Anyone who has connected their iPhone via HMDI..

To their LCD TV knows how close Apple is to OWNING console gaming. If you could access those same games via Apple TV and just use your iPhone or iPad as a controller, game over for MS and Sony.

Nintendo would still have a chance with their unique properties and portable game systems.

damir00 · Feb 15, 2013

G51989 said:
An Apple TV also won't kill XBOX or PlayStation, the vast majority of people who buys those systems want...

That's all true. However it is also true that the ATV is one determined generational step away from being able to run Battlefield or Far Cry at 1080p60.

If Apple wants this, it's there for the taking. *Somebody* is going to walk through that door first...

roxxette · Feb 15, 2013

damir00 said:
That's all true. However it is also true that the ATV is one determined generational step away from being able to run Battlefield or Far Cry at 1080p60.

If Apple wants this, it's there for the taking. *Somebody* is going to walk through that door first...

Dont matter if 1 step or 2

if nobody will be interested in port for that plataform.

G51989 · Feb 15, 2013

damir00 said:
That's all true. However it is also true that the ATV is one determined generational step away from being able to run Battlefield or Far Cry at 1080p60.

If Apple wants this, it's there for the taking. *Somebody* is going to walk through that door first...

Well, the XBOX and PS3 are based on hardware developed over 10 years ago, and the ATV is still pretty far behind them, not even a controller. And no, touch based controls on your phone or pad are crap.

Yes, maybe in 2-4 years you'll ATVs doing Far Cry at 1080P at 30FPS, while the XBOX and PS4 will be playing games 10 times more complex at 60FPS at 4K.

The kind of gamers that buy Xboxs or playstations or hell even high end PCs, are not interested in the simple games in Apples ecosystem. Developers who make these games know this, they'll keep pumping money into the Playstation and XBOX market, because hardcore gamers have MUCH higher standards than iOS gamers or casual gamers, and when they can charge 60 bucks a game and make huge margins on each title, they'll keep doing it. A gamer wont buy an ATV.

Now, for casual gamers sure, but that wont kill off PC, or Console gaming at all.

LagunaSol · Feb 15, 2013

G51989 said:
and the ATV is still pretty far behind them, not even a controller. And no, touch based controls on your phone or pad are crap.

Yes, I'm sure it's beyond Apple's capabilities to come up with a multi-button Bluetooth controller. That's space-age technology right there.

akdj · Feb 15, 2013

Kobayagi said:
Ya, right. Angry Birds will replace games like Battlefield. Haha

Battlefield is available on iOS...if one is interested

TheHateMachine said:
Yea, and what most of these people who spout this fail to realise is that all the graphically intense games mostly seem to be games on rails. If they allow more freedom then certain cuts have to be made... like lower res textures, laughable low polygon counts or just plain running the game at a lower resolution and "upscaling it".

Besides graphics aren't everything. Add in the fact that the gameplay is laughable simple in these mobile games, the simple story and forgettable lore and it really showcases the limited budget of these dev games. The only mobile game I can think of off the top of my head that actually made me prioritize playing it over my PC or console was Civilzation Revolutions. Even then the short comings of that bastardized version of Civ led me to shelve it after a month.

This is how it starts. These were phones first (iOS). Now they're iPads. We have the 'hobby' for Apple...the ATV. I'm not sure you've been paying enough attention if all you're seeing are 'laughably simple' games. It took my son and I an hour just to get through the tutorial on Baldur's Gate. At least 6-10 hours of gameplay to finish each Dungeon Hunter. Asphalt 7 and the Need for Speed titles are amazing...and the Gameloft and EA titles are phenomenal! I've never finished the front 9 at Pebble Beach (on my iPad) in five minutes. Nor have I noticed sub par graphics in comparison with my Xbox or PS3

Lightey said:
Please go learn about gaming. No one wants Apple monopolizing yet another market and dictating what games can and cannot release on it.

You're another iSheep.
Parents are stupid.
Real gamers know better.

