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Old Feb 16, 2013, 03:29 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by runebinder View Post
If owning a computer is vital to business needs, then just having one seems short sited. What if one of the inner components went and there's no power, won't boot etc?

Seems sensible to have a back up, doesn't have to be something expensive, just something that'll do the job.
sorry, maybe i didn't make myself clear, i have a full office setup for 6 people so the business wont stop running.

if my laptop broke i would just go and buy a new one same day. everything is backed up to a cloud service.

my issue is that apple are selling defective laptops and expect me to sit around for 7 days without one.

like i said earlier i will probably go and buy another(non apple) laptop and just give this mbp to my wife once apple are finished repairing it.
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Old Feb 16, 2013, 04:08 AM   #27
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sorry, maybe i didn't make myself clear, i have a full office setup for 6 people so the business wont stop running.

if my laptop broke i would just go and buy a new one same day. everything is backed up to a cloud service.

my issue is that apple are selling defective laptops and expect me to sit around for 7 days without one.

like i said earlier i will probably go and buy another(non apple) laptop and just give this mbp to my wife once apple are finished repairing it.
Did you buy the laptop from Apple directly?

You seem to have a very childish attitude towards this whole affair. What do you expect Apple to do - drop everything and repair YOUR machine? What makes you more important than the other customers in the queue waiting for their repair to be completed?

Look at it another way. Say you had your MacBook in for repair, had been waiting a while, and someone at the bar when you came to collect it said "so glad I kicked off and got my machine bumped to the top of the queue".

MacBooks don't come with a service level agreement, and things break. For businesses, they offer a premium service which includes a loaner machine, but you have to buy the service (because it costs money to have these loaner machines, etc). Why should the cost of YOUR requirements be pushed onto everyone else who are happy to wait their turn.
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Old Feb 16, 2013, 04:34 AM   #28
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One area where Apple have really struggled is breaking into the enterprise space, the only success of note is the pervasiveness of employees insisting they are able to use their own consumer devices in a corporate environment. (BYOD). This phenomena has meant that CIO's and IT managers have in many cases felt forced into accommodating Apple devices within their environments which has given rise to the plethora of software products that allow these devices to be locked down or separated from the core infrastructure.

I work for a large european infrastructure services provider and Apple have been courting us (and others) for some time now in an effort to make inroads into enterprise business.

The problem is that they have not yet been able to apply the same level of innovation from their product business to their services business. This in itself would be fine if 3rd party service providers (like us) were able to wrap services around their products but unfortunately the terms and conditions (and commercials) don't allow this to happen in the same way as other technologies.

They are getting better and are taking the enterprise opportunity much more seriously of late and I'm sure they will crack it sooner or later.

As a business user I don't necessarily expect priority over other customers, far from it, I'm no more or less important than anyone else. However, I would gladly pay for predictability and being told my screen replacement could be 'up to 10 days' was difficult to work with. In this case, a 3rd party was able to uplift that service and give me the predictability I needed with a repair window for a small fee and ultimately I am now a happy user again......

I think Apple need to re-think their service model and think carefully about how they could better engage their third party service providers in providing premium services for those who are willing to pay.
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Old Feb 16, 2013, 04:43 AM   #29
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sorry, maybe i didn't make myself clear, i have a full office setup for 6 people so the business wont stop running.

if my laptop broke i would just go and buy a new one same day. everything is backed up to a cloud service.

my issue is that apple are selling defective laptops and expect me to sit around for 7 days without one.

like i said earlier i will probably go and buy another(non apple) laptop and just give this mbp to my wife once apple are finished repairing it.
Yes it has a defect and Apple are offering to remedy that. That's standard warranty procedure that will also be followed by any other laptop manufacturer as well after the initial sales period (don't know where you are based but in Europe it's the first 14 days).

If you buy a HP/Sony/Dell etc and it develops a defect they would offer exactly the same route which would be a repair, and that may be more than 7 days. I'm sorry dude but you sound like a child throwing your toys out of the pram because you cannot get your own way.
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Old Feb 16, 2013, 04:45 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by sensorian View Post
One area where Apple have really struggled is breaking into the enterprise space, the only success of note is the pervasiveness of employees insisting they are able to use their own consumer devices in a corporate environment. (BYOD). This phenomena has meant that CIO's and IT managers have in many cases felt forced into accommodating Apple devices within their environments which has given rise to the plethora of software products that allow these devices to be locked down or separated from the core infrastructure.

