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Old Feb 22, 2013, 08:00 PM   #26
the.unko.lema
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwerle View Post
That's funny. My iPhone 4 map solutions are:
* no turn by turn (from apple)
* turn by turn (from google)
Erm... wha?

Apple provides me with turn by turn and I live in Australia.

Like everyone, I loved google Maps, but have to say, the new one really sucks arse compared to Apple's offering.

Here's why

Turn by turn is really bad
"In 300 meters.... *silence* ..."
" In 1 km turn right onto eee-splay-nard"... and theres a no right turn sign...great.

It feels like an android app
- for some reason whenever I turn a corner in my car it asks me if I would like to submit feedback. Clever use of the accelerometer right there.
- The floating menus and thing disappearing all the time are annoying.

Lack of integration
- I find a business on google, and it asks me if I'd like to open it in google maps, i choose yes, it directs me to the app store, i tap on 'open app' and then it doesn't even open, nor can it find the business when i type it in.


In my experience, besides the lack of streetview (a great feature), Apple has pulled off the massive feat pretty well.
Yes there were bugs, but for me now, it gets me to where I want to go... Im yet to come across the scenario of being told to drive into a lake. Which Im sure will happen sometime soon.
Also, I ask siri for directions, it likes my voice, and I don't have to even look at the phone. Great hands free.
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 08:05 PM   #27
Karma*Police
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Originally Posted by jav6454 View Post
Apple do us all a favor and switch back to Google Maps.
Yes, because that'll fix everything, including all the flaws in Google maps. Even after almost a decade, there are plenty of issues with Google maps.
<http://blog.telemapics.com/?p=263>
<http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/google_gives_city_bikers_bum_steer_ll9XRaiMZUfVMPkc7b3oaJ>

What happened to the obligatory, "competition is good!" remark I see on these boards everytime someone releases an Apple tech clone? Does that statement not apply to Apple? I, for one, think Apple maps with built-in turn-by-turn and Yelp integration is a huge improvement over iOS 5 maps. It's not perfect, but for a 1.0 product, it's been pretty darn good in all the areas I've used it.
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 08:10 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by jav6454 View Post
Oh look! Someone who refuses to acknowledge a hard known fact...
Apple Maps works fine for me. If I didn't have it, I'd be annoyed.
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 08:18 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jav6454 View Post
Oh look! Someone who refuses to acknowledge a hard known fact...
The only "Fact" is that the only people that are really going to say anything are the ones having issues. How many every day people will come on here and post about how well Apple's maps work? None. I've yet to have a single issue with it myself. It's been completely perfect for me.
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 08:37 PM   #30
kalsta
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Originally Posted by nicwalmsley View Post
The source of the problem is that it adds a marker on Maps that looks like it is meant to designate a town or city (and it looks like that because that is what it does do, some of the time)... but often the marker is actually placed at the geographic centre of a District. And the marker gets a label that is the District name. Which has nothing to do with the location or even existence of a town or city.



But, is this general problem where whole districts get turned into fictitious towns, and where real towns don't get any label at all, just an Australia specific problem?

ps, no replies that you shouldn't rely on a map to help tell you where you are. Don't call it a map if it can't do that.
Great post mate—you describe the problem well. Since it seems to be a problem with the interpretation of Australian mapping data by Apple, not the data itself, I'd have thought this would have been a relatively simple thing for Apple to fix once they became aware of it. If however, they have to painstakingly correct this on a case-by-case basis, then something is very seriously flawed with their database and the way they built it, that it retains no distinction between towns and districts. What a mess.

I don't know the answer to your question, about whether this particular issue is specific to Australia. Maybe someone else can answer that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRumors View Post
Apple did eventually fix the issue in central Australia, but the company has been slow to fix many mapping issues even through the app's official "Report a Problem" button.
That was in Mildura, not 'Central Australia'. Not that it matters to most of your readers—but hey, in an article about the accuracy of Apple's mapping data, you probably should get your own data correct.
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 08:38 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwerle View Post
That's funny. My iPhone 4 map solutions are:
* no turn by turn (from apple)
* turn by turn (from google)
I'm talking about Google's plans when Apple maps didn't exist. You're talking about their plans after they exist. These are two very different things.

Obviously Google is going to change their plans when situations change. They're not stupid.


Quote:
Originally Posted by macsrcool1234 View Post
They intentionally held nothing back. Were you under a rock when all the map discussions were around?
Ok, then enlighten me. You're saying Google accidentally just forgot to give turn-by-turn to Apple?
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 08:44 PM   #32
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They need Ground Truth Data Specialists around the world...not just in Australia. While they're at it, they need to buy a big fleet of cars and outfit them with 360-degree cameras. Then dispatch teams to start driving around like Google has already done.