When you grow up, you'll learn to appreciate your parents. They certainly aren't stupid...especially if they're providing you with the gear in your signature. Have more respect...and when you grow up, you'll learn about technology...its inevitable advancement, Moore's Law, and furthermore...you'll come to understand that ANYTHING is actually possible

Bantz said:
Hardly, I cant see the Apple TV running anything like Halo 4 for a very long time. Hell it wont even have enough storage for such games.

Microsoft sells a 4GB Xbox. ATV has no need to do anything other than playback video at this point in time. It doesn't need local storage or a significant GPU. On the flip side....Modern combat, BF, Baldur's Gate, Air supremacy, et al...examples of iOS titles in three years that have far exceeded my expectations for 'mobile gaming'....but not yours?

Bubba Satori said:
Why should games cost no more than $20?
Should phones cost no more than $100?
What if the best games cost $30 each to make?
Who will fund game development if these publishers are cut out?

I'm not understanding your point. You are aware the opportunity afforded thousands of excellent, bright, and brilliant developers by the iOS SDK, right? Many have become rich...hundreds, if not thousands are now making a full time living...and all because of the low overhead involved with iOS development

1000 said:
This, like many of the tales coming from so-called industry experts is absolute rubbish. iPad/iPhone and potentially Apple TV "games" are nothing more than a enjoyable distraction. Nothing comes close to the wonderful and complex games of the current generation of consoles. Hell, nothing in "app land" comes close to even the last generation of consoles, I don't even want to think how stupid this opinion is with mind to the next-gen consoles.

I an constantly annoyed by these types of airy-fairy reports.

1000

It would be nice if MR mandated age policy in the forums. I think so many of these opinions are obviously 'age' based...and from youngsters without wisdom, experience and/or any idea of how technologies change over time...and relatively short periods of time.

netdudeuk said:
So you don't have an Xbox 360 then ?

I do...and I understood exactly what his/her point was...what didn't you get?

likemyorbs said:
Yes because since Apple is doing well right now there is no need for them to do anything new.
Think before you type. And they do need a boost, they're in a bit of a creative slump right now in case you haven't noticed.

Other than the goofy stock price that was due for a correction, not sure where you're going with this....in the past year, they've introduced retina to the masses with the iPad and rMBP...re engineered an excellent iPad mini, released the fastest selling, most successful smart phone in history, redesigned an incredible new iMac...I'm not sure ANY other company in the world isn't lusting to be in Apple's 'creative slump' right now.

G51989 said:
....

And GPU specs matter, big time. An ipad would melt trying to run HALO 4.

See, I think the people who want the bad 5 dollar games are the people who are not gamers, they want simple games that are impossible to lose to waste 15 minutes waiting for a doctors exam or whatever, or on a bus.

Nintendo won't die, their 1st party titles are so popular, people are willing to buy their system JUST for those games, Apple will NEVER match Mario or Zelda, they are gaming icons.

An Apple TV also won't kill XBOX or PlayStation, the vast majority of people who buys those systems want

1: Good graphics
2: long single player
3: Huge worlds
4: world class sound and worlds to explore
5: amazing multiplayer
6: real controller
7: libarty of real games.

Sorry to bust some peopels bubble, but most gamers are not into 5 dollar simple games.

You're definitely underestimating the power of Apple's SOC and graphic power. Sure, the theoretical maximum CPU power in an Xbox is up to 250 teraflops. However, as measured many times...real performance is close to parity with the A6x @ 77 tflops compared with 75 on the Xbox

The iPad is driving more than twice the pixels than the Xbox is delivering.

Graphics are 'half' of everything...IMO, sound is the other important half

Indeed...there is a time and place for casual games...as there are for more cerebral/time involved gaming. See my earlier replies. Even with the 2GB limit, developers are managing to squeeze some very compelling options in that limited space.

Nintendo would be smart to license their software to iOS. Their hardware division is on its last leg. As far as Apple not hurting Xbox or PS3--I remember the same naysayers with Atari, Coleco, Sega, et al.

