Apple used to be ahead of the curve

[The iGentleman]

Originally Posted by bmac4

I just have a problem with all these companies doing their own things with android, and a lot of the time they mess up what android was all about. I will agree that s beam is faster, but why did they now you have a feature that only works with Samsung phones. All the skins that are in android stupid. I know it is googles fault for letting these companies to this, but I guess it works out cause they do have more market share than IOS.

I don't really have a problem with the skins and such, because it allows OEM's to differentiate themselves. If not for their additional features and skins, they would all be the same. I think the OEM's having freedom is key to the success of Android as it provides customers with choice.

[bmac4]

Originally Posted by The iGentleman

I don't really have a problem with the skins and such, because it allows OEM's to differentiate themselves. If not for their additional features and skins, they would all be the same. I think the OEM's having freedom is key to the success of Android as it provides customers with choice.

Yea I just think with some of the not so good skins it can turn people off to android. A lot of then do make it easier for the user than pure google does.

[mattopotamus]

Originally Posted by bmac4

Yea I just think with some of the not so good skins it can turn people off to android. A lot of then do make it easier for the user than pure google does.

putting a launcher over a skin is a really easy way to hide it.

[bmac4]

Originally Posted by mattopotamus

putting a launcher over a skin is a really easy way to hide it.

Yea, but some times those skins can slow the phone down

[The iGentleman]

Originally Posted by bmac4

Yea I just think with some of the not so good skins it can turn people off to android. A lot of then do make it easier for the user than pure google does.

I think certain overlays such as Sense make it simpler for beginner users. I wouldn't recommend a Nexus to a beginner user, and instead would likely recommend an HTC phone. The thing with the bad skins is, it comes with the territory. With the current model, there isn't anything that can be done to prevent some company's from producing poor devices.

[bmac4]

Originally Posted by The iGentleman

I think certain overlays such as Sense make it simpler for beginner users. I wouldn't recommend a Nexus to a beginner user, and instead would likely recommend an HTC phone. The thing with the bad skins is, it comes with the territory. With the current model, there isn't anything that can be done to prevent some company's from producing poor devices.

Yea I understand. I would never recommend a nexus to a beginner either. I think touchwiz has lot to offer for new users.

[The iGentleman]

Originally Posted by bmac4

Yea I understand. I would never recommend a nexus to a beginner either. I think touchwiz has lot to offer for new users.

The reason I'd recommend HTC over Samsung (to a new user), is because HTC pretty much fully lays out the home screens for you. The person can just turn the phone on for the first time, set up their accounts, and go. Samsung sets up their home screens, but to a lesser extent. HTC does a lot more hand holding. Take a look at the upcoming HTC One. With blinkfeed, a new user pretty much has to do nothing to set up their homescreen, and they will still have a content rich homescreen.

[bmac4]

Originally Posted by The iGentleman

The reason I'd recommend HTC over Samsung (to a new user), is because HTC pretty much fully lays out the home screens for you. The person can just turn the phone on for the first time, set up their accounts, and go. Samsung sets up their home screens, but to a lesser extent. HTC does a lot more hand holding. Take a look at the upcoming HTC One. With blinkfeed, a new user pretty much has to do nothing to set up their homescreen, and they will still have a content rich homescreen.

Yea that is true. That is why I don't like them as much. I like what google made android to do just there idea.

[sentinelsx]

Originally Posted by The iGentleman

The reason I'd recommend HTC over Samsung (to a new user), is because HTC pretty much fully lays out the home screens for you. The person can just turn the phone on for the first time, set up their accounts, and go. Samsung sets up their home screens, but to a lesser extent. HTC does a lot more hand holding. Take a look at the upcoming HTC One. With blinkfeed, a new user pretty much has to do nothing to set up their homescreen, and they will still have a content rich homescreen.

But to some it may look cluttered, busy, and more like an information overload.

I just hope those are more like widgets and can be turned off.

[The iGentleman]

Originally Posted by sentinelsx

But to some it may look cluttered, busy, and more like an information overload.

I just hope those are more like widgets and can be turned off.

For those who I don't like it, it can be turned off. What I am saying is that for a beginner user who may not know how they want to set their screen up, this could be particularly nice.

[mib1800]

Originally Posted by The iGentleman

For those who I don't like it, it can be turned off. What I am saying is that for a beginner user who may not know how they want to set their screen up, this could be particularly nice.

TouchWiz has the "basic" or idiot-proof homescreen option for beginners. It is preset with all the basic widgets etc.

