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Old Feb 19, 2013, 10:23 PM   #26
r2shyyou
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Originally Posted by bozzykid View Post
At the very least they should be identifying duplicate reports (based on the GPS location) and using that info they should be able to rank reports that are occurring the most. This would help them prioritize commonly reported errors. There should rarely be a need to manually go through error reports one at a time. If they are, Apple has a terrible system that will never be manageable.
I agree that they shouldn't need to sift through each individual report and that's what I stated in my post, that I was assuming each POI to have been reported an average of 6.5 times, thereby cutting their work down significantly compared with the total number of unique reports.

Also, regarding prioritization, I, too, mentioned this and how a single POI getting reported many, many times would hopefully move it up whatever list they have but that it would still require some sort of manual confirmation.

Either way, as has been mentioned numerous times in this thread and others, they're not moving through them as quickly as we'd all like and that continues to hurt them, however minimally.

(I say "minimally" because they're still racking up billions of dollars in profit despite this.)
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 05:51 AM   #27
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I reported about 40 errors in my neighboorhood in the first few weeks after iOS 6 had been released. Not a single one has been fixed so far :-(
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 06:25 AM   #28
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At the very least they should be identifying duplicate reports (based on the GPS location) and using that info they should be able to rank reports that are occurring the most. This would help them prioritize commonly reported errors. There should rarely be a need to manually go through error reports one at a time. If they are, Apple has a terrible system that will never be manageable.
Well, it would at least stop the likes of this: http://mashable.com/2013/01/28/apple-maps-my-butt/
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 07:13 AM   #29
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From my experience reporting a problem is completely pointless.
I have reported some errors several months ago, nothing has changed. I wonder if they will just have to admit defeat one of these days and do what they have done with Ping.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 08:42 AM   #30
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Well, it would at least stop the likes of this: http://mashable.com/2013/01/28/apple-maps-my-butt/
Now isn't that interesting...

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From my experience reporting a problem is completely pointless.
I have reported some errors several months ago, nothing has changed. I wonder if they will just have to admit defeat one of these days and do what they have done with Ping.
It's only pointless if you expect one of the biggest companies in the world to address "some" of probably millions of issues that you, one user among hundreds of millions, reported in "several months."

To me, the bottom line of this maps ordeal is that it's a much bigger problem than I assume most people thought it would be, Apple included, and so I think it's fair to assume that Apple wasn't properly prepared to deal with it and, consequently, corrections are taking significantly longer than they should.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 11:55 AM   #31
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It's only pointless if you expect one of the biggest companies in the world to address "some" of probably millions of issues that you, one user among hundreds of millions, reported in "several months."
Funny, since that's our right as paying customers.

Perhaps the new maps are fine for you or maybe you're content to sit and wait for Apple to do as they please, but, as a paying customer, I'm not. I don't care how big the problem is. I don't care that they're overwhelmed with reports. All I care about is that I paid for a product, it worked fine and then, due to a corporate feud, Apple put itself over it's customers, gave us an inferior product, lied to us about how great it was (even though most of the beta testers listed numerous problems with it), and here, nearly 6 months later and after numerous apologies, still don't have a fix outside of, "we're working on it, just give us more time."

Sorry, but that doesn't fly with me.

When I bought the phone, I paid for working maps and various other features that are no longer working or accurate. I have since purchased and used many 3rd party apps that also no longer run as they once did.

I, not only, expect more from Apple, but I expect them to fix the problems they knowingly caused in a timely manner.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 11:57 AM   #32
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Apple will continue to improve their maps and hopefully get to a point where they are much better, but for now, Google maps is the better option. It takes 10 seconds to switch, why 'hang around' when there are better products?

I reported an issue (street that had been closed and modified) to Google Maps and it was fixed and changed within an hour complete with a confirmation e-mail from a Google employee. As much as I LOVE Apple, Google has got the Maps thing down.

When Steve Jobs returned to Apple one of the things he said was 'wrong' with Apple was they were so focused on making EVERYTHING that they REFUSED to accept anything they didn't make. Originally, technology in the IBM PC world moved slow and Apple had to move to get going. But, by the time Jobs came back, IBM-PC standards (like USB) blew what Apple had out of the water. So, one of the things Steve did, was ditch Apple technologies (like the Apple Serial Bus) in favor of industry standards that were better (like USB).

