Switching to PPC from high end workstation. Help?

[lucasfer899]

Originally Posted by jchase2057

Guys, he wants a G5. What we think is the best bang for the buck doesn't matter at this point. With that said, I too say get the single pump quad. More reliable based on all of the ones that I have come across.



If 8 monitors are needed then a full on workstation is a must.

Well, I only really got to have 4, but I keep buying more when I see a good deal. (I currently favor Alu ACD's.)

Originally Posted by Wildy

I am curious - what on earth do you do with your eight monitors?! I most I've ever seen utilized on a workstation was a guy at work who somehow managed to convince tech to give him six monitors.

I dont need 8, and I dont have, but I'm making a point about support for that many.

Originally Posted by jchase2057

I see it a lot. When doing remote support you can never have too many displays, tracking live feeds of any kind, monitoring security cameras, etc.

Exactly.

[ybz90]

Originally Posted by lucasfer899

Well, I only really got to have 4, but I keep buying more when I see a good deal. (I currently favor Alu ACD's.)

I dont need 8, and I dont have, but I'm making a point about support for that many.

Exactly.

I'm playing devil's advocate a bit here, but if you don't need 8, you shouldn't really count that as a pro. It should only be a pro if one meets your needs (as stated 4) and the other does not, which in this case, still seems to be true, but I think is worth noting.

Everyone has a different utility function, and weights things differently. I do encourage you to look back at that yes/no list you made earlier and consider which are truly required for you and which are not (for instance, the fiber?). II also encourage you to visit an Apple store if you can and at least try out a Mac Mini to see how speedy it is. I won't tell you not to buy the G5; I have a quad 2.5 and it works fine. Not what I'd call fast (it's slower than my MacBook Air), but it's far from unusable.

That said, really evaluate your *needs* versus conventions/wants and see if a Mini actually doesn't cut it (do you actually use 4 displays as the Mini can drive 3?) or if you're being swayed by potential expandability that you may or may not use. Because if it does or you feel you can adjust, I think the speed increase is pretty substantial (imho at least).

Also, something to think about, what size and resolution are your monitors? It's costlier, but you might also want to consider getting fewer higher resolution displays. I went from 4x1080p at 22" to 2x1440p at 27" and my productivity skyrocketed. More smaller screens, for me at least, was much worse than a single, larger screen. If you're using even smaller than 1080p, this is another way you could upgrade your setup and extract more productivity. I know the aluminum ACDs still have great resale value, so while they aren't as pretty, I'd recommend trading up for minimal (or even make money?) cost to either a Korean/Monoprice QHD display (~equivalent to a Thunderbolt display) or if you can find one for <600, a 27" ACD/TB display. As I said, in my own experience, one 27" >>> 2x22".

EDIT: Also, I know this isn't what you asked, but if can I ask what you don't like about Windows' monitor management? If it's the lack of an extensible start bar, there are great programs for that, which also feature good screen management. On the whole, I find Windows better than Mac for handling multiple screens. A cheap solution to the noise on your PC is to buy a fan controller, which can be had very cheap, and set them lower.

[cjmillsnun]

Originally Posted by rabidz7

Emulator worked a week ago before partition corrupted.

*sniff sniff* I can smell your BS from here!

[MisterKeeks]

Originally Posted by cjmillsnun

*sniff sniff* I can smell your BS from here!

I'm sure you can, but let's not go down this road again.

[lucasfer899]

Originally Posted by ybz90

I'm playing devil's advocate a bit here, but if you don't need 8, you shouldn't really count that as a pro. It should only be a pro if one meets your needs (as stated 4) and the other does not, which in this case, still seems to be true, but I think is worth noting.

I just like to have things like spots for extra monitors there for future proofing, since should I move my setup to the games room in my house, (of which is being built), it would need to be able to connect to an additional two displays, a 1080p tv, and a projector.
But yeah, I won't count it.

Originally Posted by ybz90

Everyone has a different utility function, and weights things differently. I do encourage you to look back at that yes/no list you made earlier and consider which are truly required for you and which are not (for instance, the fiber?). II also encourage you to visit an Apple store if you can and at least try out a Mac Mini to see how speedy it is. I won't tell you not to buy the G5; I have a quad 2.5 and it works fine. Not what I'd call fast (it's slower than my MacBook Air), but it's far from unusable.

