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Old Aug 1, 2012, 07:01 AM   #351
antonis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdarling View Post
The primary reason for the voting in the first place, was so that the forum could avoid all the one-line "+1" responses. The up-vote keeps that purpose. Agreement requires no explanation.

OTOH, now that people actually have to explain why they don't agree with something, the debates have brought in more people with wider views, IMO.
Yes I do see your point. Though, I tend to look the things more technical (probably because of my job). I used to consider the up/down voting as a quick view of how many people liked/disliked a specific opinion/post. A quick display of the majority's reaction to something.

Having only an up-voting button is totally blurring this view, imo.
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Old Aug 1, 2012, 10:52 AM   #352
zoetmb
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Originally Posted by Reach9 View Post
what an incorrect statement. Every competitive company's goal is to maximize profits. Their goal is to make money.
Jonny is trying to make it look like Apple is different than any other company, when in it's definition it's the same as Samsung, RIM, Google etc, ... their goal is to make money.
Apple makes great products to get money, but money is still the main driving force.

Also, if a two-toned iPhone is their 'best work yet'.. then i'm unpleasantly surprised.
That's not really what he said. The implication of what he said is that they're not going to compromise on product design in order to maximize profits. So if a plastic and metal case was cheaper to manufacture than a unibody case, but Apple prefers the unibody case design, they're going with the latter even if it reduces the per unit profit. They do that on the basis that consumers will prefer Apple's design preference and that will increase profits in the long run.

Amazingly, in spite of Apple's design decisions, Apple probably has the highest per-unit margins in the industry.

Of course, those design decisions still have to be made at a practical level. They're not going to embed gold into the case, because the price would be so high that it would become a niche product. So it really comes down to, "where do you draw the line?" Apple happens to draw the line at a different place than most other manufacturers.

I think the difference that Ive was alluding to is that at most other companies, when a major new product or line is considered, the question that is asked is, "how will this increase shareholder value?" I don't think that question is asked at Apple. I think what Apple asks is, "Is this a great product?" even if the definition of what is great is one defined by Apple.

Having said that, Ive only has the freedom to claim that Apple doesn't care about profit (which isn't really what he meant anyway) because Apple's revenues, profits and share price is really beyond belief. Apple actually got punished by the market for a few days when they announced their latest quarterly results because they only beat last year by $6.4 billion in revenue and $1.5 billion in profit. What a miserable failure!!! WHAT!!??????

There was a time not that long ago when if Apple reported annual revenue of $6.4 billion, it would have been considered a miracle. The expectations have become ridiculous and I don't envy Tim Cook having to meet them, simply because analysts have become unrealistic hysterics.
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Old Aug 1, 2012, 01:03 PM   #353
/V\acpower
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Peoples really misunderstand this statement because they don't want to accept that maybe peoples on top of a billion dollars company may note care that much about money.

I think we need an example.

I am a teacher, I really love my job, I enjoy my subject, the relationship and conversation I have with my student, I enjoy the liberty and variety of topics I can talk about in class (I teach philosophy).

Really, I am passionate about what I do.

But yes, i'm getting paid, yes if the college would stop paying me I would not wake up 5 days a week to go teach. Yes I would love to make more money from this also.

So now, can I say that I'm not into this for the money ? Yes I can, because even if i'm being paid to do it, the reason I choose this career in particular it's because I really have a passion for it. When I wake up in the morning, I don't think about my future paycheck, I think about my class and what I will teach today.

But of course, it's still important that I can live from it, but it still is not the main reason, I still can have a passion about the work in itself.

This is the exact same thing that Jony Ive mentionned, the fact that peoples in charge really have a passion about creating products, they don't simply think about their bank account. Even if a job can bring you millions of dollars, it still very possible to be passionate about it in a deep and honest way. And actually that's one reason why they are so successful.

The best example of that is Steve Jobs. The guy knew he had cancer back in 2006 and knew at the time that his life expectancy was considerably reduced. The guy was already filthy rich and could have just left Apple and spend his money before he died. But still, he instead choose to continue to work at Apple and continue to be very implicated in the creation process of most of Apple flagship products.

Seriously, if that is not a proof of not being into something for the money I don't see what will...
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Old Aug 1, 2012, 02:19 PM   #354
Thunderhawks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saturn88 View Post
Here is one for you:

Apple Can Afford to Make iPhone in U.S.
"If Apple were willing to accept lower margins and the 8 hours of assembly labor on the iPhone were on-shore and paid at U.S. rates, Apple would still have a gross margin of nearly 50 percent,"
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2403416,00.asp

Hint: Apple assembles less phones in huge China then Samsung in tiny Korea. Enough people? Tiny Finland assembles more phones then US.

