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Old Feb 19, 2013, 04:26 PM   #51
cosmicjoke
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Originally Posted by blueroom View Post
I'd rather have a MacBook Air than a Frankenputer that sort of runs OSX.
i'd rather have both... because i can
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 04:40 PM   #52
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It's like a Surface that works!

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Its called Clover... know what you are talking about before posting. Thank you.
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 04:41 PM   #53
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How he got the touch screen working is another question, but by no means is it impossible.
Could be that the system firmware has mouse simulator build in ? At least for single-finger gestures ? Would be nice to see if multi-touch works.
I also would like to see such a device native from and I'm sure they have some in their labs
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 04:47 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by gumblecosby View Post
If a computer is x86 and fairly modern it has a good chance of running OS X. This shouldn't be a surprise. Methods for running OS X have become simpler as time goes on. EFI emulation , DSDT's and decrypters such as fakesmc.kext make it less painful now compared to the Tiger days.
dd if=some.iso of=/dev/diskX and logging in as deadmoo was really a burden. You needed an empty hard drive, 20 minutes of time and a Linux CD.

Really complex, lots of ins and outs.
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 05:22 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Aidan5806 View Post
And the Modbook Pro just lost all of its value, and the surface pro just gained its first reason to be purchased.
Exactly. The best of the two worlds - if the OS X compatibility is 100%, that is.
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 05:24 PM   #56
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 06:20 PM   #57
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dd if=some.iso of=/dev/diskX and logging in as deadmoo was really a burden. You needed an empty hard drive, 20 minutes of time and a Linux CD.

Really complex, lots of ins and outs.
..and a paper clip in your VGA port to get your internal display working whilst keeping your laptop portable. Very straightforward. Things are better now.
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 06:43 PM   #58
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Appears legit, the hardware is certainly supported by Mac OSX.
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 07:30 PM   #59
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With LaunchPad and other iOS stuff in Mac OS X, this wouldn't be that bad. This might be a reason to purchase one..... but not nearly enough to make me consider buying it. Hopefully MS will improve the feature.
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 07:36 PM   #60
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I will have to find a retailer near me and take my live version of OS X on my external and boot into it and see what happens.
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 08:02 PM   #61
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I always thought having osx on an ipad would be amazing but after using at work win8 laptop, going home to my ipad and macbook air is a dream andi can see every single reason why apple doesnt mix the two. You can keep osx in ur surface. I wont go anywhere near one. Thanks.

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Fake
Any substance to back it up or is that the extent of your contribution?[COLOR="#808080"]

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It's like a Surface that works!

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Having a bad day?
If you call a tablet with no wifi "working"
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 10:04 PM   #62
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I´m sorry for that poor Surface, ML will drain all it´s battery...
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 12:04 AM   #63
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Finally we can see how lousy a touch screen OS X is!
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 12:40 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Macrolido View Post
Im sorry for that surface, ML will drain all its battery.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macrolido View Post
I´m sorry for that poor Surface, ML will drain all it´s battery...

Posting it twice didn't make it any funnier.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 02:42 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by aristotle View Post
Are you out of your ever loving mind? That hardware has abysmal battery life and you cannot even use it with the keyboards in your "lap". It is a portable desktop as it requires a desktop in order to operate with a keyboard.
its exactly what i want, the battery life is on par with the Air, and i want to use it as a desktop with keyboard, when not at a desk, i want to use it as a tablet..

Perfect device for me, better than carrying two devices, i could use it in tablet mode on the train to read books, watch movies etc, then, drop on desk, plug in USB mouse, and its ready to go as my PC.

