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Old Feb 23, 2013, 12:00 PM   #1
peor
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Windows on Mac questions :)

Hello everyone. I am planning to buy a Mac (probably MacBook Pro 13" 2011 which I would upgrade to SSD SATA 3 and 16 GB of memory) and since some software works only on Windows I am planning to add them as well. So because of that I have couple of questions:



1) Is performance of Windows trough Boot Camp much better than VMware or Parallels?


2) How is MacBook computer responding in Boot Camp Windows? Does it respond the same as non-Mac would with this kind of hardware configuration?


3 a) 64-bit MacBook Pro and 32-bit Windows (in VMware / Parallels / Boot Camp). Does that (different bits) work OK?

3 b) Are files compatible on both (64 + 32-bit) systems?


4) Are all files accessible between a) OSX b) Boot Camp Win c) VMware/Parallels Win? How do the win “partitions” work in that case?


5) How is with Copy – Paste? Can you do that from Virtual Windows to OSX (and vice versa)?


6) How is with hardware drivers when installing Windows (Parallels and Boot Camp), do I have to search for any or is everything prepared?


7) And finally, VMware or Parallels? What are the pros and cons of them?
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 08:40 AM   #2
Quantum3
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Hi
Quote:
Originally Posted by peor View Post
1) Is performance of Windows trough Boot Camp much better than VMware or Parallels?


2) How is MacBook computer responding in Boot Camp Windows? Does it respond the same as non-Mac would with this kind of hardware configuration?


3 a) 64-bit MacBook Pro and 32-bit Windows (in VMware / Parallels / Boot Camp). Does that (different bits) work OK?

3 b) Are files compatible on both (64 + 32-bit) systems?


4) Are all files accessible between a) OSX b) Boot Camp Win c) VMware/Parallels Win? How do the win “partitions” work in that case?


5) How is with Copy – Paste? Can you do that from Virtual Windows to OSX (and vice versa)?


6) How is with hardware drivers when installing Windows (Parallels and Boot Camp), do I have to search for any or is everything prepared?


7) And finally, VMware or Parallels? What are the pros and cons of them?
1) YES, absolutely yes.
2)It responds perfectly, except for the trackpad, which works a litle bit different, so using a mouse is much better.
3a) There is no impact in performance in relation to your question.
3b) Yes, both are compatible. Windows 64 installs every 32 program into a separated folder called "Program Files (x86) for those programs running at 32 bits.
4) Yes, you can access to your files stored in a Mac OS formatted disk when you're inside Bootcamp. You can copy files from the mac partition to a windows partition, but not at the inverse for security reasons. Same applies for file modifications. You cannot modify mac files if you're in Windows except when you use Parallels/VMware. In there, there is no difference between OS. You can chose to share/delete/copy/etc. files between both OS through Parallels or VMware.
5) It was responded on point 4.
6)Everything is prepared, however, you can upgrade your drivers in Bootcamp for example, the Graphic Card Drivers.
7) Parallels has much more options to make the virtual machine that hosts windows, faster. However, the performance is poor in comparison to directly boot from Bootcamp.

If you want Bootcamp to play games, go for the MBP 15" and a 1GB Graphic Card. It's also easier to find drivers for that video card, and you will play flawlessly

Ř3
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 08:47 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Quantum3 View Post
Hi


1) YES, absolutely yes.
2)It responds perfectly, except for the trackpad, which works a litle bit different, so using a mouse is much better.
3a) There is no impact in performance in relation to your question.
3b) Yes, both are compatible. Windows 64 installs every 32 program into a separated folder called "Program Files (x86) for those programs running at 32 bits.
4) Yes, you can access to your files stored in a Mac OS formatted disk when you're inside Bootcamp. You can copy files from the mac partition to a windows partition, but not at the inverse for security reasons. Same applies for file modifications. You cannot modify mac files if you're in Windows except when you use Parallels/VMware. In there, there is no difference between OS. You can chose to share/delete/copy/etc. files between both OS through Parallels or VMware.
5) It was responded on point 4.
6)Everything is prepared, however, you can upgrade your drivers in Bootcamp for example, the Graphic Card Drivers.
7) Parallels has much more options to make the virtual machine that hosts windows, faster. However, the performance is poor in comparison to directly boot from Bootcamp.

If you want Bootcamp to play games, go for the MBP 15" and a 1GB Graphic Card. It's also easier to find drivers for that video card, and you will play flawlessly

Ř3
All good except you can have read write access to a Mac formatted disk from Windows in bootcamp if you install software like MacDrive.
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 01:07 PM   #4
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Hi hi Quantum3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantum3 View Post
1) YES, absolutely yes.

7) Parallels has much more options to make the virtual machine that hosts windows, faster. However, the performance is poor in comparison to directly boot from Bootcamp.
I see about virtual vs. Boot Camp

So would SSD SATA 3 disk and 16 GB of memory make a decent performance on (virtual) Windows WITH osx?