I work for a large european infrastructure services provider and Apple have been courting us (and others) for some time now in an effort to make inroads into enterprise business.

The problem is that they have not yet been able to apply the same level of innovation from their product business to their services business. This in itself would be fine if 3rd party service providers (like us) were able to wrap services around their products but unfortunately the terms and conditions (and commercials) don't allow this to happen in the same way as other technologies.

They are getting better and are taking the enterprise opportunity much more seriously of late and I'm sure they will crack it sooner or later.

As a business user I don't necessarily expect priority over other customers, far from it, I'm no more or less important than anyone else. However, I would gladly pay for predictability and being told my screen replacement could be 'up to 10 days' was difficult to work with. In this case, a 3rd party was able to uplift that service and give me the predictability I needed with a repair window for a small fee and ultimately I am now a happy user again......

I think Apple need to re-think their service model and think carefully about how they could better engage their third party service providers in providing premium services for those who are willing to pay.
That's what Joint Venture is for.

Joint venture repairs are given priority, you have unlimited access to the genius bar even if there's no slots available, and you get a loaner machine while yours is in for repair.
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Old Feb 16, 2013, 05:16 AM   #31
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Did you buy the laptop from Apple directly?

You seem to have a very childish attitude towards this whole affair. What do you expect Apple to do - drop everything and repair YOUR machine? What makes you more important than the other customers in the queue waiting for their repair to be completed?

Look at it another way. Say you had your MacBook in for repair, had been waiting a while, and someone at the bar when you came to collect it said "so glad I kicked off and got my machine bumped to the top of the queue".

MacBooks don't come with a service level agreement, and things break. For businesses, they offer a premium service which includes a loaner machine, but you have to buy the service (because it costs money to have these loaner machines, etc). Why should the cost of YOUR requirements be pushed onto everyone else who are happy to wait their turn.
there is no need to use insults, that says more about you than me and i haven't kicked off at anyone. i didn't ask to be sold a defective machine. i don't think anyone should wait for a repair. you have paid for a computer and it is unreasonable to be asked to hand it in for a week without any means of carrying on.

i have had a similar issue with another companies laptop and it was just replaced no questions asked.

the comments i am getting on this thread only confirm my thoughts that apple computers are not suitable for the business environment because of the risk and time involved in getting defective equipment put right.

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Originally Posted by runebinder View Post
Yes it has a defect and Apple are offering to remedy that. That's standard warranty procedure that will also be followed by any other laptop manufacturer as well after the initial sales period (don't know where you are based but in Europe it's the first 14 days).

If you buy a HP/Sony/Dell etc and it develops a defect they would offer exactly the same route which would be a repair, and that may be more than 7 days. I'm sorry dude but you sound like a child throwing your toys out of the pram because you cannot get your own way.
that is not my experience with dell computers.

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That's what Joint Venture is for.

Joint venture repairs are given priority, you have unlimited access to the genius bar even if there's no slots available, and you get a loaner machine while yours is in for repair.
you do realise that most people have better things to do than cart all their equipment into a apple store?
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Old Feb 16, 2013, 05:30 AM   #32
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you do realise that most people have better things to do than cart all their equipment into a apple store?
You do realise that Apple couldn't predict your machine was going to be faulty, right? All of Apple's service policies are available for you to view before buying. You made the choice.

Every time someone offers you an avenue, you shoot it down. I guess that's because you just want a new machine. Which isn't going to happen. So you're either going to have to live with IR, or swallow some pride and either take it to an Apple store, or send it off to them.
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Old Feb 16, 2013, 05:49 AM   #33
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that is not my experience with dell computers
Really? I guarantee if you buy a Dell laptop and something goes faulty after 6 months and have the standard manufacturers warranty, they will offer a repair not a replacement. If they replaced every unit that went faulty under warranty they would go bankrupt.
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Old Feb 16, 2013, 05:51 AM   #34
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You do realise that Apple couldn't predict your machine was going to be faulty, right? All of Apple's service policies are available for you to view before buying. You made the choice.