[The iGentleman]

Originally Posted by mib1800

TouchWiz has the "basic" or idiot-proof homescreen option for beginners. It is preset with all the basic widgets etc.

I find HTC's devices to be more hand-holding for beginners.

[bmac4]

Ok so after a week of this post it seems that most people on This forum still consider the iphone 5 the standard that all over smartphones should look to. Well I would like someone to prove that to me. I am not sure that I can believe that.

Ok so here are some key features that I think Android phones have that set a standard for smartphones:

- NFC

- Screens wider than 2"

- SD card slots (on most android phones)

- LTE (while this is not true any more Android had it long before Apple)

- True HD screens (yes Apple has retina display it is not true 720p)

Please someone tell me how Apple had something before this, or something better. I think all of these things are key features that have set Android technology ahead of Apple. The reason that I put NFC first is because with that technology a lot new features can be made. This is why I say Android in the curve now. Now Apple guy tell me how I am wrong.

[zhenya]

Originally Posted by bmac4

Ok so after a week of this post it seems that most people on This forum still consider the iphone 5 the standard that all over smartphones should look to. Well I would like someone to prove that to me. I am not sure that I can believe that.

Ok so here are some key features that I think Android phones have that set a standard for smartphones:

- NFC

- Screens wider than 2"

- SD card slots (on most android phones)

- LTE (while this is not true any more Android had it long before Apple)

- True HD screens (yes Apple has retina display it is not true 720p)

Please someone tell me how Apple had something before this, or something better. I think all of these things are key features that have set Android technology ahead of Apple. The reason that I put NFC first is because with that technology a lot new features can be made. This is why I say Android in the curve now. Now Apple guy tell me how I am wrong.

None of those things really matter in practice to most users - and that's what you are missing.

NFC? A nice thing on rare occasions, I guess. Not going to sell anyone except geeks.

Bigger screens is not a revolution, it's a fad. Smaller screens were once a fad as well.

SD slots have been abandoned by Google because they bring more hassle than they are worth for all but a minority of geeks. People prefer built-in storage, and yet the 16GB iPhone is still the best seller by far.

LTE is not a revolution. Apple wisely chose to leave it out until power consumption was under control.

Again, nobody but geeks care about full hd screens on small phones. Pixel density is what matters.

This is a mature market and you are trying to find a way to claim small incremental improvements as being cutting edge. That's not what the market cares about. People want phones that look good, operate intuitively, are reliable, and have a battery that lasts at least a full day. That's why the iPhone is still the best selling individual phone model by far. Everyone else is fighting for the leftover consumers who value these various features above all else. Cumulatively that adds up to a good number of sales. None of them will sell a lot of phones on their own.

[bmac4]

Originally Posted by zhenya

None of those things really matter in practice to most users - and that's what you are missing.

NFC? A nice thing on rare occasions, I guess. Not going to sell anyone except geeks.

Bigger screens is not a revolution, it's a fad. Smaller screens were once a fad as well.

SD slots have been abandoned by Google because they bring more hassle than they are worth for all but a minority of geeks. People prefer built-in storage, and yet the 16GB iPhone is still the best seller by far.

LTE is not a revolution. Apple wisely chose to leave it out until power consumption was under control.

Again, nobody but geeks care about full hd screens on small phones. Pixel density is what matters.

This is a mature market and you are trying to find a way to claim small incremental improvements as being cutting edge. That's not what the market cares about. People want phones that look good, operate intuitively, are reliable, and have a battery that lasts at least a full day. That's why the iPhone is still the best selling individual phone model by far. Everyone else is fighting for the leftover consumers who value these various features above all else. Cumulatively that adds up to a good number of sales. None of them will sell a lot of phones on their own.

You are going to call NFC good only on the rare occasion? How can you say that? Look at the post from earlier talking about S beam and android Beam. Sure you only want to transfer information every now and then, but when you do NFC sure makes things easier. Also NFC is also becoming a payment option how is that not cool and "cutting edge"?

No see you are wrong about the screen thing. Yea when people add dumb phones the race was to see who could make the smallest phone. Ever since the iphone came out in 2007 the only things companies have been trying to skink was the weight and thickness of smartphones.

Really android has abandoned SD slots? Why do the flagship android phones have it like the S3 and Note II?

LTE, Apple did not want to do it because of of the battery. I am so tired of hearing this crap. Look at the Motorola Razr Maxx. It seemed to have battery under control. It also came out before Apple has LTE. Please don't say it had a huge battery. Maybe Apple needs a bigger battery. I would not say my iphone 5 battery worth a crap. I may get a day of use out of it.