Compare to a phone, car is actually made of many more components and requires a much more complex manufacturing infrastructure.

Why would any company be reducing their gross margins, just to be patriotic?

Those who are already awake, know we live in a global economy!

You want businesses to be idealistic? Not their mission!

I can see you don't want to read up on why "the produce in USA mantra" is just a hot air balloon.
Start with the CATO institute about worker shortages (Which btw will happen in China too).

Also, Apple is much better off not owning a factory.
They give orders when they have orders. Nothing to manage as far as people go and you can demand what you want.

No fights with environmental agencies about what to build where.

And, what would they do with a factory of gigantic proportions if a product they make in the millions is no longer successful?

Google the story about 30,000 engineers not available in the US. City sizes who could provide the amount of people Foxconn has.

US mass production is a nice pipe dream, which btw when it is in the US in most cases isn't even done by Americans.!
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 02:58 AM   #355
johnmacward
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boss.king View Post
If your goal isn't making money, then why not lower your profit margins and sell your stuff at a reasonable price?

Edit: before telling me why I'm wrong, please read beyond page 1.
I signed in JUST to plus 1 this comment.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 02:53 PM   #356
RenoG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmacward View Post
I signed in JUST to plus 1 this comment.
Yes but instead you plus voted a failed comment. Boss.king post like the other trolls who commented on this took Ive's comments very literal and out of context hence missing the point.

Without repeating please see /V\acpower's post above.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 03:00 PM   #357
runeapple
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderhawks View Post
Why would any company be reducing their gross margins, just to be patriotic?

Those who are already awake, know we live in a global economy!

You want businesses to be idealistic? Not their mission!

I can see you don't want to read up on why "the produce in USA mantra" is just a hot air balloon.
Start with the CATO institute about worker shortages (Which btw will happen in China too).

Also, Apple is much better off not owning a factory.
They give orders when they have orders. Nothing to manage as far as people go and you can demand what you want.

No fights with environmental agencies about what to build where.

And, what would they do with a factory of gigantic proportions if a product they make in the millions is no longer successful?

Google the story about 30,000 engineers not available in the US. City sizes who could provide the amount of people Foxconn has.

US mass production is a nice pipe dream, which btw when it is in the US in most cases isn't even done by Americans.!

Here Here! I don't understand why people think people should sacrifice profits just to say "Made in US" after all many parts of the products are made in the US anyway!
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 06:29 PM   #358
G51989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderhawks View Post
Why would any company be reducing their gross margins, just to be patriotic?
Because being patriotic and building things in your home country, could very well lead to increased sales.

Quote:
Those who are already awake, know we live in a global economy!
Yes we do, it doesn't mean you need to screw your own country/community.

Quote:
You want businesses to be idealistic? Not their mission!
So your saying every single business doesn't give a **** about their own country? Workers? And Community? because I can assure you, lots do.

Quote:
I can see you don't want to read up on why "the produce in USA mantra" is just a hot air balloon.
Start with the CATO institute about worker shortages (Which btw will happen in China too).
It doesn't need to be a hot air balloon, America is the most productive country in the world, we're smarter, better, and more productive than the Chinese, using education and lots of automated factories staffed with skilled workers. We can bury the Chinese, no problem.

Quote:
Also, Apple is much better off not owning a factory.
They give orders when they have orders. Nothing to manage as far as people go and you can demand what y
Slave labor! Wohoo!

Quote:
No fights with environmental agencies about what to build where.
I know, not dumping heavy metals and horrible things into air and water supplies? Hurts the bottom line dammit!
Quote:
And, what would they do with a factory of gigantic proportions if a product they make in the millions is no longer successful?
Retool and try again.

Quote:
Google the story about 30,000 engineers not available in the US. City sizes who could provide the amount of people Foxconn has.
Yes, in America we can automate, and bring the costs down even more. This country is 100% capable about beating China, remember. China produces 0 high tech and high quality goods on their own.


Quote:
US mass production is a nice pipe dream, which btw when it is in the US in most cases isn't even done by Americans.
Its called Automation, despite being down, the US produces almost as much as China, and they produce high quality goods. 0 goods designed and built in China are of good quality.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by runeapple View Post
Here Here! I don't understand why people think people should sacrifice profits just to say "Made in US" after all many parts of the products are made in the US anyway!
SO thats all it is with you people? Money? **** your country, **** your community, **** your fellow citizen, and **** human rights in the name of the Almighty dollar.