Every time someone offers you an avenue, you shoot it down. I guess that's because you just want a new machine. Which isn't going to happen. So you're either going to have to live with IR, or swallow some pride and either take it to an Apple store, or send it off to them.
i made the choice to buy a new machine with the reasonable expectation that it would be free from defects and fit for purpose.

the only avenue open is to hand it in to get repaired in 7 days.

i find this a big inconvenience and i can imagine that other would feel the same.

what would you do in the meantime brian?

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Really? I guarantee if you buy a Dell laptop and something goes faulty after 6 months and have the standard manufacturers warranty, they will offer a repair not a replacement. If they replaced every unit that went faulty under warranty they would go bankrupt.
i am not bothered by the repair, just the time it takes to get that carried out.
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Old Feb 16, 2013, 06:12 AM   #35
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i made the choice to buy a new machine with the reasonable expectation that it would be free from defects and fit for purpose.

the only avenue open is to hand it in to get repaired in 7 days.

i find this a big inconvenience and i can imagine that other would feel the same.

what would you do in the meantime brian?
Use one of the other 6 machines in your office?

Sign up to the business level service and use their loaner machine?
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Old Feb 16, 2013, 06:28 AM   #36
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Use one of the other 6 machines in your office?

Sign up to the business level service and use their loaner machine?
are you seriously suggesting that i share a computer with one of my staff?

i am no longer going to be able to take you seriously and assume you are just trolling.

edit: actually, as bizarre as this sounds, you may have an idea there, one of them is going skiing for 2 weeks so i could get it repaired then.
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Old Feb 16, 2013, 07:09 AM   #37
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i am not bothered by the repair, just the time it takes to get that carried out.
7 Days is pretty decent, don't know about the rest of the world but in the UK 28 days is considered to be acceptable under the terms of the Sales of Goods act which states a point of sales can offer a repair within a reasonable amount of time.

Standard warranty and Applecare are domestic policies not business based, so unless you paid for a business policy then Apple are under no obligation to take that under account for your circumstances.
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Old Feb 16, 2013, 07:15 AM   #38
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7 Days is pretty decent, don't know about the rest of the world but in the UK 28 days is considered to be acceptable under the terms of the Sales of Goods act which states a point of sales can offer a repair within a reasonable amount of time.

Standard warranty and Applecare are domestic policies not business based, so unless you paid for a business policy then Apple are under no obligation to take that under account for your circumstances.
absolutely agree. apple are under no obligation. just as i am under no obligation to continue to buy their products, but considering they only have a small percentage of the uk market you would think they would try harder.
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Old Feb 16, 2013, 07:25 AM   #39
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absolutely agree. apple are under no obligation. just as i am under no obligation to continue to buy their products, but considering they only have a small percentage of the uk market you would think they would try harder.
I've had computer repairs take 3-4 weeks in the past, 7 days is a good timeframe for replacing a laptop screen if they don't have the screen in stock at the store. I don't understand what else you think they should do for you.

I work in the electronics after-sales support side in the UK and the only company I can think of that offers a repair time better than 7 days is Sony which is 3-5 days if memory serves. KRCS who are the local Apple authorised resellers and repairers in Nottingham just say that if the repair goes over 21 days they will give you a 10 store voucher!
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Old Feb 16, 2013, 11:22 AM   #40
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I've had computer repairs take 3-4 weeks in the past, 7 days is a good timeframe for replacing a laptop screen if they don't have the screen in stock at the store. I don't understand what else you think they should do for you.