Real controller....Apple hasn't needed one yet. When it's time, it will arrive

Developers follow the money. Rest assured, if the pendulum swings to an ATV type system, so will developer (read 'the money') and software companies.

You just can't argue with the success of iOS gaming, independent developer interest, the ease of the SDK and XCode from Apple and the very low price of development price admission. Wasn't there an article about a sophomore in high school last summer that sold nearly 200,000 copies of his app in a week at 99 cents? $140,000, his take is easily enough to pay for his college!

Sorry to be long winded...but there just seems to be such a disparaging generation gap on the board. I'm 42...I was born the year before the 8008, the first 8-bit microprocessor was. I've seen so many fantastic pieces of hardware come and go. Software...the same. On this board there are plenty of folks older than I...but these days, and probably due to the popularity of the iOS devices...plenty, if not MORE folks younger than I. If you're in your early twenties, you don't remember times before the original Xbox or the Playstation. Those of us older than 30--we do. Xbox and Playstation killed the arcades. We are in the midst of another transition for 'gaming' these days too. It'll be gradual. It might not be the ATV. It might not be Apple. But I don't believe the console...in today's form and figure will be around much longer.

As far as $50million + development for blockbuster titles in software...if Temple Run can be downloaded 20million times in 30 days....or whatever the figure was...at $.99...there absolutely IS a market in mobile for these sizes of investment. But if the payers are moving...so will the money, the developers, and ultimately the software. Which in turn dooms the hardware

J

G51989 · Feb 15, 2013

LagunaSol said:
Yes, I'm sure it's beyond Apple's capabilities to come up with a multi-button Bluetooth controller. That's space-age technology right there.

Im sure they can do it, but I'm sure they won't do it. They'll tell you to buy an iPod as a real controller

G51989 · Feb 15, 2013

akdj said:
Battlefield is available on iOS...if one is interested

I have it, its crap.

Microsoft sells a 4GB Xbox. ATV has no need to do anything other than playback video at this point in time. It doesn't need local storage or a significant GPU. On the flip side....Modern combat, BF, Baldur's Gate, Air supremacy, et al...examples of iOS titles in three years that have far exceeded my expectations for 'mobile gaming'....but not yours?

They dont meet mine for real gaming, no access to a real control, small worlds, and a limited play experience.

You're definitely underestimating the power of Apple's SOC and graphic power. Sure, the theoretical maximum CPU power in an Xbox is up to 250 teraflops. However, as measured many times...real performance is close to parity with the A6x @ 77 tflops compared with 75 on the Xbox

Despite that, XBOX 360 games blow iOS games out of the water, in world size, graphics, sound, features, experience, and control. And this is on hardware that started being developed over 10 years ago, just wait till the new monsters come out.

Let me know when ARM SOCs that perform like a mid range desktop PC from 2002 can do that.

High end PCs have a party piece as well, love to see an ATV handle that.

The iPad is driving more than twice the pixels than the Xbox is delivering.

yay! Yet the gameplay, still inferior.

Graphics are 'half' of everything...IMO, sound is the other important half

Yes, Sound is important, 360 games also do great here.

Indeed...there is a time and place for casual games...as there are for more cerebral/time involved gaming. See my earlier replies. Even with the 2GB limit, developers are managing to squeeze some very compelling options in that limited space.

Yes there are, and I think that place is iOS/Android/Nintendo products. Not on a real console.

Nintendo would be smart to license their software to iOS. Their hardware division is on its last leg. As far as Apple not hurting Xbox or PS3--I remember the same naysayers with Atari, Coleco, Sega, et al.

Nintendo won't do that, they are hardly on their last legs, yes the WiiU was not a huge sucess, but the next console will be, console sales are down because everyone knows new ones are right around the corner. Nintendo is anything but on its last legs, why should they throw away 80% of their profits to come to apple?

