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Old Feb 11, 2013, 02:38 AM   #526
linuxcooldude
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Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
Again - the past doesn't equal the future. No matter how you try an force it. You can't predict this any more than you can predict how much snow fall I'm going to have in my back yard by 5pm. Oh you can try. But ultimately - it's just conjecture.
It not the past, but its still happening in the present. We still have full Windows 7 tablets when the Surface Pro came out. Rehash of the same thing. Only Microsoft came out with their own version.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 04:30 AM   #527
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Again - the past doesn't equal the future. No matter how you try an force it. You can't predict this any more than you can predict how much snow fall I'm going to have in my back yard by 5pm. Oh you can try. But ultimately - it's just conjecture.
Bad analogy. Weather forecast predicted so many inches of snow this weekend in our region, and they were right within an inch or two. No, you can't always assume that past patterns would be repeated, but it is equally facetious to say that the past has no relevance to understanding what could be possible in the future.

My first reaction to the Surface announcement was that Microsoft might pull off a repeat of how they overtook Apple's GUI with Windows. Then, as more and more details became known, I saw more and more holes in the details of their execution. The pattern is looking more like what happened with Zune vs iPod, rather than what happened with Windows vs Mac.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 05:49 AM   #528
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I think MS did it because nobody's sure who's gonna win the ARM vs Intel war. They now got a piece of both pies.
Based on sales of RT, I'd say that MS surely didn't got piece of ARM sales.
As for Intel, their tablets always sucked - either its power hungry desktop chip or pathetically slow Atom
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 07:04 AM   #529
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Originally Posted by Night Spring View Post
Bad analogy. Weather forecast predicted so many inches of snow this weekend in our region, and they were right within an inch or two. No, you can't always assume that past patterns would be repeated, but it is equally facetious to say that the past has no relevance to understanding what could be possible in the future.

My first reaction to the Surface announcement was that Microsoft might pull off a repeat of how they overtook Apple's GUI with Windows. Then, as more and more details became known, I saw more and more holes in the details of their execution. The pattern is looking more like what happened with Zune vs iPod, rather than what happened with Windows vs Mac.
Actually a fine analogy given that they forecasters are more often wrong than right. Not to mention - no one knows what elevation my house is. But that's besides the point.

As for the Zune - that had more to do with poor marketing and ecosystem more than the actual product.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 07:35 AM   #530
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Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
Actually a fine analogy given that they forecasters are more often wrong than right. Not to mention - no one knows what elevation my house is. But that's besides the point.

As for the Zune - that had more to do with poor marketing and ecosystem more than the actual product.
I think they were late to the game with having to compete with an already established market. I think Microsoft plays it safe, but when they don't they are way off the mark.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 09:30 AM   #531
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Originally Posted by Xiroteus View Post
I have yet to use my laptop on my lap, I could be the odd one out.
I think so. 60% ish of my computer usage is on my lap.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 10:51 AM   #532
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Although the 64gb iPad still has more actual storage than the 128gb surface
How do you cram 90GB of 'user space' into 64GB of total space for the surface? Anyway, not that important.

A working surface might be attractive for the crowd that wants both laptop and tablet functionality. If it would be 'good enough' for laptop and tablet use, while costing less than laptop + tablet. I have no idea how big that crowd is are might be, but seen like that it might be why Microsoft thinks it can be a success: The laptop users generally also want/like a tablet.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 11:23 AM   #533
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Originally Posted by gctwnl View Post
How do you cram 90GB of 'user space' into 64GB of total space for the surface? Anyway, not that important.
With a microSD card slot and a USB 3 port, its really not that big a deal if you have to have more space. For most situations, you can get by with just a class 10 SDHC card (and as the tech improves, so does the "extra storage",) but if you wanted to you could always attach an external USB 3 drive and go to town with it.

Unlike any iOS product, you don't have any reasonable "space" issue.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 09:44 PM   #534
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Also, about the digitizer, assuming there is a good painting/drawing software on Android (just don't know the platform very well, an Artist on the "move" would probably be better served with a Galaxy Note 10.1 than with the Surface Pro.

On a side note also, considering the already big appeal Apple has in the "artist/design" market, a digitizer on the iPad would be a very smart move for them.
Why Apple doesn't at least make a spinoff product with a real pen and digitzer is beyond me. They don't have to make it standard, make it an option for an extra $100 for all I care, if that's what it cost to license the tech from Wacom. With all the awesome software out there on the App store, it would be incredible.