This seems like one of those examples, although what Apple did was an interesting strategic move. For years iPhone users were way behind what Android users got in terms of the Google maps app. However, within a couple months of Apple ditching Google maps, suddenly, we have a full featured Google maps app!

FWIW, I know Apple gets the maps from TomTom, but I have the TomTom app, and it doesn't have near the errors that Apple maps does (however; Apple maps is far from 'bad', and I tend to think the issue is over-inflated).

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Old Feb 20, 2013, 11:12 PM   #33
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I've reported dozens upon dozens of problems since I first got Apple Maps 5 months ago and not a single one of them has been fixed. There are two possibilities:

1. Apple is saving all the fixes that have been sent and it plans to release them all together in one big update when iOS 7 comes our.

2. Apple is continually fixing them as we speak, but this process is occurring so slowly, that no one notices it.


If #2 is accurate, then the app is completely hopeless. If Apple has actually been updating things and hasn't been stockpiling them, then it is going at such a slow pace that Maps will NEVER be a decent app.

If #1 is accurate, then there's still hope. This still isn't a good idea because it causes people to become disillusioned with the app because people simply won't use the 'Report A Problem' feature if they don't see it doing anything. Apple likes to release things periodically (ie. annually) rather than continually. That's how it functions with its hardware and software releases. The problem is that for a service like Maps, these upgrades should happen continually throughout the year, not on a periodic basis.
I thought maybe whoever was in charge of updating the data that Maps uses could simply upload the changes to a server and have them take effect immediately.

This is kind of unrelated, but when I had an iPod touch, at first it didn't know where I was when I was at home. I submitted all the needed info, but no changes happened. Then I ran an update and, lo and behold, the iPod suddenly knew that I was in the vicinity of my house.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 11:30 PM   #34
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Out of all the times I've used Apple Maps, only about three problems, two of which are minor, come to mind.

The first one happened while we were going from the airport in Little Rock to Tennessee, and vice versa.Even though the 440 connects to the 40, and both are freeways, Apple Map's calculated route involved getting off the highway just a short distance from the junction and taking a side street. On the trip to Tennessee, we did just that. Going back to the airport, I suggested not listening and proceeding further up I-40 to the junction, which shaved a few minutes off of the ETA. Maybe Siri was embarrassed when she figured out that part of our route was faster than the way she told us to go.

The second one had to do with a business. I think it's that the business doesn't exist anymore.

The third one was when we went to a park. This issue was the biggest.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 12:47 AM   #35
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Out of all the times I've used Apple Maps, only about three problems, two of which are minor, come to mind.
Like many others, when I checked Apple's Maps, I saw that they have my address and neighborhood wrong and are missing numerous POI throughout my town. Seeing how bad it was in an area I knew, I saw no reason to bother using it again- especially in an area I didn't know.

Until the few changes I reported are fixed, I have no reason to ever use it.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 07:51 AM   #36
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Apple gets its maps from TomTom, who has been making GPSs for years. If there's a mistake in Apple Maps, it's not because the app is new, it's just because TomTom made a mistake that has yet to be corrected. Therefore, I invite you to use the "Report a Problem" button that is conveniently located above the toggle that lets you switch between standard maps, satellite maps, and hybrid maps. You can even report a problem with a POI by tapping on the pin where Apple Maps thinks the place is and tapping "Report a Problem."
I have, repeatedly, and they don't fix anything.
It's a con.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 08:08 AM   #37
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Funny, since that's our right as paying customers.

Perhaps the new maps are fine for you or maybe you're content to sit and wait for Apple to do as they please, but, as a paying customer, I'm not. I don't care how big the problem is. I don't care that they're overwhelmed with reports. All I care about is that I paid for a product, it worked fine and then, due to a corporate feud, Apple put itself over it's customers, gave us an inferior product, lied to us about how great it was (even though most of the beta testers listed numerous problems with it), and here, nearly 6 months later and after numerous apologies, still don't have a fix outside of, "we're working on it, just give us more time."