The true HD thing. All you Apple fans wanted to say how great the iphone 4 was and its retina display, but now true HD is only for geeks which is it?

My favorite thing to hear is Apple fans listing off all the features android phones have that the iphone does not as things that don't matter. They all don't matter until the iphone gets them. Just like LTE. The iphone did not need it , or the battery would suffer. Battery life is my favorite argument because the iphone battery is not very good. Sure Apple does a good job of making sure apps are not running when the screen it off, so standby time is good, but when I use my iphone it uses battery like crazy.

[Vegastouch]

Originally Posted by zhenya

None of those things really matter in practice to most users - and that's what you are missing.

LOL, say what?

NFC? A nice thing on rare occasions, I guess. Not going to sell anyone except geeks.

Bigger screens is not a revolution, it's a fad. Smaller screens were once a fad as well.

a fad? So you expect them to get smaller? Then why is Apple going to have yet a bigger one in 2014?

SD slots have been abandoned by Google because they bring more hassle than they are worth for all but a minority of geeks. People prefer built-in storage, and yet the 16GB iPhone is still the best seller by far.

Built in storage is the bomb. Not all the phone makers have it but it sways me to which phone ill buy. A reason why Samsung is the best seller.

LTE is not a revolution. Apple wisely chose to leave it out until power consumption was under control.

LOL, Apple was slow to implement it is all. They have deadlines to put their products together and didnt get it done in time but make you think you dont need it like MMS.

Again, nobody but geeks care about full hd screens on small phones. Pixel density is what matters.

Im hardly a geek but i do like nice screens. Its the benchmark scores that geeks love.

[zhenya]

Originally Posted by bmac4

My favorite thing to hear is Apple fans listing off all the features android phones have that the iphone does not as things that don't matter. They all don't matter until the iphone gets them. Just like LTE. The iphone did not need it , or the battery would suffer. Battery life is my favorite argument because the iphone battery is not very good. Sure Apple does a good job of making sure apps are not running when the screen it off, so standby time is good, but when I use my iphone it uses battery like crazy.

Because fundamentally those features don't matter. Sure, LTE is nice when I got it, but did it revolutionize how I used my phone? Not at all.

When Apple chooses a feature it can make it take off because it will be implemented well and there will be a huge user base using that exact model phone for 2-4 years.

You can keep going on about the features, but it's the implementation that matters. Excess of features is actually like an alarm bell to me that a given product is going to be exceptionally mediocre.

[bmac4]

Originally Posted by zhenya

Because fundamentally those features don't matter. Sure, LTE is nice when I got it, but did it revolutionize how I used my phone? Not at all.

When Apple chooses a feature it can make it take off because it will be implemented well and there will be a huge user base using that exact model phone for 2-4 years.

You can keep going on about the features, but it's the implementation that matters. Excess of features is actually like an alarm bell to me that a given product is going to be exceptionally mediocre.

Ok just before you said it all did not matter, but now it matters only when Apple implements it into their phone?

This is just crazy talk. Like I said I just love when Apple fans say "only when Apple adds a feature to the iphone does it matter". Or the other big one when Apple does it, "it just works". At this point I am not sure what you are arguing? Are you saying these features matter or they don't?

[zhenya]

Originally Posted by bmac4

Ok just before you said it all did not matter, but now it matters only when Apple implements it into their phone?

This is just crazy talk. Like I said I just love when Apple fans say "only when Apple adds a feature to the iphone does it matter". Or the other big one when Apple does it, "it just works". At this point I am not sure what you are arguing? Are you saying these features matter or they don't?

I'm pointing out that it can seem that way because it may introduce a huge wave of users to a new tech all at once, and present it to them in a way that makes it genuinely useful.

ie. if Apple decides to back NFC, it will probably take off. If they don't, it probably won't.

Apple pretty much single-handedly killed mobile flash, etc.

Right now, no, NFC is not of any use to me because it's still a niche tech with minimal uses. I may know 3 people who have NFC capable phones, and I have no desire to swap files with them, nor is it likely that I'm going to make any payments with it. So that's a feature that doesn't matter to me.

Now if Apple were to suddenly strike a deal where all their new phones had NFC, integrated it in such a way that it was genuinely useful for sharing data, and put together a payment system that was widely accepted, then yes, it could suddenly have some use. But again, the value is in the implementation, not the feature itself in isolation.

[bmac4]

Originally Posted by zhenya

I'm pointing out that it can seem that way because it may introduce a huge wave of users to a new tech all at once, and present it to them in a way that makes it genuinely useful.

ie. if Apple decides to back NFC, it will probably take off. If they don't, it probably won't.