3b) I meant is "64 bit" Mac OSX (and the files created here or there) 100% compatible with 32-bit Windows (Boot Camp and virtual) and vice versa?

P.S.: No games will be played just some photoshoping and usual stuff on an external Full HD 24" monitor . I suppose integrated graphic card on MBP13" will be enough?

Thank you

and thank you justperry!
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 01:21 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peor View Post
3b) I meant is "64 bit" Mac OSX (and the files created here or there) 100% compatible with 32-bit Windows (Boot Camp and virtual) and vice versa?

P.S.: No games will be played just some photoshoping and usual stuff on an external Full HD 24" monitor . I suppose integrated graphic card on MBP13" will be enough?
OS X only comes in 64 bit since version 10.7 (10.8 is the current version). You can use either a 32 bit or 64 bit version of Windows on your Mac - whether it's a VM or Boot Camp. You should go with 64 bit, though, as 32 bit has a 4GB RAM limitation.

The integrated graphics and a VM should be perfectly fine for your needs. You can, however, set up a Boot Camp partition and then use Parallels/VMWare to virtualize it. Best of both worlds.
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 03:46 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Stooby Mcdoobie View Post
OS X only comes in 64 bit since version 10.7
Oh nice, thank you for info, I didn't knew that. So on 32-bit 10.6 even the 16 gb of memory would be unused.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stooby Mcdoobie View Post
You can use either a 32 bit or 64 bit version of Windows on your Mac - whether it's a VM or Boot Camp.
Yeah would love to do that, but some programs I run from Windows work ONLY on 32-bit (tested)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stooby Mcdoobie View Post
You can, however, set up a Boot Camp partition and then use Parallels/VMWare to virtualize it. Best of both worlds.
You mean first make a Boot Camp Windows on separeted partition and then inside OSX install (where?) VMware or Parallels Windows?
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 04:09 PM   #7
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Oh nice, thank you for info, I didn't knew that. So on 32-bit 10.6 even the 16 gb of memory would be unused.
I'm not quite sure, but I think the first Intel Macs had the same limitation because of the architecture. My knowledge is somewhat limited when it comes to hardware - I'm more of a software guy.

Quote:
Yeah would love to do that, but some programs I run from Windows work ONLY on 32-bit (tested)
Have you tried to run them on a 64 bit system? They may or may not work. Check out WoW64.

Quote:
You mean first make a Boot Camp Windows on separeted partition and then inside OSX install (where?) VMware or Parallels Windows?
You would create a Boot Camp set up like normal. Then you would install VMWare or Parallels and there is an option to virtualize your existing Boot Camp partition. This will make it so you can use it without having to leave OS X like a normal VM, or boot natively into Windows like you would a regular dual-boot system.
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 05:03 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Stooby Mcdoobie View Post
Have you tried to run them on a 64 bit system? They may or may not work. Check out WoW64.
Yes I tried (I run them as 32-bit applications from 64-bit Windows) but they didn't work - I guess that's the idea of WoW64?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stooby Mcdoobie View Post
You would create a Boot Camp set up like normal. Then you would install VMWare or Parallels and there is an option to virtualize your existing Boot Camp partition.
Sounds nice, but this will not "ruin" the Boot Camp Windows right?

It will only "copy" the same Windows to virtual machine?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stooby Mcdoobie View Post
This will make it so you can use it without having to leave OS X like a normal VM, or boot natively into Windows like you would a regular dual-boot system.
So I would run Windows from OSX trough what?

P.S.: I am (not even) new in Mac world.
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 08:08 PM   #9
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Parallels + windows is the only thing that comes close to using all 8gb on my MacBook Pro. Performance is fine for the apps I run - Visual Studio, Access, and application testing. I allocate 1/2 the processor to windows.

Rebooting into windows is a royal pain. I had to do that on my old MacBook since it only had 2gb.
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 03:10 AM   #10
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Parallels + windows is the only thing that comes close to using all 8gb on my MacBook Pro. Performance is fine for the apps I run - Visual Studio, Access, and application testing. I allocate 1/2 the processor to windows.

Rebooting into windows is a royal pain. I had to do that on my old MacBook since it only had 2gb.
Thanks! You mean rebooting in Parallels? I suppose there were no such problems with 8 GB ... ?
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 06:03 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by justperry View Post
All good except you can have read write access to a Mac formatted disk from Windows in bootcamp if you install software like MacDrive.
It's weird because I don't have any program like MacFusion, yet, I can read and copy files from Bootcamp while in Lion, and I can copy files from the Mac if I'm in bootcamp. Which I cannot do, is deleting files, which is possible with MacFuse (or the one you mention). Even with internal disks, formatted in Mac OS with registry, works

Peor, there is no incompatibly between 64 or 32 bits, but, if you want to use Photoshop in Bootamp, then install the 64 bits version of Windows 7 (Win8 still have issues). But you have Photoshop in Mac, the latest version fully functional and super cool; why would be needed to install it in Bootcamp?