Sorry, but that doesn't fly with me.

When I bought the phone, I paid for working maps and various other features that are no longer working or accurate. I have since purchased and used many 3rd party apps that also no longer run as they once did.

I, not only, expect more from Apple, but I expect them to fix the problems they knowingly caused in a timely manner.
First, the main point I was trying to get across in my post that you quoted was the "in several months" part. Assuming the problem is bigger than they anticipated, and depending on what it is you want to see fixed, I can think of many instances where expecting certain fixes in that amount of time is unreasonable.

BSben wrote that s/he had "reported some errors" a while back and that they hadn't yet been fixed. Without knowing what those errors were, I was trying to imply that, assuming there's a prioritized list, those errors could be very far down that list.

A simple example is if you'd reported that the pizza place or pub near your house was on the wrong side of the road. That's certainly a problem that needs fixing. But I suspect that there are more "urgent" fixes in the error list than that one, along with many others, and so expecting that to be fixed relatively shortly after Apple's debut in maps and then calling the whole effort "pointless" when it isn't fixed is, in my opinion, unreasonable.

Also, the new maps aren't fine for me; there are many errors, some of which I've reported, but I hardly use any map apps as I'm familiar with my surroundings enough to not need them. That's just me, though, and I consider myself lucky for that. I know that this isn't the case for many people and wouldn't be for me if I traveled outside of my "home" area more often.

As for having paid for a product that used to work but now doesn't, I don't see it the same way. You paid for an iPod, a phone, and an Internet communicator and it still works as all of those. Sure, maps had always been a part of the "stock" iPhone experience and that default changed in a negative way when iOS 6 was released. But that doesn't mean that quality maps suddenly because unavailable to you; there were free 3rd party map apps before Apple's Maps.app and there are yet more free ones today. Google's maps were always available via web and now they have a dedicated app as well (also free). You never specifically paid for Apple's Maps. In fact, they were introduced to you and everyone else as a free addition in the free iOS 6 software update. Apple has no doubt spent large sums of money on their maps and neither you nor I have directly contributed to that.

If Apple had released their new Maps.app in such a way that you were forced to use it and not any alternatives, then I'd sympathize with your sentiment and would almost certainly feel the same way. But they didn't and so I think the anger or fury or unhappy feeling towards them is, again, unreasonable.

You wrote that you expect Apple to "fix the problems they knowingly caused in a timely manner." I'm 100% certain that everyone has a slightly different definition of "timely" so why should Apple conform to yours?

I expressed in a previous post that I don't think they've been making corrections quickly enough and that this hurts them. The thing I was focusing on in my post that you quoted, however, is that it's unreasonable to call the whole thing "pointless" if some select fixes haven't been address "in several months" time.

This is their debut effort. It doesn't matter, to me, at least, that they've successfully debut other efforts or that they have boatloads of money or really anything else; this is a first for them and there will be bumps in the road. Heck, iOS 6 is not their first iPhone OS and there have been, and continue to be, numerous issues with that!

The point is that I doubt they're just sitting on their asses laughing at all of us go back and forth on this thing and that it will get better eventually. You didn't have to use their Maps before iOS 6 and you don't have to now. Yes, theirs are the default that other apps use and link to but I doubt that you can't find another way to do whatever you're trying to do. Less convenient? Sure. A pain the ass? Yup. Regrettable on Apple's part? Most likely. Pointless as a whole? Not in my book.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 08:27 AM   #38
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I reported about 40 errors in my neighboorhood in the first few weeks after iOS 6 had been released. Not a single one has been fixed so far :-(
Have you checked every single one of these?^^
I can't even remember what places I have reported & I bet you either (at least not all 40)
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 11:40 AM   #39
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Unhappy no reported corrections done

Like many other I have submitted a lot of corrections in my local area right from the release of Maps - some were minor (POI incorrect/out of date etc.) yet others are quite big errors (Missing roads/bridges, wrong town names, town showing location in the Sea (Norton, Isle of Wight, UK - its in the Solent!)

Not one single correction has been made. Not one. I no longer bother reporting issues as it seems pointless?