The fiber is just something I was looking into, and I was just curious. I know I don't need to have it, but I was looking into fiber based solutions, because it would be nice to have everything of which is mine, offloaded from the network onto something more local to me, again tieing in with the issues with the network switches and so on.
I have tried out the mini's, and I really like them, however I prefer to have a full tower with substantial expansion. A quad G5 can be slower than your air, but it really depends what you're doing.

Originally Posted by ybz90

That said, really evaluate your *needs* versus conventions/wants and see if a Mini actually doesn't cut it (do you actually use 4 displays as the Mini can drive 3?) or if you're being swayed by potential expandability that you may or may not use. Because if it does or you feel you can adjust, I think the speed increase is pretty substantial (imho at least).

Yes, I really drive 4 displays, yes I really need them, yes I keep that many things open at once.

Originally Posted by ybz90

Also, something to think about, what size and resolution are your monitors? It's costlier, but you might also want to consider getting fewer higher resolution displays. I went from 4x1080p at 22" to 2x1440p at 27" and my productivity skyrocketed. More smaller screens, for me at least, was much worse than a single, larger screen. If you're using even smaller than 1080p, this is another way you could upgrade your setup and extract more productivity. I know the aluminum ACDs still have great resale value, so while they aren't as pretty, I'd recommend trading up for minimal (or even make money?) cost to either a Korean/Monoprice QHD display (~equivalent to a Thunderbolt display) or if you can find one for <600, a 27" ACD/TB display. As I said, in my own experience, one 27" >>> 2x22".

Oh lord, I've been in one of these debates many times, I personally work best with multiple smaller displays, I'm currently sitting on 20" Alu ACD's. I have had larger displays in the past, but it doesn't really suit me, as I prefer to split up my workflow/ things I'm doing, across each display.
My productivity plummets using less, larger displays, as I get things all mixed up.

Originally Posted by ybz90

EDIT: Also, I know this isn't what you asked, but if can I ask what you don't like about Windows' monitor management? If it's the lack of an extensible start bar, there are great programs for that, which also feature good screen management. On the whole, I find Windows better than Mac for handling multiple screens. A cheap solution to the noise on your PC is to buy a fan controller, which can be had very cheap, and set them lower.

[/QUOTE]
It's not the fact that the start bar, I have used eyefinity before, and it's not about the start bar, there's something about it that makes it worse for me, and I can't work it out. Yes, I know about the fan controller route, I built this PC myself. The motherboard is meant to be controlling them, however it fails.

[ybz90]

Originally Posted by lucasfer899

Yes, I really drive 4 displays, yes I really need them, yes I keep that many things open at once.


Oh lord, I've been in one of these debates many times, I personally work best with multiple smaller displays, I'm currently sitting on 20" Alu ACD's. I have had larger displays in the past, but it doesn't really suit me, as I prefer to split up my workflow/ things I'm doing, across each display.
My productivity plummets using less, larger displays, as I get things all mixed up.

To each his own, and you know what works best for you better than anyone else does. I just wanted to float out some other options for you to consider, especially since the Intel Macs today are so powerful, the tradeoff for that might be worth another look.

[lucasfer899]

Originally Posted by ybz90

To each his own, and you know what works best for you better than anyone else does. I just wanted to float out some other options for you to consider, especially since the Intel Macs today are so powerful, the tradeoff for that might be worth another look.

It's fine, and as you say, to each his own, thank you however for putting those ideas out there. But I really do want a G5,

[lucasfer899]

Originally Posted by Giuly

Keep in mind that Thunderbolt is just PCIe, attached externally via a cable.

However it is only PCIe x4, I can't shove a GPU into that (I can, but the performance wont be up to par).

Also, the 7800 GTX is better than the GPU's in the new mini's :3

[Lil Chillbil]

Originally Posted by lucasfer899

However it is only PCIe x4, I can't shove a GPU into that (I can, but the performance wont be up to par).

Also, the 7800 GTX is better than the GPU's in the new mini's :3

I can attest that it is not

[lucasfer899]

Originally Posted by Lil Chillbil

I can attest that it is not

I can attest, that as a matter of fact, it is. Image is clickable for larger.

[Giuly]

Originally Posted by lucasfer899

However it is only PCIe x4, I can't shove a GPU into that (I can, but the performance wont be up to par).