God, you people disgust me.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 12:42 AM   #359
boss.king
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Originally Posted by RenoG View Post
Yes but instead you plus voted a failed comment. Boss.king post like the other trolls who commented on this took Ive's comments very literal and out of context hence missing the point.

Without repeating please see /V\acpower's post above.
Yeah, because not agreeing with you makes me a troll
If you managed to read beyond the first page you'd have seen that I succinctly explained my point.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 03:57 AM   #360
runeapple
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G51989 View Post
Because being patriotic and building things in your home country, could very well lead to increased sales.



Yes we do, it doesn't mean you need to screw your own country/community.



So your saying every single business doesn't give a **** about their own country? Workers? And Community? because I can assure you, lots do.



It doesn't need to be a hot air balloon, America is the most productive country in the world, we're smarter, better, and more productive than the Chinese, using education and lots of automated factories staffed with skilled workers. We can bury the Chinese, no problem.



Slave labor! Wohoo!



I know, not dumping heavy metals and horrible things into air and water supplies? Hurts the bottom line dammit!

Retool and try again.



Yes, in America we can automate, and bring the costs down even more. This country is 100% capable about beating China, remember. China produces 0 high tech and high quality goods on their own.




Its called Automation, despite being down, the US produces almost as much as China, and they produce high quality goods. 0 goods designed and built in China are of good quality.

----------



SO thats all it is with you people? Money? **** your country, **** your community, **** your fellow citizen, and **** human rights in the name of the Almighty dollar.

God, you people disgust me.
Not per say - but you can't expect a company to reduce profits just to make it in there own country - the idea of a company is to make money - maybe the government should offer incentives to encourage people to manufacturer in their own country?
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 05:46 AM   #361
maxosx
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Originally Posted by runeapple View Post
Not per say - but you can't expect a company to reduce profits just to make it in there own country - the idea of a company is to make money - maybe the government should offer incentives to encourage people to manufacturer in their own country?
Yeah, like Government Motors (GM). That's working out real well.

We pay the tab, the Union gets fatter, the cars sit unsold in lots (think Chevy Volt) and POTUS gets a photo opp.

Next up, Facebook gets a handout.

Time for Apple to get their fair share of Government Money.

Just what we need, more government control.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 06:04 AM   #362
runeapple
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxosx View Post
Yeah, like Government Motors (GM). That's working out real well.

We pay the tab, the Union gets fatter, the cars sit unsold in lots (think Chevy Volt) and POTUS gets a photo opp.

Next up, Facebook gets a handout.

Time for Apple to get their fair share of Government Money.

Just what we need, more government control.
Nothing wrong with offering incentives to encourage manufacturing in your own country - this doesn't necessarily mean more control from the government - in the long run the government will make more money even if incentive hand outs are given out - and futhermore more US jobs will be created.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 06:11 PM   #363
Thunderhawks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G51989 View Post
Because being patriotic and building things in your home country, could very well lead to increased sales.



Yes we do, it doesn't mean you need to screw your own country/community.



So your saying every single business doesn't give a **** about their own country? Workers? And Community? because I can assure you, lots do.



It doesn't need to be a hot air balloon, America is the most productive country in the world, we're smarter, better, and more productive than the Chinese, using education and lots of automated factories staffed with skilled workers. We can bury the Chinese, no problem.



Slave labor! Wohoo!



I know, not dumping heavy metals and horrible things into air and water supplies? Hurts the bottom line dammit!

Retool and try again.



Yes, in America we can automate, and bring the costs down even more. This country is 100% capable about beating China, remember. China produces 0 high tech and high quality goods on their own.




Its called Automation, despite being down, the US produces almost as much as China, and they produce high quality goods. 0 goods designed and built in China are of good quality.

----------



SO thats all it is with you people? Money? **** your country, **** your community, **** your fellow citizen, and **** human rights in the name of the Almighty dollar.

God, you people disgust me.
Do you ever leave your house and check reality?

You may be disgusted, but for money all of what you mention happens every day.

Your "productive" USA imports more than it exports, has a huge trade imbalance with China and is from top to bottom down to it's consumers money oriented.

They buy where it is cheapest! End of story!

Even your Made in USA products have parts from all parts of the world.


I could go on forever, but it is clear that you do not think globally or inform yourself

Looking at things through red white and blue glasses seems to make you blind!
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