I actually bought a Surface Pro. The stylus was okay, but it uses Microsoft's API, not Wacom drivers, so it is still limited at this point. And of course there is the fact it's a 'real' PC so it isn't as rugged and portable as an iPad.

What I really want is the stylus on an iPad. Now that Jobs is gone I hope they consider it. Seems so foolish to ignore the potential.
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 01:16 AM   #535
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Originally Posted by Tulani View Post
Are there anti viruses recommended for the Pro?
Hey Tulani, since the spec sheet on Microsoft's website for the Surface pro suggests (and I quote), "Runs current Windows 7 desktop applications and integrates with your existing enterprise management infrastructure. Use the programs and the apps available in the Windows Store.", I guess all Antivirus applications should work. You can even try Microsoft Defender that is available in Windows store.
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 01:43 AM   #536
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You can even try Microsoft Defender that is available in Windows store.
The Pro is running a full copy of Windows 8, which comes standard with Defender. You don't have to download anything.

And I recommend most people use it. Defender runs quietly in the background, barely takes up any resources, and does its job.
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 07:15 AM   #537
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Has Microsoft released any Surface Pro sales figures? The buzz over the weekend was how it was sold out everywhere (128GB model at least). But I've yet to come across any sales figures. I have to believe then that it sold out because of limited supply. Comments on Engadget, c|net, the Verge, etc. indicate stores like Best Buy and Staples has limited stock (in some cases just a couple devices per store).
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 01:24 AM   #538
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Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
Has Microsoft released any Surface Pro sales figures? The buzz over the weekend was how it was sold out everywhere (128GB model at least). But I've yet to come across any sales figures. I have to believe then that it sold out because of limited supply. Comments on Engadget, c|net, the Verge, etc. indicate stores like Best Buy and Staples has limited stock (in some cases just a couple devices per store).
I doubt you'll find any sales reports so soon. Its still been less than a week that the Surface Pro was launched. Unlike Apple, that sells millions of units on launch day/first week, other companies have limited stock and their figures are not something to be boastful about.

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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
The Pro is running a full copy of Windows 8, which comes standard with Defender. You don't have to download anything.

And I recommend most people use it. Defender runs quietly in the background, barely takes up any resources, and does its job.
Great to know that the Defender comes bundled with the OS.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 05:57 PM   #539
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I'm bumping this since a few of us have gone off topic in the Surface iFixit thread and this is probably a more appropriate thread to discuss it. I was impressed with my limited time playing with the Pro today. I don't know if it's for me or not, but it's a nice piece of hardware. And I think it has that cool factor too. It looks nice sitting there with the colorful Windows 8 interface.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 06:01 PM   #540
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Originally Posted by spyguy10709 View Post
I think so. 60% ish of my computer usage is on my lap.
I don't typically use my laptops on my lap, but being on the road this entire week in LA and staying with friends and family, I ended up using it there most of the time. I didn't have any issues really.

I have quickly gotten used to a hybrid mode of input - combining both the trackpad on the type cover and the touch screen depending on what it is I'm trying to achieve. It has actually become second nature and very fluid, and I find myself frustrated when I sit down at a client's normal laptop (and I don't think they appreciate the smudges I leave as I inadvertently touch their screen expecting something to happen!).
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 10:25 AM   #541
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[QUOTE=linuxcooldude;16825870]Microsoft for years has been behind in music players, mobile phones & tablets. The surface is not really anything new that has already been done before. All it is Microsofts version in the already existing market of full blown OS on a tablet. The Surface Pro will always be for a niche market. The mostly innovative thing I've seen is the keyboard cover which does look interesting.


