Apple Predicted to Discontinue 17-Inch MacBook Pro

[Renzatic]

Originally Posted by Carouser

The dweebs whining about the Mac Pro aren't 'opinion leaders' and haven't been for years. Their purchase advice is completely insignificant.

The number of people who want to buy a Mac or iOS device AND who care about someone's advice because they use Serious Mac Pro Equipment For Real Work is rapidly approaching zero, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

The funniest thing you see when it comes to the most opinionated hardest of the hardcore dyed in the wool Mac cultist, is the weird cognitive dissonance they display on practically a daily basis.

Apple only makes products for the elite few who can afford it. They wouldn't dare lower themselves by selling crappy products to just anyone simply to attempt expanding their marketshare.

...why would you want a Mac Pro? Only a so called elite few would ever need to use them. Apple caters to everyone these days. If mom 'n pop can't use it, then it doesn't matter to Apple's bottom line.

[KnightWRX]

Originally Posted by Renzatic

The funniest thing you see when it comes to the most opinionated hardest of the hardcore dyed in the wool Mac cultist, is the weird cognitive dissonance they display on practically a daily basis.

You're mistaking the Mac community for a monolithic entity, a single collective that is supposed to share a unified opinion.

But that's far from the truth. Like any community, the Apple users out there are all individuals, with differing needs and wants and thus do not share a single unified opinion or vision.

[Renzatic]

Originally Posted by KnightWRX

You're mistaking the Mac community for a monolithic entity, a single collective that is supposed to share a unified opinion.

But that's far from the truth. Like any community, the Apple users out there are all individuals, with differing needs and wants and thus do not share a single unified opinion or vision.

I'm not talking about Apple fans. I number among the wide collective thereof.

No, what I'm talking about are those select few who seem to defend everything Apple does regardless of if it benefits them or not. If Apple did it or is doing it, then they'll proclaim it as the greatest thing ever.

For an example, see the iPad Mini. Once the stupidest idea in the word. Steve would never let it happen. It's a subpar product that wouldn't be good for anything, and would only eat into their bottom line. 9.7" is the perfect size for a tablet". Contrast to today, where apparently it's the greatest device they've ever made. SOOOOOO much lighter and easier to use than the old iPad.

...I just can't stand that. It's so stupid. It's like some people can't like something unless Apple says they're allowed to like it. It makes no sense to me.

[Benbikeman]

Originally Posted by KnightWRX

Historically. Doesn't mean it holds true anymore.

It is still true for me - I can't tell you how many people ask my advice on computer stuff.

You say my argument is incomplete, yet you've added nothing to it. What part do you feel my argument is missing ?

That bit. If a particular segment of your customer-base is worth 1-2% of your bottom-line, you can afford to alienate them; if that segment is responsible for delivering 10-20% of your other customers, you can't.

Historically, the Macs were the gateway devices, pushing recommendations to users to buy into the Mac product line or to other Apple devices like the iPod. But trends have been reversed now

I totally agree with that, but there are still people who want a laptop, ask their knowledgeable friends and end up buying a Mac as a result.

Reasoning ? I find it is.

Size matters.

[Digital Skunk]

Originally Posted by Carouser

The dweebs whining about the Mac Pro aren't 'opinion leaders' and haven't been for years. Their purchase advice is completely insignificant.

The number of people who want to buy a Mac or iOS device AND who care about someone's advice because they use Serious Mac Pro Equipment For Real Work is rapidly approaching zero, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

While I agree with what you would have meant to say, after I slice through the contention, I would beg to differ about high end users being opinion leaders in terms of hardware and feature sets of certain devices.

Originally Posted by Renzatic

The funniest thing you see when it comes to the most opinionated hardest of the hardcore dyed in the wool Mac cultist, is the weird cognitive dissonance they display on practically a daily basis.

Apple only makes products for the elite few who can afford it. They wouldn't dare lower themselves by selling crappy products to just anyone simply to attempt expanding their marketshare.

...why would you want a Mac Pro? Only a so called elite few would ever need to use them. Apple caters to everyone these days. If mom 'n pop can't use it, then it doesn't matter to Apple's bottom line.