Apple pretty much single-handedly killed mobile flash, etc.

Oh dear here we go. So because Apple choices not to have NFC it is not going to make it. Even though android has a longer market share and a lot of the those android phones have NFC. I don't think NFC is going away with or without Apple having it.

Again Apple having a feature does not make it great or not. Are you saying LTE was not going to stick around if Apple did not use it? You are crazy if you think that.

I still don't get your argument. One hand you say they don't matter, but on the other they do if Apple has them. So now you are standing firm that only if Apple has a feature it makes if relevant?

[zhenya]

Originally Posted by bmac4

I still don't get your argument. One hand you say they don't matter, but on the other they do if Apple has them. So now you are standing firm that only if Apple has a feature it makes if relevant?

No, I'm saying, again, that this appears to happen when Apple gets on-board because they will sell, very quickly, a large number of devices with that new feature, and just as importantly, it will probably be implemented very well.

Android has the disadvantage that you have a huge number of competing companies each with their own distinct vision of what they want to do, making it difficult for them to get critical mass behind any one particular standard, unless, like in the case of micro-usb, some other entity drives it. If Samsung continues to have success with the S3/S4 series line of phones, that may start to change somewhat. That remains to be seen.

[F123D]

Originally Posted by zhenya

Right now, no, NFC is not of any use to me because it's still a niche tech with minimal uses.

Unlike passbook which has taken the world by storm.

[bmac4]

Originally Posted by zhenya

No, I'm saying, again, that this appears to happen when Apple gets on-board because they will sell, very quickly, a large number of devices with that new feature, and just as importantly, it will probably be implemented very well.

Android has the disadvantage that you have a huge number of competing companies each with their own distinct vision of what they want to do, making it difficult for them to get critical mass behind any one particular standard, unless, like in the case of micro-usb, some other entity drives it. If Samsung continues to have success with the S3/S4 series line of phones, that may start to change somewhat. That remains to be seen.

Well you said Apple single handily killed mobile flash. If you think Apple can do that then why did LTE make it? Android had it at least a year or more before Apple. Also why did Apple make a bigger screen?

NFC is not going away so I think Apple will again have to jump on board. This is why I say that Apple is the behind the curve on these things. The LTE thing if Apple was so great at making thing work then why did they not have LTE first and figure out a way not to have to drain the battery? Why did Apple not have a 4" screen 2 years ago when that was the android standard? When Apple adds NFC to there next phone why will Apple not have done it first? Also what about wireless charging android has that one too? Are you going to tell me that is flash in the pan too?

[matttye]

Originally Posted by bmac4

Oh dear here we go. So because Apple choices not to have NFC it is not going to make it. Even though android has a longer market share and a lot of the those android phones have NFC. I don't think NFC is going away with or without Apple having it.

Again Apple having a feature does not make it great or not. Are you saying LTE was not going to stick around if Apple did not use it? You are crazy if you think that.

I still don't get your argument. One hand you say they don't matter, but on the other they do if Apple has them. So now you are standing firm that only if Apple has a feature it makes if relevant?

Without getting involved in the main argument, I will just say one thing; something is more likely to catch on when the iPhone supports it than when Android does, purely because there are hundreds if not thousands of Android phones all with different feature sets. When a feature is added to Android it reaches less of the market than when a feature is added to iOS/iPhone.

For example, even Google apps like Google Wallet don't work on every Android phone. So even if your phone has NFC you might not be able to make payments with it.

Just one example of the fragmentation on Android.

I know fragmentation exists on iOS devices too, but to a lesser degree.

[bmac4]

Originally Posted by matttye

Without getting involved in the main argument, I will just say one thing; something is more likely to catch on when the iPhone supports it than when Android does, purely because there are hundreds if not thousands of Android phones all with different feature sets. When a feature is added to Android it reaches less of the market than when a feature is added to iOS/iPhone.

For example, even Google apps like Google Wallet don't work on every Android phone. So even if your phone has NFC you might not be able to make payments with it.

Just one example of the fragmentation on Android.

I know fragmentation exists on iOS devices too, but to a lesser degree.

That is true, but some of the things Zhenya is arguing are things like LTE which was taking off with or without Apple. Or screen size that was already going crazy. My point is Apple was once the company that started things like this. Sure it may take off even more because Apple did it, but they were the leaders before. Also though you have to think about a lot the features Apples so calls "makes take off" are things half iphone users don't even use. Sure they are on the phone, but half the user don't even know how to use it.