I can appreciate that there must be a mountain of data to process to fix errors in a global mapping system, but I would have really expected Apple to have been aware that however good their data was (or was not!) there would have always been a big requirement to maintain and correct the data.

I also query where some of this data originated from. For example there is a bogus park (Ensbury Park) shown in Bournemouth, UK which has never existed. Before houses were built there it was fields, over 80 years ago. Now there is a neighbourhood called "Ensbury Park" about half a mile away but it is *not* a park. Someone's algorithm messed that one up!

I like Apple maps, but unless Apple actually start systematically fixing reported errors its going nowhere fast.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 12:56 PM   #40
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The biggest problem is Apple doesn't own the map data. It is much easier for Google (who clearly have a better reporting system anyways), because they own a large portion of the map data.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 01:52 PM   #41
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These reports presumably can't fix themselves, no matter how many times they're duplicated. By this I mean to say (read: assume) that someone has to manually verify the accuracy of any one report, even if all 10 million reports were for the same thing. What getting 10 million reports for one thing likely would do is move that report to the top of the list.

So I'm assuming 10 million reports.

If the team working on these is, for example, a thousand strong and corrections began on day 1 of iOS 6's release 5 months ago, that calculates to approximately 65 corrections per day to be at zero. Of course, many reports are for the same thing so for the sake of argument, I'll assume 10 corrections per day per team member. And still yet, there are likely a more-than-negligible amount of reports that are maliciously bogus, intended to muck things up. These bogus reports further slow the process down in ways we can only speculate about.
I disagree. If you get a dozen reports from different users (possibly even verified people with credit card details on file) saying a business has shut down (which is a radio box, you don't even need to read anything), then you can have your system automatically mark it as shut down. If a dozen users all say business x is at approximately the same co-ordinates then you can probably assume that's where it is. With the state Apple's POI data is in at the moment you've really very little to lose by giving users the benefit of the doubt.

As for people saying its Tomtom, not Apple - the POI data's not Tomtom is it? It's the POI data that's crap where I live.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 02:11 PM   #42
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I disagree. If you get a dozen reports from different users (possibly even verified people with credit card details on file) saying a business has shut down (which is a radio box, you don't even need to read anything), then you can have your system automatically mark it as shut down. If a dozen users all say business x is at approximately the same co-ordinates then you can probably assume that's where it is. With the state Apple's POI data is in at the moment you've really very little to lose by giving users the benefit of the doubt.

As for people saying its Tomtom, not Apple - the POI data's not Tomtom is it? It's the POI data that's crap where I live.
If that's how you'd choose to run your mapping service crowd-sourced POI data then that's your choice but I don't personally think it's a good one.

I think it's fair to say that that's not how Apple runs theirs, considering how many things have gone unchanged (seemingly everything everyone in this thread has reported), and I personally feel better about that.

I'd rather it take longer and be right than it happen faster and be wrong.

To each their own, though.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 02:15 PM   #43
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I'd rather it take longer and be right than it happen faster and be wrong.
If they would be kind enough to allow us to choose our default map app then I'd be happy for them to take all the time in the world.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 03:22 PM   #44
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Have you checked every single one of these?^^
I can't even remember what places I have reported & I bet you either (at least not all 40)
I remember them because I've written them down. I live on a large street with lots of shops and cafes and when I saw this street on Apple Maps for the first time it was just embarrassing how inaccurate the data was. Apple Maps was showing locations that had closed 5 or more years ago, other shops had been placed totally wrong and there are many, many spelling errors as well. So I went down this street once and corrected 37 places to be precise. I've written them down. Not a single one has been fixed!

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If that's how you'd choose to run your mapping service crowd-sourced POI data then that's your choice but I don't personally think it's a good one.
So you're seriosuly suggesting that Apple should verify EVERY SINGLE of the millions and millions of places that is on their maps? How do you expect them to do that? Whenever a correction comes in, send somewhere to drive there and check if it's valid? Try to find a website or telephone book entry for that place? Call that place? And you want to do that for millions and millions of places everywhere around the world? Are you kidding me?
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 03:27 PM   #45
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In reality.. If I have somewhere to be, I don't have time to "fix" what apple has failed to do..