Exactly, they don't seem to see their own contradiction, and contradict they do. I am talking about a contradiction from the same posters by the way.

Originally Posted by Renzatic

I'm not talking about Apple fans. I number among the wide collective thereof.

I totally agree with you and Knight. Those few aren't Apple fans at all. I don't want to consider everything anyone else makes junk, that only puts Apple products at: "Slightly better than junk."

The competition is amazing and fierce and is producing some of the best devices I've ever seen, so whatever Apple does to keep me buying their products is better than "The best devices I've ever seen."

Now, I am not just saying those devices are great, they actually are, and when Apple doesn't do better, I speak up about it. Sadly, killing the 17" no matter how small the margin, is a good business move, but a move I wish they didn't make.

[Carouser]

Originally Posted by Renzatic

No, what I'm talking about are those select few who seem to defend everything Apple does regardless of if it benefits them or not. If Apple did it or is doing it, then they'll proclaim it as the greatest thing ever.

Quote the person in this thread (or any other thread) doing this.

Originally Posted by Renzatic

For an example, see the iPad Mini. Once the stupidest idea in the word. Steve would never let it happen. It's a subpar product that wouldn't be good for anything, and would only eat into their bottom line. 9.7" is the perfect size for a tablet". Contrast to today, where apparently it's the greatest device they've ever made. SOOOOOO much lighter and easier to use than the old iPad.

Quote someone who's done a complete 180 on the iPad Mini please.

Impression management is really falling down these days, someone needs to write some better scripts.

EDIT: Here's a posting tip. When the response to a specific argument is the non-sequitur "Boy, I hate those Apple fans who think Apple can do no wrong; it's not a crime to like Apple and to also find faults" or "I hate Apple fans who say there will never be product X and then when Apple makes X say it's the greatest thing ever", then you are either dealing with an astroturfer or an idiot. These posts never deal with the specific argument, nor specify which poster they are referring to. It's a smear job, plain and simple.

***

Originally Posted by Benbikeman

If a particular segment of your customer-base is worth 1-2% of your bottom-line, you can afford to alienate them; if that segment is responsible for delivering 10-20% of your other customers, you can't.

So now your job is to show that the people you have in mind actually deliver 10 to 20 percent of their other customers. Absent this evidence, we are just making up numbers to suit our purposes.

[KnightWRX]

Originally Posted by Benbikeman

It is still true for me - I can't tell you how many people ask my advice on computer stuff.

They also ask me, I've never owned a Mac Pro.

Originally Posted by Benbikeman

That bit. If a particular segment of your customer-base is worth 1-2% of your bottom-line, you can afford to alienate them; if that segment is responsible for delivering 10-20% of your other customers, you can't.

But again, Mac Pro owners are not bringing in 10-20% of customers anymore. Those days are long gone. If anything, it's the guys with iPads that are saying how great Apple is that are bringing in the MacBook sales.

Originally Posted by Benbikeman

I totally agree with that, but there are still people who want a laptop, ask their knowledgeable friends and end up buying a Mac as a result.

Knowledgeable doesn't mean "owning a Mac Pro".

Originally Posted by Benbikeman

Size matters.

I don't find size to matter at all. In fact, I'd say the denser PPI on a 15" screen is overall better.

In the end, pixel count matters. UI elements are defined in terms of pixels, not in terms of inches. They take up the same number of pixels and thus the same percentage of the screen be it on a 15" or 17" monitor.

[Carouser]

Originally Posted by Renzatic

Apple only makes products for the elite few who can afford it. They wouldn't dare lower themselves by selling crappy products to just anyone simply to attempt expanding their marketshare.

...why would you want a Mac Pro? Only a so called elite few would ever need to use them. Apple caters to everyone these days. If mom 'n pop can't use it, then it doesn't matter to Apple's bottom line.

No one poster posted both of these things in this thread, therefore nobody has expressed a contradiction, good job as always.