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Originally Posted by milo View Post
If those were things that had actual benefit that outweighed the limitations of the device, you'd be right. And speaking of weight, once you add that keyboard/cover, it even weighs more than the Air.
but still less than carrying the larger screen Air and an iPad which is what i do at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Gemütlichkeit View Post
Nightarchaon, take note. This tablet is a joke and the reviews are there to prove it.
hey, i also liked Betamax, Minidisc and HD-DvD
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 02:45 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by gumblecosby View Post
..and a paper clip in your VGA port to get your internal display working whilst keeping your laptop portable. Very straightforward. Things are better now.
The real problem with the early images of Tiger was that they were so slow that you could calculate the pixels of the spinning beachball faster in your head than they were appearing on the screen.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 02:56 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Nightarchaon View Post
its exactly what i want, the battery life is on par with the Air, and i want to use it as a desktop with keyboard, when not at a desk, i want to use it as a tablet..

Perfect device for me, better than carrying two devices, i could use it in tablet mode on the train to read books, watch movies etc, then, drop on desk, plug in USB mouse, and its ready to go as my PC.

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but still less than carrying the larger screen Air and an iPad which is what i do at the moment.

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hey, i also liked Betamax, Minidisc and HD-DvD
Frankly the 2 experiences are 2 separate devices. Put them together you get well.. a Surface. It is half assed PC and half assed tablet experience in 1 device. According to reviews at least.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 03:28 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Rampage Dev View Post
I will have to find a retailer near me and take my live version of OS X on my external and boot into it and see what happens.
Let us know how you make out.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 03:41 AM   #69
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Um...

Have you folks used tablets... like say an iPad?

This is is the kind of thing I also thought I wanted... before the iPad came along. I was hoping for a OSX tablet too. That, however, WOULD have been an absolute FAIL, had Apple gone that direction. That's why, short of corporate-lemming-types, the Surface Pro will be a fail as well.

Surface Pro is a transition device, at best, if Microsoft really understands where things are headed. Running OSX on it, would be a step backwards from where Apple folks already are. It's designed to bring Windows desktop & laptop users kicking and screaming into the future, as best Microsoft can currently realize it.

The regular Surface is Microsoft's future, along with desktop Windows... IF they understand the future and don't mess up.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 03:41 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Nightarchaon View Post
its exactly what i want, the battery life is on par with the Air, and i want to use it as a desktop with keyboard, when not at a desk, i want to use it as a tablet..

Perfect device for me, better than carrying two devices, i could use it in tablet mode on the train to read books, watch movies etc, then, drop on desk, plug in USB mouse, and its ready to go as my PC.
You must be using some sort of "new" math because less than 4 hours (probably around 3.5 hours running windows 8 and considerably less running a hacked OS X without proper drivers) is a lot less than 5 hours quoted for the 11" macbook air or 7 hours for the 13" macbook air.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightarchaon View Post
hey, i also liked Betamax, Minidisc and HD-DvD
That explains a lot.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 04:00 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Menneisyys2 View Post
1, much higher screen resolution

2, definitely higher-quality screen tech (IPS vs standard LCD - some comparative pics between the iPad4's IPS screen and that of the Pro are at http://www.phonearena.com/reviews/Mi...-iPad-4_id3249 - as one can see, the Pro's screen quality is excellent.)
1. In what universe is 1920 X 1080 a higher resolution than 2048 X 1536? In what world is PPI: 207.82 higher than PPI: 264?

2. I looked at the pictures and the iPad screen had more vivid colours. Are you trying to tell us that LCD is better than IPS panels found in the iPad, the Thunderbolt display, the new iMacs and the retina macbook pros?

How much is Microsoft paying to lie about specs?
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Originally Posted by Menneisyys2 View Post
3, full, no-compromise Windows, as opposed to Apple's dumbing down Boot Camp by, among other things, not allowing NOT to use gfx acceleration to allow for better battery life / cooler operation. (This isn't that big a problem with Airs, which lack a dual-standard setup. Much bigger a problem on MBP's.)
Ok, this proves that you have never used boot camp or you are deliberately trying to mislead people on here.

I have used boot camp to dual boot into windows on my iMac and before that on an early 2006 Macbook pro before I gave it to a relative.