Real controller....Apple hasn't needed one yet. When it's time, it will arrive

I wish they would, touch control is crap for games

Developers follow the money. Rest assured, if the pendulum swings to an ATV type system, so will developer (read 'the money') and software companies.

Of course, but the " hardcore " gaming market is still a massive multi billion dollar industry, those gamers won't move to an ATV system.

You just can't argue with the success of iOS gaming, independent developer interest, the ease of the SDK and XCode from Apple and the very low price of development price admission. Wasn't there an article about a sophomore in high school last summer that sold nearly 200,000 copies of his app in a week at 99 cents? $140,000, his take is easily enough to pay for his college!

Im not arguing with its sucess, of course it is. But for the gamers that buy PS3s and 360s, they mostly consider iOS to be time killer games, not real games. You would be hard pressed to make them move to simple games, I would never get up HALO 4 for ANY iOS game.

As far as $50million + development for blockbuster titles in software...if Temple Run can be downloaded 20million times in 30 days....or whatever the figure was...at $.99...there absolutely IS a market in mobile for these sizes of investment. But if the payers are moving...so will the money, the developers, and ultimately the software. Which in turn dooms the hardware

Of course there is a market for iOS gaming. HOWEVER what you seem to be failing to realize, is that the more hardcore gamers, who want good graphics, good controllers, good online services, and powerful hardware, the PS3/360/High End PC gamers are not interested in iOS games at all, nor are they interested in cheap games, they've already put time and money into their PCs/libarys of console/PC games, they're willing to pay the 60 bucks a game. Developers wont leave them.

Its just like people saying PC gaming is " dead ", its still almost the largest gaming market in the world, and its been " dead " for 20 years.

Dont get me wrong, I have an iPhone 4S as a work phone, a Microsoft Surface RT( free from a promo for our company, win! ), and an S3, I play mobile games all the time, they're fun for awhile, and sure for 3 bucks why not? But they just cant compete with real consoles and real computers.

Renzatic · Feb 15, 2013

LagunaSol said:
Yes, I'm sure it's beyond Apple's capabilities to come up with a multi-button Bluetooth controller. That's space-age technology right there.

I don't remember anyone saying they couldn't do it. The question is, will they do it?

MyMacintosh · Feb 16, 2013

jwm2 said:
I've been a console gamer all of my life. I've owned every console and handheld since the Atari 2600. Remember the virtual boy? Game gear? Turbo Express? Turbo Grafix 16? Neo Geo AES? Sega Saturn? So i'm well aware of what consoles are, in fact it kind of ties into my day job (signature). I'm well aware of where the console market is heading and what will happen next. I'm also aware that someone as hardcore as myself now prefers to play games on his iPad vs the xbox 360, ps3 and nintendo wii which are collecting dust. My daughters have a nintendo wii in their bedroom (it never gets played), they also own several nintendo ds handhelds and a psp(those don't get played either). Do you know what i bought my oldest daughter for christmas? An iPad mini, my youngest daughter still plays her iPod touch and borrows her mom's iPad as she is still too young to have one of her own. If someone like me can change their spots then it means the market is pivoting.

No. Realistically you're probably just getting old, and your daughters more than likely aren't hardcore gamers. hardcore gamers aren't going to be switching to some apple replacement sub console anytime soon. We need to be realistic here. Also you alone are a very small sample size.

alent1234 · Feb 16, 2013

G51989 said:
I have it, its crap.

They dont meet mine for real gaming, no access to a real control, small worlds, and a limited play experience.

Despite that, XBOX 360 games blow iOS games out of the water, in world size, graphics, sound, features, experience, and control. And this is on hardware that started being developed over 10 years ago, just wait till the new monsters come out.

Image

Image

Let me know when ARM SOCs that perform like a mid range desktop PC from 2002 can do that.

Image
High end PCs have a party piece as well, love to see an ATV handle that.

yay! Yet the gameplay, still inferior.

Yes, Sound is important, 360 games also do great here.

Yes there are, and I think that place is iOS/Android/Nintendo products. Not on a real console.