I work in the electronics after-sales support side in the UK and the only company I can think of that offers a repair time better than 7 days is Sony which is 3-5 days if memory serves. KRCS who are the local Apple authorised resellers and repairers in Nottingham just say that if the repair goes over 21 days they will give you a 10 store voucher!
ok, lets put it another way. if i buy a new mercedes and there is a defect with the models and they have to replace a part. they don't expect you to be without a car for a week as that would be extremely inconvenient.

its the same thing. its apples choice to try to occupy the top end of the market, if they want to give crappy service then they shouldn't charge at the price point they do.
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Old Feb 16, 2013, 03:56 PM   #41
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just thought i would post about my experience with this issue. bought my mbp last september and noticed IR last month. the laptop has a LG screen.

so after some emails and letters to apple i just got off the telephone with a customer services rep who said that he was as senior as it gets and not to bother calling anymore.

apple will not be replacing the laptop.

i am actually really shocked as i thought apple stood by their products.
I would not think Apple would replace the laptop. They will replace the screen. I've talked to Apple about this and replacing the LG screen is pretty simple to get authorization.

I'm not sure why you thought you should get a new laptop though...

-P
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Old Feb 16, 2013, 04:19 PM   #42
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I would not think Apple would replace the laptop. They will replace the screen. I've talked to Apple about this and replacing the LG screen is pretty simple to get authorization.

I'm not sure why you thought you should get a new laptop though...

-P
Correct. I took mine in and got the screen replaced in less than 3 hours. Same computer.
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Old Feb 16, 2013, 04:52 PM   #43
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are you seriously suggesting that i share a computer with one of my staff?

i am no longer going to be able to take you seriously and assume you are just trolling.

edit: actually, as bizarre as this sounds, you may have an idea there, one of them is going skiing for 2 weeks so i could get it repaired then.
So first you say I'm trolling, and then you say I have a point.

Whatever, I'm done here.
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Old Feb 16, 2013, 07:40 PM   #44
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sure, but how do i run my business for 7 working days without a laptop?

i dont disagree with you about things breaking, but this is a serious manufacturing issue that has effected alot of people.
oh and i have never had anything go wrong with any other mac i have owned, including the colour classic which i sold to a collector!

----------



i use mine for work as well, and thats a big part of the problem. i have had dells go wrong in my office before and they just send out a new one no questions asked.

i rather naively assumed that apples customer service would be better!

its no big deal at the end of the day, i can always buy another laptop whilst this one gets repaired and then just give the mbp to my wife to use.
It's DEFINITELY a good time to invest in another laptop if this small challenge pains you so much. Apple is incredible with post sale support. There isn't anything wrong with your computer other than the display. There's no reason for them to automatically ship you a brand new machine. As others have so eloquently pointed out dozens of times now...they are ready, willing and able to work with you and fix your problem. If you weren't rude to them on the phone (I'm assuming you were as you said he told you NOT to call back?)...they will usually ship the part to your nearest service center...who can then call you and let you know when it's available, when they can fit the repair into their schedule, and when you should bring it in for the most efficient turnaround. If you were a dick to them (on phone or in person), they may be significantly less likely to offer you any help above and beyond the normal repair.

I, too, run a business. I, too rely on my computers. I subscribe to JointVenture as others have suggested. It's $499 a year I think (my wife handles payables)...& the option is significantly better than ANYTHING Dell offers. I work for the largest radio conglomerate in the world. We've been in 'bed' with Dell for 15 years. You're right...they break and they get replaced. Just NOT by Dell. By our IT department. Dell, for a significant fee, will provide post purchase support...but it's no different than Apple. They absolutely, positively do NOT just replace a laptop automatically if something goes wrong after thirty days. We buy thousands of Dells a year. I honestly know what I'm talking about. I'm not sure what the situation was that Dell did so for you, but I'd true...believe it--you were a unique situation.

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Originally Posted by sensorian View Post
One area where Apple have really struggled is breaking into the enterprise space....

The problem is that... that service and give me the predictability I needed with a repair window for a small fee and ultimately I am now a happy user again......

I think Apple need to re-think their service model and think carefully about how they could better engage their third party service providers in providing premium services for those who are willing to pay.
As others have said...and I believe it IS worth mentioning again. Joint. Venture! The option is there. Working at Clear Channel Communications, we are seeing the same thing. It started with integrating the iPhone into the Exchange service...to employees now bringing their own MBP or iPad to work. IT has been busy integrating Apple into the system as much as possible, but with Novell's relationship with MS, the integration has little to do with warranty service....and everything to do with security.