Wait a sec.. how much did I pay for my iPhone and cellular charges??? I don't have to fix a damn thing!

I'll continue to use Google Maps
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 03:43 PM   #46
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First, the main point I was trying to get across in my post that you quoted was the "in several months" part. Assuming the problem is bigger than they anticipated, and depending on what it is you want to see fixed, I can think of many instances where expecting certain fixes in that amount of time is unreasonable.

BSben wrote that s/he had "reported some errors" a while back and that they hadn't yet been fixed. Without knowing what those errors were, I was trying to imply that, assuming there's a prioritized list, those errors could be very far down that list.

A simple example is if you'd reported that the pizza place or pub near your house was on the wrong side of the road. That's certainly a problem that needs fixing. But I suspect that there are more "urgent" fixes in the error list than that one, along with many others, and so expecting that to be fixed relatively shortly after Apple's debut in maps and then calling the whole effort "pointless" when it isn't fixed is, in my opinion, unreasonable.

Also, the new maps aren't fine for me; there are many errors, some of which I've reported, but I hardly use any map apps as I'm familiar with my surroundings enough to not need them. That's just me, though, and I consider myself lucky for that. I know that this isn't the case for many people and wouldn't be for me if I traveled outside of my "home" area more often.

As for having paid for a product that used to work but now doesn't, I don't see it the same way. You paid for an iPod, a phone, and an Internet communicator and it still works as all of those. Sure, maps had always been a part of the "stock" iPhone experience and that default changed in a negative way when iOS 6 was released. But that doesn't mean that quality maps suddenly because unavailable to you; there were free 3rd party map apps before Apple's Maps.app and there are yet more free ones today. Google's maps were always available via web and now they have a dedicated app as well (also free). You never specifically paid for Apple's Maps. In fact, they were introduced to you and everyone else as a free addition in the free iOS 6 software update. Apple has no doubt spent large sums of money on their maps and neither you nor I have directly contributed to that.

If Apple had released their new Maps.app in such a way that you were forced to use it and not any alternatives, then I'd sympathize with your sentiment and would almost certainly feel the same way. But they didn't and so I think the anger or fury or unhappy feeling towards them is, again, unreasonable.

You wrote that you expect Apple to "fix the problems they knowingly caused in a timely manner." I'm 100% certain that everyone has a slightly different definition of "timely" so why should Apple conform to yours?

I expressed in a previous post that I don't think they've been making corrections quickly enough and that this hurts them. The thing I was focusing on in my post that you quoted, however, is that it's unreasonable to call the whole thing "pointless" if some select fixes haven't been address "in several months" time.

This is their debut effort. It doesn't matter, to me, at least, that they've successfully debut other efforts or that they have boatloads of money or really anything else; this is a first for them and there will be bumps in the road. Heck, iOS 6 is not their first iPhone OS and there have been, and continue to be, numerous issues with that!

The point is that I doubt they're just sitting on their asses laughing at all of us go back and forth on this thing and that it will get better eventually. You didn't have to use their Maps before iOS 6 and you don't have to now. Yes, theirs are the default that other apps use and link to but I doubt that you can't find another way to do whatever you're trying to do. Less convenient? Sure. A pain the ass? Yup. Regrettable on Apple's part? Most likely. Pointless as a whole? Not in my book.
One of the things I reported was a missing shopping centre in Bristol including the largest cinema in the city centre. When asking Siri to find you a cinema in the city centre, it will send you to many weird places like a laser eye clinic, but the Showcase Cinema in Cabot Circus is just not there, nor are any shops in Cabot Circus, which opened on the same day as Apple Store (which Apple Maps does know). There were many other things, I have never even bothered with pubs sitting in the middle of a road or are in the wrong place a couple of streets away. The only thing that I had reported and got changed was the missing of the city of Newport in South Wales.
This was just to clarify the kind of things I reported, nothing else.
And even though I have in the last few months almost lost faith in Apple Maps,
I am still more than happy to give it a chance, because it has potential to be very good.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 04:09 PM   #47
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If they would be kind enough to allow us to choose our default map app then I'd be happy for them to take all the time in the world.
I think that's one of the biggest sticking points with Maps and iOS in general and I'm sure a lot of other people share your sentiment, myself included.