I love Google Street view, but more and more of the places I look up either have a haze covering the lens that makes the image unusable or the image is completely black or it looks like it was taken inside a long dark tunnel at warp speed. I'm surprised Google still has issues like that since they're not novices at this anymore. I wonder if Apple could eventually do something similar to Street View but better?
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 08:45 PM   #33
Bill Killer
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The original deal between Google and Apple did not include turn-by-turn. In the recent negotiations, Google would have included this feature for iPhone users in return for Google Latitide integration and better app branding for Maps. Apple said no. Google said no turn-by-turn. The rest is history.

Get your facts right before spouting nonsense.
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 09:00 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicwalmsley View Post
So I was wondering, the problems with Maps in Australia are chronic (police have reported several life threatening situations where members of the public and even state authorities have been confused by mapping data provided by Apple, eg location of wild fires in relation to a town people have been order to evacuate)... but I had assumed it was a universal problem flowing from a structural design flaw, not something specific to Australia.

What I am talking about isn't the poor quality of low level data (eg, it can't find a fruit shop that is just around the corner from my house, yet gives a search result of somewhere 12,000 kms away).

There's a much bigger, more wore spread, significant problem.

Maps doesn't know where whole towns and even whole cities are.

And beyond that, it lists whole towns that do not exist.

The source of the problem is that it adds a marker on Maps that looks like it is meant to designate a town or city (and it looks like that because that is what it does do, some of the time)... but often the marker is actually placed at the geographic centre of a District. And the marker gets a label that is the District name. Which has nothing to do with the location or even existence of a town or city.

So we end up with a map that shows me South East Queensland - say 250 km top to bottom.

I see a town marker for Brisbane (pop 1.5 million), and it is in the correct location.

I see a town marker for Moreton, about 50km north of Brisbane. There is no such town. There is a district called Moreton. So maybe it is based on that.

I see a town marker called Redland, located on North Stradbroke Island. There is no town of Redland. There is a district called Redland, and Straddie is in that district.

I see Noosa (a real town) with no marker. As I zoom down on Noosa, no marker ever appears. Until I get to some suburbs, and streets.

Anyway - what I'm getting at is, this seems a structural flaw with underlying design of mapping data, not a specific locality based problem.

Or are they going to literally go through every district and town in Australia? if so, crowdsource it, outsource it, call it WikiMaps and it will be fixed in a month.

But, is this general problem where whole districts get turned into fictitious towns, and where real towns don't get any label at all, just an Australia specific problem?

ps, no replies that you shouldn't rely on a map to help tell you where you are. Don't call it a map if it can't do that.
I wonder where did Apple Maps got their data from?

Could it be from the media or the analysts or pundits.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by entropys View Post

Yes, that is the real problem. It misidentifies shires as a specific location and places them higher in the location hierarchy than a township that happens to have the same name.. So the centre of the shire of mildura is used as the location first, rather than the town of mildura when someone asks to go to mildura. Also try to find a location interstate using Siri. It will try its hardest to pretend nothing exists on the other side of the state border.

It should be a simple global fix, at least for Australia, but it has not happened after all this time.
They are trying to fix the problem and you are bring up history.

Oh look my glass is half empty.
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 09:05 PM   #35
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They could start by actually paying attention to user feedback.

I've been using the in-app facility to post corrections since Apple Maps (and iOS 6) were in the Beta stage. Some issues are glaring, like airports being marked as being 30km from their actual location.

Other corrections I've posted are to data that is downright dangerous. A private access road through a mine site near my workplace is marked as a public road.

However, not a single correction I have posted to the in-app tool has been acted upon. They haven't really taken mapping in Australia seriously at all up until now.
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 09:14 PM   #36
jashic
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It's only a matter of time as people updates their apps to use the google maps API vs the iOS SDK version. In about a year, the only apps that will use Apple maps will be the built in ones.

Apple maps is complete garbage and i live in SAN FRANCISCO, 30 miles from Apple HEADQUARTERS. I tried to go to a restaurant and it told me to PASS MY EXIT, GET OFF AT THE NEXT EXIT, MAKE A UTURN, GET BACK ON THE HIGHWAY AND PARK MY CAR IN THE LEFT LANE. ON A HIGHWAY.