Regarding the SSD, I know there are issues with bootcamp, but I haven't red so much.

And most important; if you want to plug an external monitor you need a discrete video card installed in your MacBook Pro, which is only available in the 15" version. You won't be able to use an external monitor in a 13" MBP.

"Sounds nice, but this will not "ruin" the Boot Camp Windows right?"

It won't destroy your existing Bootcamp partition. Parallels only takes the Bootamp partition as the virtual machine but nothing bad happens. And, if you want to delete that virtual machine, Bootcamp remains intact.

Ř3
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 06:22 AM   #12
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Before I forget, I tried installing Windows with bootcamp but I had a 32/64 bit W& version, Bootcamp gave an error, said it needed W7 64 Bit, something to keep in mind.
What I did to bypass this is to use a USB stick with Windows on it and then boot from it, I already made a partition in OS X beforehand, it installed without problems, still have to download the huge Bootcamp drivers though, but even without them windows is useable, the wireless keyboard (Apple) works but not the Trackpad (Apple), and both Wireless and ethernet does not work but I don't need them now.
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 10:23 AM   #13
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Thanks! You mean rebooting in Parallels? I suppose there were no such problems with 8 GB ... ?
Sorry, that was poorly worded. I meant having to reboot into bootcamp to load Windows then reboot again to start OS X.
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 10:58 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by peor View Post
Hi hi Quantum3 just some photoshoping and usual stuff on an external Full HD 24" monitor . I suppose integrated graphic card on MBP13" will be enough?
EDITED & EXPANDED: On my 2012 Retina MacBook Pro, I use Bootcamp and Win 7 and have all my photo processing software in the bootcamp partition and I do all my photo work in Bootcamp Windows 7. I will install Windows 8 as soon as Apple 10.8.3 drivers for Bootcamp are released. I'll get a 2013 Thunderbolt 2 display when it is available. In Bootcamp I have Adobe Creative Suite 5, Lightroom 4 and other photo processing software. It all works fast, flawlessly and effortlessly and I have seen no need for Parallels or Fusion.

Last edited by Gator Bob; Feb 25, 2013 at 06:24 PM.
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 05:04 PM   #15
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Thank you for everything!

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And most important; if you want to plug an external monitor you need a discrete video card installed in your MacBook Pro, which is only available in the 15" version. You won't be able to use an external monitor in a 13" MBP.
Are you 100% sure? Have you tried that? Because I read pretty some comments people successfully connected external monitor to 13" mbp. Also, here are some videos.
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 05:19 PM   #16
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Are you 100% sure? Have you tried that? Because I read pretty some comments people successfully connected external monitor to 13" mbp. Also, here are some videos.
You can connect an external monitor to any Mac. I use this monitor with my 13" MBP. You will just need a miniDP to HDMI/DVI adapter if your Mac doesn't have an HDMI out port.
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 08:12 PM   #17
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You can connect an external monitor to any Mac. I use this monitor with my 13" MBP. You will just need a miniDP to HDMI/DVI adapter if your Mac doesn't have an HDMI out port.
Is that a good monitor for OS X?
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 08:40 PM   #18
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Is that a good monitor for OS X?
It's a very good monitor for the price. After you calibrate it using OS X's built in utility (which will only take a few minutes), the color/picture is fantastic. It's on sale quite often, so keep an eye out if it's something you're interested in - I picked it up for ~$120 after a mail in rebate and promo code discount.

I've also used it with my Xbox 360 and, again, picture is great.
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 09:48 PM   #19
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It's a very good monitor for the price. After you calibrate it using OS X's built in utility (which will only take a few minutes), the color/picture is fantastic. It's on sale quite often, so keep an eye out if it's something you're interested in - I picked it up for ~$120 after a mail in rebate and promo code discount.

I've also used it with my Xbox 360 and, again, picture is great.
Thanks Stooby! Funny name!
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Old Mar 21, 2013, 06:44 PM   #20
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you can have read write access to a Mac formatted disk from Windows in bootcamp if you install software like MacDrive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantum3 View Post
It's weird because I don't have any program like MacFusion, yet, I can read and copy files from Bootcamp while in Lion, and I can copy files from the Mac if I'm in bootcamp. Which I cannot do, is deleting files, which is possible with MacFuse (or the one you mention). Even with internal disks, formatted in Mac OS with registry, works
Indeed. I have contacted Apple support with a question is it possible to edit files in and from Boot Camp and OS X without additional tool (Macdrive) and he said "No additional tool is required".
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