Nintendo won't do that, they are hardly on their last legs, yes the WiiU was not a huge sucess, but the next console will be, console sales are down because everyone knows new ones are right around the corner. Nintendo is anything but on its last legs, why should they throw away 80% of their profits to come to apple?

I wish they would, touch control is crap for games

Of course, but the " hardcore " gaming market is still a massive multi billion dollar industry, those gamers won't move to an ATV system.

Im not arguing with its sucess, of course it is. But for the gamers that buy PS3s and 360s, they mostly consider iOS to be time killer games, not real games. You would be hard pressed to make them move to simple games, I would never get up HALO 4 for ANY iOS game.

Of course there is a market for iOS gaming. HOWEVER what you seem to be failing to realize, is that the more hardcore gamers, who want good graphics, good controllers, good online services, and powerful hardware, the PS3/360/High End PC gamers are not interested in iOS games at all, nor are they interested in cheap games, they've already put time and money into their PCs/libarys of console/PC games, they're willing to pay the 60 bucks a game. Developers wont leave them.

Its just like people saying PC gaming is " dead ", its still almost the largest gaming market in the world, and its been " dead " for 20 years.

Dont get me wrong, I have an iPhone 4S as a work phone, a Microsoft Surface RT( free from a promo for our company, win! ), and an S3, I play mobile games all the time, they're fun for awhile, and sure for 3 bucks why not? But they just cant compete with real consoles and real computers.

these aren't x-box screenshots you're posting
these are PC quality ones

most of the walk throughs are made on the PC version of the game and you can tell the x-box quality is way worse

stevensr123 · Feb 16, 2013

Hmm considering macs are basically **** for "propa games" I have a hard time believes something like an Apple TV will eat up the console market, both in terms of developer support, and performance.

Maybe if apple created a true console platform, that had all the access to the iTunes/iOS ecosystem, as well as true platform gaming developer support, and the same performance as the ps4/the next box, than maybe they will gain something.

As it stands though, do developers actually want yet another platform to port games for? I imagine its pretty to to develop for 3 systems (pc, Xbox and playstation) how much time and money would it cost them to develop for yet another platform? Would the gains be more than the cost and time? Etc

And cloud gaming won't work at all, every man and his dog would need a super high speed connection, because even if there is just a minute amount of lag, that small lag means everything in terms of experience.

If anything, the likes of iPads, android tablets will be the death of hand held gaming. Mainly because you can do a lot more on tablets than you can do with the likes of a ds and vita, and the technology in terms of graphics etc is catching up quickly.

Pokemon on an ipad or nexus? Nintendo would makes hundreds of millions I reckon.

----------

alent1234 said:
these aren't x-box screenshots you're posting
these are PC quality ones

most of the walk throughs are made on the PC version of the game and you can tell the x-box quality is way worse

Good job the new Xbox/playstation will probably be able to produce though times of graphics, either way current generation consoles would still wipe the floor off on anything a ipad/mobile chip system could produce.

We are still many many many years away from those types of graphics and game experience.

Not only that but what about game storage? Which people seem to forget.

G51989 · Feb 16, 2013

alent1234 said:
these aren't x-box screenshots you're posting
these are PC quality ones

most of the walk throughs are made on the PC version of the game and you can tell the x-box quality is way worse

Thats really funny, because the 1st screenshot is actually from an XBOX 360,

the SECOND shot is from HALO 4, which is only for 360. It CANNOT be found on a PC.

The third is from Crysis 3, which I said is from a a high end pC.

Wrong wrong wrong wrong! your wrong!

maxosx · Feb 16, 2013

Apples obvious popularity is not as universal as the hard core followers like to believe. Therefore Apple has wisely taken a wait & see approach. While some buyers do not object to the high cost of living in the Apple ecosystem. Others see no point in doing so.

Bill Killer · Feb 16, 2013

Does anybody actually trust Apple to make a video game controller that isn't overly simplified and based on 1-3 buttons with touch sensitivity? I don't.

davcolley · Feb 17, 2013

Cheap Parts

Looks like a bunch of left over PC parts.