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So you're seriosuly suggesting that Apple should verify EVERY SINGLE of the millions and millions of places that is on their maps? How do you expect them to do that? Whenever a correction comes in, send somewhere to drive there and check if it's valid? Try to find a website or telephone book entry for that place? Call that place? And you want to do that for millions and millions of places everywhere around the world? Are you kidding me?
I'm not suggesting anything, I'm trying to make sense, in my head, at least, of how so many errors have gone unfixed for this long. That's not to say I think "this long" is too long but rather that it's not a simple matter of setting a threshold of x number of reports and then taking whatever corrective action once that number of reports has been reached that all have the same correction.

And obviously Apple didn't independently verify every single POI and road, etc. when they licensed the data; I assume that they assumed that it was good. And also obvious is that they were wrong.

I don't know what happens to reports when they receive them and how fixes happen and I haven't at any point pretended to know but it seems clear to me that it isn't a simple process and that the amount of time that's gone by with the amount of errors there are having not been fixed is evidence of that.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 04:58 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by el3ktro View Post
I remember them because I've written them down. I live on a large street with lots of shops and cafes and when I saw this street on Apple Maps for the first time it was just embarrassing how inaccurate the data was. Apple Maps was showing locations that had closed 5 or more years ago, other shops had been placed totally wrong and there are many, many spelling errors as well. So I went down this street once and corrected 37 places to be precise. I've written them down. Not a single one has been fixed!

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So you're seriosuly suggesting that Apple should verify EVERY SINGLE of the millions and millions of places that is on their maps? How do you expect them to do that? Whenever a correction comes in, send somewhere to drive there and check if it's valid? Try to find a website or telephone book entry for that place? Call that place? And you want to do that for millions and millions of places everywhere around the world? Are you kidding me?
Oh, yeah we have many shops here too^^
Especially on the 5th Ave, mehhh

I don't know, we try to offer our help & Apple just gives a **** :-//
I can't explain that being to anyone, WHY Apple!? Why!
I am not a big Maps user (not Google Maps either) tho.

Hope you long street will be fixed^^
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 06:24 PM   #49
cyks
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Originally Posted by r2shyyou View Post
As for having paid for a product that used to work but now doesn't, I don't see it the same way. You paid for an iPod, a phone, and an Internet communicator and it still works as all of those. Sure, maps had always been a part of the "stock" iPhone experience and that default changed in a negative way when iOS 6 was released. But that doesn't mean that quality maps suddenly because unavailable to you; there were free 3rd party map apps before Apple's Maps.app and there are yet more free ones today. Google's maps were always available via web and now they have a dedicated app as well (also free). You never specifically paid for Apple's Maps. In fact, they were introduced to you and everyone else as a free addition in the free iOS 6 software update. Apple has no doubt spent large sums of money on their maps and neither you nor I have directly contributed to that.

If Apple had released their new Maps.app in such a way that you were forced to use it and not any alternatives, then I'd sympathize with your sentiment and would almost certainly feel the same way. But they didn't and so I think the anger or fury or unhappy feeling towards them is, again, unreasonable.
Please check the Apple description page for reasons to buy an iPhone and see what's included. You'll note that they list both the maps and updates as features of the phone, so, yes, I paid for them. If Apple didn't list them as features or hadn't regularly offered iOS updates in the past and decided to make this a one time 'free' upgrade available, it'd be a different story...but that's not the case. Just because we didn't have to pay a fee to upgrade to iOS 6 doesn't mean we didn't already pay for it, we did.

By all means, please tell me how I can use any other mapping app for location based reminders, Find My Phone/ Friends, Safari links, and so on...without resorting to jailbreaking or hacks. Sorry, I am forced into using Apple's Maps.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 10:32 PM   #50
Idefix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OllyW View Post
If they would be kind enough to allow us to choose our default map app then I'd be happy for them to take all the time in the world.
the main reason I jailbroke my iPhone was to be able to assign Google Maps as the go-to app for Address Book.

Now, if I need to go to a POI, I add it to the address book and look it up on Google Maps (doesn't seem to be a jailbreak app that transfers the address from Safari to Google Maps...)
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