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are you seriously suggesting that i share a computer with one of my staff?

i am no longer going to be able to take you seriously and assume you are just trolling.
You, sir are an interesting cat. Why would he or she be 'trolling' by suggesting the absolute base line of common sense? Indeed, sharing a computer during the week it takes for yours to be repaired sounds like a very interesting idea, no?

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ok, lets put it another way. if i buy a new mercedes and there is a defect with the models and they have to replace a part. they don't expect you to be without a car for a week as that would be extremely inconvenient.

its the same thing. its apples choice to try to occupy the top end of the market, if they want to give crappy service then they shouldn't charge at the price point they do.
They don't 'give crappy service'. They've offered to fix your computer. They do represent the top end of the market with the rMBP...but you sir sound like my 8 year old son...four years ago throwing a fit in the middle of a grocery store because I wouldn't buy him captain crunch! Unreal.

BTW...I speak from experience. I had my rMBP LG screen replaced two weeks ago. After five months of ownership I, too, had the IR pop up. Repair took four full days. I was given a laptop loaner (didn't turn it on as my backup solution in place already did its job)...& received my MBP back with a Samsung display that works perfectly. I'm not sure how that in any way, shape or form equals poor service.

With all these replies, you may want to check YOUR self. No other company, including Mercedes, is going to give you a brand new product 5 months post purchase because of a fixable problem with a single component in the system. No. One!
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 03:31 AM   #45
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So first you say I'm trolling, and then you say I have a point.

Whatever, I'm done here.
fine brian, i just laugh at your suggestion that i should have a spare computer for when my apple has a defect.

----------

for heavens sake.

i dont want a replacement laptop. i just want to have my broken one fixed without having to wait for seven days, i wasn't rude to the apple care chap he just said, as soon as he picked up the phone, that he is the highest point of escalation and that what he could offer would be it. this was the 7 day repair, no mention of getting the parts in or calling me to drop it off.

thanks for all the helpful replies telling me to have a spare or share a computer with a staff member, that will definitely work well at a client meeting.

the comments have helped in one fashion because at least i know that this is normal for apple, so cheers guys.

i say again that if you buy a new computer i shouldn't have to take out extra insurance like joint venture because a years uninterrupted service should be expected.

----------

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Originally Posted by anzio View Post
Correct. I took mine in and got the screen replaced in less than 3 hours. Same computer.
wish that was available where i am.

----------

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Originally Posted by akdj View Post
It's DEFINITELY a good time to invest in another laptop if this small challenge pains you so much. Apple is incredible with post sale support. There isn't anything wrong with your computer other than the display. There's no reason for them to automatically ship you a brand new machine. As others have so eloquently pointed out dozens of times now...they are ready, willing and able to work with you and fix your problem. If you weren't rude to them on the phone (I'm assuming you were as you said he told you NOT to call back?)...they will usually ship the part to your nearest service center...who can then call you and let you know when it's available, when they can fit the repair into their schedule, and when you should bring it in for the most efficient turnaround. If you were a dick to them (on phone or in person), they may be significantly less likely to offer you any help above and beyond the normal repair.

I, too, run a business. I, too rely on my computers. I subscribe to JointVenture as others have suggested. It's $499 a year I think (my wife handles payables)...& the option is significantly better than ANYTHING Dell offers. I work for the largest radio conglomerate in the world. We've been in 'bed' with Dell for 15 years. You're right...they break and they get replaced. Just NOT by Dell. By our IT department. Dell, for a significant fee, will provide post purchase support...but it's no different than Apple. They absolutely, positively do NOT just replace a laptop automatically if something goes wrong after thirty days. We buy thousands of Dells a year. I honestly know what I'm talking about. I'm not sure what the situation was that Dell did so for you, but I'd true...believe it--you were a unique situation.



As others have said...and I believe it IS worth mentioning again. Joint. Venture! The option is there. Working at Clear Channel Communications, we are seeing the same thing. It started with integrating the iPhone into the Exchange service...to employees now bringing their own MBP or iPad to work. IT has been busy integrating Apple into the system as much as possible, but with Novell's relationship with MS, the integration has little to do with warranty service....and everything to do with security.