EDIT: and just for good measure, there is no contradiction between "Apple sells quality products and doesn't compete on price" and "The niche of users targeted by the Mac Pro is decreasingly significant to Apple's revenues and profits", so even if there was someone who matched the strawman you conjured up, they wouldn't be contradicting themselves. Bravo.

[Benbikeman]

Originally Posted by KnightWRX

They also ask me, I've never owned a Mac Pro.

I'm referring to the MBP 17 (see thread title), not the MP.

I don't find size to matter at all.

Well, you do, you just find 15-inch an acceptable compromise. You could have a 7-inch 1920x1200 screen and you presumably wouldn't be saying that "size doesn't matter at all" then?

[Renzatic]

Originally Posted by Carouser

No one poster posted both of these things in this thread, therefore nobody has expressed a contradiction, good job as always.

EDIT: and just for good measure, there is no contradiction between "Apple sells quality products and doesn't compete on price" and "The niche of users targeted by the Mac Pro is decreasingly significant to Apple's revenues and profits", so even if there was someone who matched the strawman you conjured up, they wouldn't be contradicting themselves. Bravo.

Calling my argument a strawman is a strawman in and of itself. Trust me, there is definitely a prevalent and contradicting line of thought among people on this board. Basically, by supporting Apple's seeming abandonment of the high end market and only making goods for the Average Joe (that some of you will either support or turn on depending on the topic), you're applauding Apple making a high priced device for the lowest common denominator.

Now I have absolutely no problem with Apple making a product anyone can use. I do have a problem with them abandoning their core creative market just to chase the almighty dollar. Why can't they do both? Because one isn't as "profitable" as the other? Hell, unless you're a stockholder, Apple's short term profitability shouldn't be anywhere near on your mind. Cuz what does it matter? That they spent 600 million on a product that ate away at their 25 billion profit margin this year? Because you don't use those products? It's not like it's hurting you at all.

...so why do you anxiously anticipate the death of the Mac Pro? Apple selling out their high end market will only hurt them in the long run. They're abandoning the always solid, dependable, and loyal group of graphic artists, web designers, and movie studios who went to them to help get their work done, to Apple Inc, the guys who make those fancy PDAs for the ever fickle public...and are slowly losing marketshare due to overly aggressive competition.

Why can't they be both?

[righteye]

Originally Posted by Carouser

Apple 'sacrificed' these people? You and Apple exchanged money, goods, and services; they don't owe you anything else.



The dweebs whining about the Mac Pro aren't 'opinion leaders' and haven't been for years. Their purchase advice is completely insignificant.

The number of people who want to buy a Mac or iOS device AND who care about someone's advice because they use Serious Mac Pro Equipment For Real Work is rapidly approaching zero, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Using a Pro for its flexibility,upgradeability and power if they updated it! does't mean we are dweebs( well maybe see below)
The new top of the range iMac is a strong performer but to do all things the Pro can do(within one box) would need a mass of TB attachments and all the cost that would entail.
Some people seem hostile to Pro users owners not sure why, just want to get our work done with the right tool for the job.
The current Mac pro is still a powerful tool (compared with other Apple devices) and in a lot of cases its the software that needs to be updated to use that ability.


dweeb |dwēb|
noun informal
a boring, studious, or socially inept person.

Boring, yes we keep going on about a Mac Pro.
Studious, Our Gain.
Socially inept, will let others decide but i do not think i could do my job if i was.

[KnightWRX]

Originally Posted by Benbikeman

I'm referring to the MBP 17 (see thread title), not the MP.

I've never owned a MBP 17 either. People still ask me for my opinion, being I've been professionally involved with computer support for close to 15 years now, and that I've been a "wiz" for longer than 2 decades.

Originally Posted by Benbikeman

Well, you do, you just find 15-inch an acceptable compromise. You could have a 7-inch 1920x1200 screen and you presumably wouldn't be saying that "size doesn't matter at all" then?

I was eyeing the Vaio Z 13" 1920x1200 laptop a while back. I'm a sucker for PPI, what can I say ? I find the ideal size for UI elements to be around 160ish PPI.