The Surface RT is turning out to be the one to get. For business use it is an iPad killer.The included FREE office works with all the spread sheets I use so far. (Has filters and merged cells) none of the other office clones for iPad can do this. The RDP which is also included for FREE works great ! The One note app that you can write on and converts to text is great and is also FREE. Its so nice to have a scroll mouse. My iPad will stay home
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 12:15 PM   #542
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The Surface RT is turning out to be the one to get. For business use it is an iPad killer.The included FREE office works with all the spread sheets I use so far. (Has filters and merged cells) none of the other office clones for iPad can do this. The RDP which is also included for FREE works great ! The One note app that you can write on and converts to text is great and is also FREE. Its so nice to have a scroll mouse. My iPad will stay home
Interesting perspective. How are you interacting with the Office app controls -- mostly touch, or mostly trackpad? Do you use a stylus?
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 06:51 PM   #543
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The Surface RT is turning out to be the one to get. For business use it is an iPad killer.
I'm sure we will see increased use in the office space. But a lot more to business then just office documents. To see an increase in business we need to have a lot of third party developers for a variety of different uses such as point of sales, inventory control, ect.
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 07:05 PM   #544
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I'm sure we will see increased use in the office space. But a lot more to business then just office documents. To see an increase in business we need to have a lot of third party developers for a variety of different uses such as point of sales, inventory control, ect.
This is going to be key if the Surface is going to go very far. There isn't much for 3rd party apps for the RT and the aftermarket hasn't embraced it with accessories.
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 07:18 PM   #545
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This is going to be key if the Surface is going to go very far. There isn't much for 3rd party apps for the RT and the aftermarket hasn't embraced it with accessories.
If anything, yes, MS Office on Surface RT will be key. As long as they don't rely on it solely. Being new, I was not expecting much Apps for it yet. If the developers find it compelling enough platform. But I'm wondering just like the Zune, if coming this late into the tablet market will hurt them again. I think good third party apps & accessories will also play a key role in its success.
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 07:32 PM   #546
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Originally Posted by linuxcooldude View Post
If anything, yes, MS Office on Surface RT will be key. As long as they don't rely on it solely. Being new, I was not expecting much Apps for it yet. If the developers find it compelling enough platform. But I'm wondering just like the Zune, if coming this late into the tablet market will hurt them again. I think good third party apps & accessories will also play a key role in its success.
I don't think you can compare the Zune to the two Surfaces. The Zune was a dedicated media player released when dedicated media players were being phased out for more multifunctional devices like the iPod Touch. It was a decent product. Did what it did quite well. But by the time it showed up, it was already yesterdays news.

MS is a little behind with the Surfaces, but they're entering into a market that hasn't even reached it's prime yet. They've still got plenty of chances to get a foothold.
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 07:59 PM   #547
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I don't think you can compare the Zune to the two Surfaces. The Zune was a dedicated media player released when dedicated media players were being phased out for more multifunctional devices like the iPod Touch. It was a decent product. Did what it did quite well. But by the time it showed up, it was already yesterdays news.

MS is a little behind with the Surfaces, but they're entering into a market that hasn't even reached it's prime yet. They've still got plenty of chances to get a foothold.
I'd say they are a bit behind with the RT but they are the only player in the Surface Pro type category. We'll see if it takes off. You have to admit that something like that running an i5 and full operating system is impressive. I'd like to see some aftermarket keyboards, cases and accessories for the Surface lineup. Imagine if we had one quarter the choices that exist for the iPad? I bet someone could come up with something to make it easier for in lap use. And Haswell, ah Haswell...........................
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 11:11 PM   #548
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I'd say they are a bit behind with the RT but they are the only player in the Surface Pro type category. We'll see if it takes off. You have to admit that something like that running an i5 and full operating system is impressive. I'd like to see some aftermarket keyboards, cases and accessories for the Surface lineup. Imagine if we had one quarter the choices that exist for the iPad? I bet someone could come up with something to make it easier for in lap use. And Haswell, ah Haswell...........................
One thing that's cool is there are some extra pins on the Pro that aren't being used by the keyboard covers. Supposedly MS has some accessories in the pipeline - docks or whatever - that use the extra pins.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 12:19 AM   #549
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Interesting perspective. How are you interacting with the Office app controls -- mostly touch, or mostly trackpad? Do you use a stylus?
I use either or both for Office or web browsing, RDP I mostly use the track pad. For One Note a finger works very well; on the iPad I would have to use a stylus.

I wish my iPad had these features. Its nice to be able to switch between laptop(kick stand, keyboard) and tablet mode(fold keyboard behind tablet). You can add a key board to an iPad but without the touch pad its just not right.

The browser works well with the company Agile, JDE, Jira and SharePoint programs.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 03:56 AM   #550
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I'd say they are a bit behind with the RT but they are the only player in the Surface Pro type category. We'll see if it takes off. You have to admit that something like that running an i5 and full operating system is impressive. I'd like to see some aftermarket keyboards, cases and accessories for the Surface lineup. Imagine if we had one quarter the choices that exist for the iPad? I bet someone could come up with something to make it easier for in lap use.
Yeah, it's easy to admit. I have my qualms about it's usefulness as a tablet (for now), but it's the smallest and sleekest ultrabook out by and far.

And accessories? It'd be nice if it got a few specific accessories, but hey, it can use everything a PC can! You've got all kinds of cool stuff to hook up to it!

Quote:
And Haswell, ah Haswell
IF it's true that Haswell gets 70% more battery life out of thinner devices, the Surface 2 is gonna be pretty damn impressive. Hell, just about every x86 tablet will be.
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