This is NOT Australia nor Asia nor London. This is San Francisco. Silicon Valley. The restaurant has been there in the same spot for 90 years. It's a san francisco institution of a restaurant. Highly acclaimed.
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 09:17 PM   #37
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This man would be turning in his grave after the picture you put up here.

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Old Feb 22, 2013, 09:28 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by cocky jeremy View Post
The only "Fact" is that the only people that are really going to say anything are the ones having issues. How many every day people will come on here and post about how well Apple's maps work? None. I've yet to have a single issue with it myself. It's been completely perfect for me.
Not for me, for the last 10 driving directions, Apple maps has been, beyond wrong. Restaurants in the middle of housing areas, nonexistent streets, and so much more. Yesterday it gave the the address for a government building that had moved 2 years ago to a new location. I knew not to trust Apple, yet I foolishly went with it. In case you are wondering, last minute deal in the middle of an interstate. Siri to the rescue, not.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatalbert View Post
Apple Maps works fine for me. If I didn't have it, I'd be annoyed.
Just wait, I used to be like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karma*Police View Post
Yes, because that'll fix everything, including all the flaws in Google maps. Even after almost a decade, there are plenty of issues with Google maps.
<http://blog.telemapics.com/?p=263>
<http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/google_gives_city_bikers_bum_steer_ll9XRaiMZUfVMPkc7b3oaJ>

What happened to the obligatory, "competition is good!" remark I see on these boards everytime someone releases an Apple tech clone? Does that statement not apply to Apple? I, for one, think Apple maps with built-in turn-by-turn and Yelp integration is a huge improvement over iOS 5 maps. It's not perfect, but for a 1.0 product, it's been pretty darn good in all the areas I've used it.

Apple's Maps are not even worth being called competition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solomani View Post
Because Google will make sure that Google Maps will always be a second-rate product on iOS, lacking all the full functionality of the Android version.
ck a
Really? Everyone says the iPhone OS GMaps is on par or even better than the Android version. So I have to ask, what second-rate product? What lack of functionality are you talking about?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermillion9494 View Post
I thought competition was always a Good Thing?
Like I said before, Apple is not a competition in the Maps game.
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 09:36 PM   #39
Bill Killer
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Originally Posted by jav6454 View Post

ck a
Really? Everyone says the iPhone OS GMaps is on par or even better than the Android version. So I have to ask, what second-rate product? What lack of functionality are you talking about?
No joke. Outside of complete iOS integration, which is out of Google's control, it's substantially more packed application than its direct competition.
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 09:48 PM   #40
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Waze is a better idea. Should have just bought them out.
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 10:44 PM   #41
Lancer
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Sounds like a cool job!

Also not to pick but Mildura is not where near 'Central Australia' maybe if the Apple Maps were working more people would know that? Alice Springs is the major town in central Australia, over 1700kms away.

https://maps.google.com.au/maps?hl=e...&ved=0CLMBELYD
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 11:08 PM   #42
patrickfish
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too late

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Originally Posted by jav6454 View Post
Apple do us all a favor and switch back to Google Maps.
Apple, you are too late and too slow. Can I call you Microsoft?

The Apple maps in Washington and Oregon state have been a MAJOR fail. I used to be pretty much an Apple fanboi, but no longer. And a fanboi for 30 years.

Apple, your maps suck. You are too slow to respond. That's an understatement.

You should have been jumping through your butts when you saw issues. But you are not. You are taking your sweet time. You are becoming MS.

You know, maybe you should eat some crow and at least let me set Google Maps App and CHROME as my default apps for maps and web. Okay?

Since Steve died, the company has deflated like a balloon.

And, I'm tired of Cook talking about how "INCREDIBLE" and "AWESOME" everything is. How about under promising and over-delivering?

And if you don't come out with a bigger phone, I may jump ship. I will keep my MacBook Pro. Best computer ever.

And stop jacking customers on iPad? What a ripoff. Double the memory and add $100? Add LTE and it's $129 more? Even the most reasonable iPad mini is $549 with 32 GB RAM and LTE. NO THANKS! Especially with the ****** resolution.

BYe!!

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jashic View Post
It's only a matter of time as people updates their apps to use the google maps API vs the iOS SDK version. In about a year, the only apps that will use Apple maps will be the built in ones.

Apple maps is complete garbage and i live in SAN FRANCISCO, 30 miles from Apple HEADQUARTERS. I tried to go to a restaurant and it told me to PASS MY EXIT, GET OFF AT THE NEXT EXIT, MAKE A UTURN, GET BACK ON THE HIGHWAY AND PARK MY CAR IN THE LEFT LANE. ON A HIGHWAY.