[Benbikeman]

Originally Posted by KnightWRX

I was eyeing the Vaio Z 13" 1920x1200 laptop a while back. I'm a sucker for PPI, what can I say ?

Wow, reading something like the breadcrumb trail on a forum page here on that mix of screen size and resolution would make a hi-tech eye-test!

For me, 17-inch 1920x1200 is near-perfect. I'd take 18 or 19 inch if I could get it, especially as the MBP17 has the same exterior dimensions as a typical windows 15-inch machine, so Apple could probably get a 19-inch into a typical 17-inch box.

[Digital Skunk]

Originally Posted by Benbikeman

Wow, reading something like the breadcrumb trail on a forum page here on that mix of screen size and resolution would make a hi-tech eye-test!

For me, 17-inch 1920x1200 is near-perfect. I'd take 18 or 19 inch if I could get it, especially as the MBP17 has the same exterior dimensions as a typical windows 15-inch machine, so Apple could probably get a 19-inch into a typical 17-inch box.

I'd take 17" at 2560x1440 or whatever the 27" iMac's res is. I'd only want an 18" or 19" if Apple didn't make it a simple scaled up version of the 15" On the Windows side, they got more hardware for the added weight. For the 17" it was an extra USB port, a sub woofer, and Express Card.

[Benbikeman]

Originally Posted by Digital Skunk

I'd only want an 18" or 19" if Apple didn't make it a simple scaled up version of the 15" On the Windows side, they got more hardware for the added weight. For the 17" it was an extra USB port, a sub woofer, and Express Card.

What extra hardware would be on your list?

For my part, a CF card slot would be neater than the Express card reader I have, and an SD card reader would be handy for a couple of gadgets. I'm fine with three USB ports and a Thunderbolt.

[Digital Skunk]

Originally Posted by Benbikeman

What extra hardware would be on your list?

For my part, a CF card slot would be neater than the Express card reader I have, and an SD card reader would be handy for a couple of gadgets. I'm fine with three USB ports and a Thunderbolt.

It was long thought that once Thunderbolt took over, the 17" would have two TBolt ports, ditch the FW800 in favor of a fourth USB port, and then ditch the Express card slot for an SD reader.

Once the optical was lost, we'd hoped for a secondary drive as CTO. However, now I'd trade the second HDD for an even bigger battery.

I know you know that many PC 17" mobile workstations give us beefier processors, 32GB of RAM, dual GFX options and so forth so basically that in a Mac OSX laptop. I feel I may have to hackintosh a Dell M6600 or an Elitebook just to get a 17" screen running OSX.

[Benbikeman]

Originally Posted by Digital Skunk

It was long thought that once Thunderbolt took over, the 17" would have two TBolt ports, ditch the FW800 in favor of a fourth USB port, and then ditch the Express card slot for an SD reader.

I wouldn't want to lose the Express card slot unless replaced with a dual CF/SD card reader operating with the same transfer speeds. Express card transfers are faaaast! :-)

Once the optical was lost, we'd hoped for a secondary drive as CTO. However, now I'd trade the second HDD for an even bigger battery.

I really love having the second drive (I ditched my optical drive as soon as I bought the machine), so wouldn't want to lose that.

I know you know that many PC 17" mobile workstations give us beefier processors, 32GB of RAM, dual GFX options and so forth so basically that in a Mac OSX laptop. I feel I may have to hackintosh a Dell M6600 or an Elitebook just to get a 17" screen running OSX.

Yes, I guess that would be a solution, though from the limited reading I've done hackintoshes seem to be a pain in terms of drivers and updates. One of the best things about OSX is it Just Works.

[KnightWRX]

Originally Posted by xiaojie123

I have this suspicion as well. We may be seeing just a 11' air, 13' MacBook (amalgamation of both air and pro) and 15' MacBook pro. Apple seems to be in the process of streamlining their laptop line and the 17' currently sticks out like a sore thumb, IMO.

Suspicion ? This is an old thread that was ressurected. The 17" was discontinued last fall. It's been gone for a while, so it doesn't stick out at all.