Bootcamp is simply a source of drivers for windows and a partition magic type of partitioning tool for dividing your hard drive to include a windows partition. It is not virtualization or emulation. When you install windows onto that partition, it is not dumbed down. If something is not working, it is because of a lack of drivers. Don't expect windows 8 to work right away but Windows 7 should install just fine and run ok IF you install the drivers Apple provided in the boot camp wizard. You should have saved those drivers to a DVD or USB stick to use after you had installed windows 7.

Liar, liar pants on fire.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 04:11 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aristotle View Post
You must be using some sort of "new" math because less than 4 hours (probably around 3.5 hours running windows 8 and considerably less running a hacked OS X without proper drivers) is a lot less than 5 hours quoted for the 11" macbook air or 7 hours for the 13" macbook air.
The funny thing about that is that if I had to name my top two reasons for switching from my OSX laptop to iPad, they would be 1) Battery life, and 2) Instant on into a OS designed for mobility. The Surface pro, running OSX or Win8 is neither (or at least not any better than the Surface in that regard).


Quote:
Originally Posted by aristotle View Post
In what universe is 1920 X 1080 a higher resolution than 2048 X 1536? In what world is PPI: 207.82 higher than PPI: 264?
And, what was really funny was the talk about gfx acceleration. Aside from being challenged by mathematics and physics, I think this person doesn't have a very good grasp on computer hardware either. Hopefully he/she reads this before running out to buy Maya for their new Surface Pro.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 04:16 AM   #73
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Instant on into a OS designed for mobility
When you flip the screen up on MacBook that is factory-equipped with an SSD - what happens? I might have missed that BIOS screen and copying of the complete RAM from the SSD (which should be completed by the time you've completely flipped open the screen anyways)

It's not like the the Surface Pro does magic, it's just a Windows netbook with a digitizer, a detachable keyboard, an older-gen SSD (which, if you ask me, should've been made user-replaceable if they use mSATA anyways. But to Microsoft a kickstand that resembles a car door seems more valuable than the development of a 'push-in'n'pop-out' or caddy system for mSATA) and EFI.

They should've just developed something akin to OS X fat binaries, released in as ARM only, and tell you that 'If it won't be updated to support ARM, it is so old that the x86 compatibility layer will run it just fine'.

Last edited by Giuly; Feb 20, 2013 at 04:29 AM.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 04:33 AM   #74
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When you flip the screen up on MacBook that is factory-equipped with an SSD - what happens? I might have missed that BIOS screen and copying of the complete RAM from the SSD (which should be completed by the time you've completely flipped open the screen anyways)
Yes, they are quite fast now. I'll grant that. My wife has a Macbook Air. However, designed for mobile (at least tablet/phone-like mobile), it is not. Adding a touch-screen or pen interface won't solve that. For mobile, you need a completely 'other' OS and apps designed for it.

Again, the Surface Pro is a transition device to drag the geeks along to the Surface (the real future for M$, if they have one). I'm not saying the desktop will go away. It won't. But, it's best left to an other OS, designed for it.

Where Microsoft seems to be messing up, might be too tight of integration between them. Apple seems to be taking a better stance... so far anyway (if they don't too horribly butcher OSX, trying to make it iOS-like). Shared data is required, when possible. Shared general concepts are great too. But, UI-wise, much care must be taken, as they are two completely different environments.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 04:42 AM   #75
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And, what was really funny was the talk about gfx acceleration. Aside from being challenged by mathematics and physics, I think this person doesn't have a very good grasp on computer hardware either. Hopefully he/she reads this before running out to buy Maya for their new Surface Pro.
If I were you, I'd do the homework before ridiculing and attacking others. For example, the question of obligatory use (it in no way can be disabled) of discrete gfx acceleration under Boot Camp, which can NOT be disabled, to the "delight" of everyone wanting as good battery life and silent operation as possible.