You, sir are an interesting cat. Why would he or she be 'trolling' by suggesting the absolute base line of common sense? Indeed, sharing a computer during the week it takes for yours to be repaired sounds like a very interesting idea, no?



They don't 'give crappy service'. They've offered to fix your computer. They do represent the top end of the market with the rMBP...but you sir sound like my 8 year old son...four years ago throwing a fit in the middle of a grocery store because I wouldn't buy him captain crunch! Unreal.

BTW...I speak from experience. I had my rMBP LG screen replaced two weeks ago. After five months of ownership I, too, had the IR pop up. Repair took four full days. I was given a laptop loaner (didn't turn it on as my backup solution in place already did its job)...& received my MBP back with a Samsung display that works perfectly. I'm not sure how that in any way, shape or form equals poor service.

With all these replies, you may want to check YOUR self. No other company, including Mercedes, is going to give you a brand new product 5 months post purchase because of a fixable problem with a single component in the system. No. One!
i just want it repaired without hassle.
you got offered a loaner that hasnt been offered to me.
so other apple stores can get it carried out in a day, the nearest one to me said 7 days.
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 05:04 AM   #46
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i just want it repaired without hassle.
you got offered a loaner that hasnt been offered to me.
so other apple stores can get it carried out in a day, the nearest one to me said 7 days.
The loaner is part of Joint Venture, which you have to pay for.

If you want business level services, you've gotta pay for them.
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 05:07 AM   #47
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Really? I guarantee if you buy a Dell laptop and something goes faulty after 6 months and have the standard manufacturers warranty, they will offer a repair not a replacement. If they replaced every unit that went faulty under warranty they would go bankrupt.
True, but you can pay for extra warranty. I had flickering on my Dell monitor after four and a half years, rang them and there was a new one delivered the following morning (to rural New Zealand) with a courier prepaid label to send the old one back... can't argue with that. I'm not sure but I didn't see Apple offering this service even at extra cost...
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Old Mar 11, 2013, 09:25 AM   #48
artschool
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Join Date: Apr 2011
so, i called the apple store today to try to book my machine in to get the repair carried out. i have bought a dell laptop to use whilst the MBP retina is getting fixed( i can always let one of my employees have this after).

so i phone up the store and ask if they have the part in. (they have already seen the machine previously and i have a genius bar work authorisation form in front of me for the screen issue.)

"sorry, we cant order the part until we read the serial number off the machine."

"you need to bring the machine in, we will order the part"

"then when the part arrives we will phone you and you can bring your laptop back into the store"

comedy......so to get one repair i have to drive 4 times to an apple store.

Last edited by artschool; Mar 11, 2013 at 09:37 AM.
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Old Mar 11, 2013, 09:42 AM   #49
Jinzen
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by artschool View Post
so, i called the apple store today to try to book my machine in to get the repair carried out. i have bought a dell laptop to use whilst the MBP retina is getting fixed( i can always let one of my employees have this after).

so i phone up the store and ask if they have the part in. (they have already seen the machine previously and i have a genius bar work authorisation form in front of me for the screen issue.)

"sorry, we cant order the part until we read the serial number off the machine."

"you need to bring the machine in, we will order the part"

"then when the part arrives we will phone you and you can bring your laptop back into the store"

comedy......so to get one repair i have to drive 4 times to an apple store.
You're a pretty poor businessman....

Call AppleCare -> Get Tier 2 or above -> Get part ordered to Apple Store -> Go in to Genius Bar and get part swapped out in 45 mins.

Yawn
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Old Mar 11, 2013, 09:50 AM   #50
artschool
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Originally Posted by Jinzen View Post
You're a pretty poor businessman....

Call AppleCare -> Get Tier 2 or above -> Get part ordered to Apple Store -> Go in to Genius Bar and get part swapped out in 45 mins.

Yawn
you sound like a pleasant individual.

tried and said no, but thanks for your advice! best applecare offered was to post it in to them but i don't want to wait/risk it. UK may be different to where you are.
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