[Squilly]

Wasn't the 17" already discontinued?

[RenoG]

Originally Posted by Squilly

Wasn't the 17" already discontinued?

Yup, this thread is a zombie....

[Digital Skunk]

Originally Posted by Benbikeman

I wouldn't want to lose the Express card slot unless replaced with a dual CF/SD card reader operating with the same transfer speeds. Express card transfers are faaaast! :-)

MMMmmmmmm I don't know. I kind alike having the option to get a reader through USB 3.0 or TBolt. For some CF card reader built in would be nice, for many more it would be built in SDXC, but everyone would benefit from 4 USB ports built in.

I am not a QXD fan by a long shot. I think Nikon should've just stuck with dual CF cards in the D4, or at the very least gave us CF and SD, so a shooter in the field can get his images from camera to comp with an SD slot.

I really love having the second drive (I ditched my optical drive as soon as I bought the machine), so wouldn't want to lose that.

Agreed. In Apple speak, having a second drive would add weight and space that wouldn't benefit anyone, but no one cares on a 17" mobile workstation. An SSD for boot, and a 7.2k HDD for scratch would be nice, dual SSDs even nicer if you one has the cash.

Yes, I guess that would be a solution, though from the limited reading I've done hackintoshes seem to be a pain in terms of drivers and updates. One of the best things about OSX is it Just Works.

Agreed as well. I know most of the articles I find have users hacking OSX into towers and cheap netbooks and the such. I haven't found many that show a user hacking the OS into a fully integrated Elitebook class workstation. Besides, who spends upwards of $3500 for a notebook to hack OSX onto it then loose all the support.

With me already heading deep into Android and open source solutions for my mobile computing, I may just bite the bullet and go back to Windows for a beefier laptop. Just about all of my software is cross platform or web based now.

Originally Posted by Squilly

Wasn't the 17" already discontinued?

Originally Posted by RenoG

Yup, this thread is a zombie....

True, but it beats having the wannabe forum Nazi moderators (not the actual mods) whining about how we started a new thread instead of searching.

[Gallion]

I would have an extremely hard time going back to something smaller than 17". I need the 1920*1200 resolution and anything smaller than 17" would make text hard to read from the distance at which I place my laptop.

I hope I don't need to replace my MBP in the coming years

[fpsBeaTt]

Here's hoping they reintroduce it with the removal of non-retina models.

[runeapple]

Originally Posted by fpsBeaTt

Here's hoping they reintroduce it with the removal of non-retina models.

I highly doubt it, especially with the different resolutions with the Retina 15" - You can get just as much screen estate as you could with the 17"

[Digital Skunk]

Originally Posted by Gallion

I would have an extremely hard time going back to something smaller than 17". I need the 1920*1200 resolution and anything smaller than 17" would make text hard to read from the distance at which I place my laptop.

I hope I don't need to replace my MBP in the coming years

Unfortunately you will and there will be few older 17" models to go to. It's either suffer with a 15" screen or buy obsolete hardware.

Originally Posted by fpsBeaTt

Here's hoping they reintroduce it with the removal of non-retina models.

Agreed, although I doubt Apple will mainly because they are pushing pro users into iMacs and 15" fashion statements. I know the 15" rMBP can perform and has "some" "options" but the workstations on the other side just run circles around it in terms of processing data/pixels for the visual media.

Dell already has a marketing campaign that puts the Mac Pro to irrecoverable shame. The software for media pros is also favoring platform agnosticism, with Adobe Creative Cloud giving you a cheaper licensing fee, that gets carried with you from machine to machine. That's making the case for switching a lot easier than years prior.

Originally Posted by runeapple

I highly doubt it, especially with the different resolutions with the Retina 15" - You can get just as much screen estate as you could with the 17"

You can cram the same amount of pixels into a 13" too, but in the end you are still looking at a smaller screen with smaller windows and UI elements. Even still, you are looking at a machine that is loosing a small deal of functionality as well.

The 17" MBP was the best of a lot of worlds. 17" screen, middle of the range specs, but first class weight compared to other 17" models.