Some threads you should read (instead of just ridiculing others who know a lot more about OS X than you):

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=585949

http://www.doitscared.com/1466/setup...fat-partition/

an excerpt from the latter article to give you some numbers (bold emphasizing by me):

"I recently got a mid 2012 Macbook Pro 15in laptop. It came with Mac OS X 10.7 Lion which I promptly upgraded to Mac OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion. I then installed Windows 7 Boot Camp on it. I thought I had the perfect setup.

To my dismay, I found that while the Macbook lasted 6 hours or more while running Mac OS X, the Windows 7 lasted at best 3 hours. The reason for the short battery and heat (the laptop got very hot under Windows) was that under Windows, the discrete graphics card was active all the time! The Boot Camp 4.0 drivers for Windows did not support switching graphics between the integrated and discrete video cards, but instead used discrete all the time.
"

Finally, as far as (let me cite you) "being challenged by mathematics and physics, I think this person doesn't have a very good grasp on computer hardware either" is concerned, see my answers below, particularly on the Air's screen resolution, which is, unfortunately, still much-much lower than that of SP, let alone the iPad 3 / 4.



----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by aristotle View Post
1. In what universe is 1920 X 1080 a higher resolution than 2048 X 1536? In what world is PPI: 207.82 higher than PPI: 264?
So, does the Air have a 2048 X 1536 screen? REALLY? I compared the Surface Pro's screen to that of the MB Air as we've talking about them all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aristotle View Post
2. I looked at the pictures and the iPad screen had more vivid colours. Are you trying to tell us that LCD is better than IPS panels found in the iPad, the Thunderbolt display, the new iMacs and the retina macbook pros?
1, The SP has an IPS panel, unlike the Air (or any MBP).

2, Let met cite the article I've linked to:

"Now this is where it gets interesting, since the two have stunning looking displays over most of the crop. Still, the more we look at them, the biggest differentiator is the slightly more detailed and stronger brightness output of the iPad 4’s 9.7-inch 1536 x 2048 IPS-LCD based Retina Display, which produces the higher pixel density if 264 ppi. Honestly, from a far distance away, it’s nearly indistinguishable to meticulously notice its finer details, but nonetheless, it’s evident upon closer inspection. Taking a gander at the Surface Pro’s 10.6-inch 1080 x 1920 IPS LCD display, it’s still attractive on many fronts, but it doesn’t have enough to steer us away from the Retina Display of the iPad 4."

As you can see, not even the article does state the iPad has better colors. And it's pretty futile to compare a non-IPS screen (that of the Air) to an IPS screen (that of the iPad or the SP) - IPS is WAAAAY better in every respect. (Except for the somewhat decreased battery life.)

Quote:
How much is Microsoft paying to lie about specs?
How much Apple is paying you for spreading lies?

Quote:
Ok, this proves that you have never used boot camp or you are deliberately trying to mislead people on here.
I did in my late 2009 17" MBP and suffered a lot from the discrete gfx (overheating, ridiculous battery life etc.). Have tried and read everything to find out how I could switch to integrated gfx. Let me know if you do know how I can switch to using integrated gfx on my MBP - I'll pay you a beer at least.

Quote:
Bootcamp is simply a source of drivers for windows and a partition magic type of partitioning tool for dividing your hard drive to include a windows partition. It is not virtualization or emulation. When you install windows onto that partition, it is not dumbed down. If something is not working, it is because of a lack of drivers. Don't expect windows 8 to work right away but Windows 7 should install just fine and run ok IF you install the drivers Apple provided in the boot camp wizard. You should have saved those drivers to a DVD or USB stick to use after you had installed windows 7.
1. You can't disable discrete graphics under Windows 7 either. (Or under any Windows version.)

2. Apple culd have come up with a way to let users use integrated graphics - after all, Macs are all Apple's products (no need to develop drivers for thousands of different hardware models.) They failed to do that (too).
Quote:
Liar, liar pants on fire.
If I'm a liar, then, you're absolutely incompetent and know absolutely nothing about OS X, spreading lies and are on Apple's payroll.

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