This is NOT Australia nor Asia nor London. This is San Francisco. Silicon Valley. The restaurant has been there in the same spot for 90 years. It's a san francisco institution of a restaurant. Highly acclaimed.
=======

My brother uses a janky, old Android phone that's barely a "smartphone" (smaller and old) and he can talk any request for anything and it gives him great directions. It's spot on.

ANd he does't need an iPhone 4S. It's the old, janky Android. I turned off Siri since it sucked so much. And I use Google Maps app.

After using Apple products since 1979, Apple maps is a massive embarrassment and I refuse to use it. Worse, I can't make Google maps the default.

Apple, let the pros (Google) do what they do best.
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Old Feb 23, 2013, 12:40 AM   #43
Tech198
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lol...

more hiring ... in Aus....

umm.. ya... that may be a good idea :P WHy didn't you think of that *before* you decided to go into a Map service.

If Apple can't meet demand for their users, then don't do a Map service, until they are sure they can cope..

This is like watch dominoes falling over after you've knocked them..

Fun to watch this go down-hill.
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Old Feb 23, 2013, 01:46 AM   #44
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Old Feb 23, 2013, 02:04 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Small White Car View Post
That choice was Google's terms for continuing to allow Apple to use their maps past this year. It has nothing to do with what's in their own app...Google had no incentive to make the iPhone maps nicer than the Android maps.
Glad you have the documents of the internal negotiations. Can you share them with us?
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Old Feb 23, 2013, 02:04 AM   #46
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Lets be honest, Apple maps are c***.I have always though whatever Apple touch it will turn into gold. Certainly it is not the case with that product. 3D maps are cool but totally useless in compare to street view. Also quality of satellites images are very poor. Not mention about wrong data. As a matter of fact I would like to help them with that by sending some sort of notifications but interface build by apple to "report the problem" is so unfriendly in order to make me to use it. They completely lost sens of direction with this core app....you get it...lost of direction...nevermind.
They got to come up with something groundbreaking to get attention. All what I can think of is 3D but with real pictures instead some animations.
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Old Feb 23, 2013, 02:05 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jav6454 View Post
Apple do us all a favor and switch back to Google Maps.
I have both, Apple and Google maps on my iPhone 5. I used Google maps maybe 4 or 5 times. I use Apple maps every day. I think chances are you will see Michael Jackson live on stage again before you see Apple going back to Google maps.
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Old Feb 23, 2013, 05:12 AM   #48
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Yeah because fixing Australia is going to make everything OK!

Apple Maps sucks in my country as well. Totally useless.
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Old Feb 23, 2013, 05:45 AM   #49
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I for one prefer Apple Maps. The GUI is much nicer and destraction free. I use it in Belgium and the maps are very complete and even include roads that are not finished yet. I did not see that with google maps or payed services like Navigon (which is horribly outdated).

Traffic is also very accurate. Too bad it's not showing during turn by turn.

And ios6.1 did introduce new features. before, you had to type any address correctly. Now it shows a "Did you mean?" dialog like in the google map days. Didn't see that before in iOS 6.

so, it all depends on your region.
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Old Feb 23, 2013, 07:02 AM   #50
b-dogg
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They could do with hiring a "truther" for every country because the "report a problem" feature is useless and being ignored at Apple maps HQ.

In Ireland Apple maps are completely useless.

Eg. I've tried to add my business - a Chemist - to the maps several times over the past few months. Nothing has changed. Apple maps lists several chemists that have closed over 10 years ago in my area and misplaces existing ones. And this is despite my business being listed correctly on Yelp, Google Maps, Foursquare and Tomtom places. What the hell are they doing to fix maps? The data is all out there on these sites - they're ignoring error reports and not pulling data from other sources.

Another example is the Shelbourne Hotel in Dublin on St. Stephens green - the flagship hotel for Dublin City centre. Apple maps has placed it about 5 miles away. The reason? It has it listed as 27 St. Stephens ROAD instead of 27 St. Stephens GREEN. I submitted a correction about 4 months ago (I was going there and looked it up) and it's still sitting 5 miles away off the South Circular Road as of today.

Apple maps could get a lot better a lot more quickly if they actually took the feedback they were getting and crowdsourced corrections from people in the area and other business listing sites. What is the use reporting errors if they're never acted upon? One hiring per country physically can't do this. Their system appears broken and they don't seem to care about fixing it in a hurry.

It's a shame as the UI is really nice.

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