StoneJack · Feb 17, 2013

G51989 said:
Thats really funny, because the 1st screenshot is actually from an XBOX 360,

the SECOND shot is from HALO 4, which is only for 360. It CANNOT be found on a PC.

The third is from Crysis 3, which I said is from a a high end pC.

Wrong wrong wrong wrong! your wrong!

why do you think that apple tv hardware cannot progress beyond PS3 and Xbox360? its only on third or something iteration, while PS and Xbox existed for more than 10 years. Besides, ARM evolution is much faster than Xbox or PS evolution which are updated like in 8 years, whlie ARM is moving ahead at much faster speed. Also, NAND is much faster than usual hard drives in Xbox. Apple Gamecenter is a ready infrastructure for multiplayer games and its free as well. You mentioned only FPS games which probably are best for PC (dying breed) or for Xboxes (paid subscription); there can be a lot of alternatives for FPS games. Nintendo games are typically done on slower hardware and the secret is not hardware but software, something which can be done on iOS as well. Mobile gaming on iOS already almost killed mobile PS (is there a mobile Xbox?), and Nintendo mobile is only kept alive by Pokemon series.

G51989 · Feb 17, 2013

StoneJack said:
why do you think that apple tv hardware cannot progress beyond PS3 and Xbox360? .

It will hit the same performance, years from now. The consoles will be another 15 years ahead.

ts only on third or something iteration, while PS and Xbox existed for more than 10 years.

Its a cellphone in a box, the consoles are much more powerful.

Besides, ARM evolution is much faster than Xbox or PS evolution which are updated like in 8 years, whlie ARM is moving ahead at much faster speed.

ARM is still almost 10 years behind 10 year old consoles. The next generation consoles will be blowing away anything Apple puts into an ATV. Even the current consoles, with almost 10 year old hardware, blow away the ATV on a factor of 10. Consoles don't care about how much power they use. An Xbox 360 based on 10 year old hardware still trumps the ATV by a massive margin.

lso, NAND is much faster than usual hard drives in Xbox.

And VERY expensive, the 120 dollars you pay for an XBOX Hard drive nets you 320gigs, while an ATV has nothing like that. Load times on 360s are close to instant already.

Apple Gamecenter is a ready infrastructure for multiplayer games and its free as well.

I have it, XBOX Live blows it away.

ou mentioned only FPS games which probably are best for PC (dying breed) or for Xboxes (paid subscription); there can be a lot of alternatives for FPS games

PC Gaming is not dying, people have been saying that since the N64 came out, it never happened. The PC gaming market is still a huge tens of billions of dollars a year industry, its not going away. And you don't understand, Hardcore PC and and Consoles gamers won't go to ATV or iOS for gaming, and theres millions of them, which is why the Console and PC gaming market is massive.

intendo games are typically done on slower hardware and the secret is not hardware but software, something which can be done on iOS as well.

Nintendo games are also done on their own hardware, which will be very profitable, they won't go to iOS. And nintendo Wii still blows away iOS devices in performance.

Mobile gaming on iOS already almost killed mobile PS (is there a mobile Xbox?), and Nintendo mobile is only kept alive by Pokemon series.

Mobile playstation is pretty big outside the US, there will be a mobile XBOX Tablet, and the Nintendo mobile market is still huge, outside of Pokemon even.

yes casual gamers are already on iOS, hardcore gamers wont touch it.

Wanted797 · Feb 18, 2013

This should stand in Xbox's favor if they were smart. An online store and a device designed to work via downloaded games (With a very large HDD) would be an excellent option. It would rule out the idea they seem to like of stamping out preowned games.

This also could work for Apple in the same way. However I do think they need to offer top level games not just basic iOS. It would be a new way of gaming.

Xbox Founding Engineer Says Apple TV Could Destroy Console Gaming with Third-Party Apps

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