Also, the 7800 GTX is better than the GPU's in the new mini's :3

Actually, it's the other way around - it doesn't really matter whether you connect it via PCIe x4 or PCIe x8, but you can't add graphics cards via Thunderbolt - yet.


I forgot that the 2012 doesn't have dedicated graphics anymore, but lets see what Haswell brings. The dedicated graphics of the 2011 would be faster than the 7800GTX, though.

[Lil Chillbil]

Originally Posted by lucasfer899

I can attest, that as a matter of fact, it is. Image is clickable for larger.
Image

A mac mini with 16 gigs of rams graphics performance would beat out your g5 in every way possible, that chart is comparing a baseline minis graphics performance it can have up to a gig of graphics vram

[jchase2057]

Originally Posted by Lil Chillbil

A mac mini with 16 gigs of rams graphics performance would beat out your g5 in every way possible, that chart is comparing a baseline minis graphics performance it can have up to a gig of graphics vram

I'm not disagreeing with you, but he wants a G5. Obviously a new mini would smoke it, but he wants the machine he wants. Let's just focus on helping him with the best PPC setup he can get and pretend apple stopped making desktops in 2005.

[Lil Chillbil]

Originally Posted by jchase2057

I'm not disagreeing with you, but he wants a G5. Obviously a new mini would smoke it, but he wants the machine he wants. Let's just focus on helping him with the best PPC setup he can get and pretend apple stopped making desktops in 2005.

Ok just give me a second to get into character, cough, cough

"well hey guys I was just doing some encoding on my sweet g5 quad while I wait for the next leopard update and the new episode of two and a half men"

[jchase2057]

Originally Posted by Lil Chillbil

Ok just give me a second to get into character, cough, cough

"well hey guys I was just doing some encoding on my sweet g5 quad while I wait for the next leopard update and the new episode of two and a half men"

Lol. That's more like it.

[ybz90]

Here's an issue that hasn't really been broached yet. Since the OP is dead set on a G5 no matter what, has he stated what his budget is or how much he is willing to pay for one? It is definitely not wise to invest too much into that system at this age and time.

[jchase2057]

Originally Posted by ybz90

Here's an issue that hasn't really been broached yet. Since the OP is dead set on a G5 no matter what, has he stated what his budget is or how much he is willing to pay for one? It is definitely not wise to invest too much into that system at this age and time.

We don't know his budget, but it's obvious he doesn't want the most bang for his buck. I get it. I have machines that I love despite their age (Optiplex GX280 SFF and my Sawtooth for example). I have spent stupid amounts of money on them both. 120 bucks on an AGP GPU last year was not very cost effective. It is awesome though. The only thing I dont understand is he wants it as a work machine. But whatever makes him most productive is what he should buy.

[Nameci]

If he wanted the best bang for his buck, he won't be posting in this forum.

[Lil Chillbil]

Originally Posted by Nameci

If he wanted the best bang for his buck, he won't be posting in this forum.

I agree if he wanted the best bang for his buck he would buy a core 2 duo imac

[MisterKeeks]

Can we just agree that he will get a Quad G5 w/16Gb of RAM, add a 7800GTX, either move the 6600 to a different slot or replace it, have his monitors, a G5, and be happy?

[jchase2057]

Originally Posted by MisterKeeks

Can we just agree that he will get a Quad G5 w/16Gb of RAM, add a 7800GTX, either move the 6600 to a different slot or replace it, have his monitors, a G5, and be happy?

Not a bad setup imo.

[Intell]

For future reference, I'd like to post this:

Currently, only SnowLeopard (10.6) works. Leopard (10.5) used to work with QEMU v.0.10.6, but is no longer supported. Work is in progress to get (Mountain)Lion (10.7 and 10.8) to boot in QEMU/KVM.

Source: http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~somlo/OSXKVM/ (The guy that maintains QEMU)

Also, don't forget a newer Intell HD 4000 is better than a 7800 GTX in the sense that it can do OpenGL 3.0+ and DirectX 10+. Not to mention its other computational and encoding/decoding abilities.

[rabidz7]

Originally Posted by MisterKeeks

Can we just agree that he will get a Quad G5 w/16Gb of RAM, add a 7800GTX, either move the 6600 to a different slot or replace it, have his monitors, a G5, and be happy?

A 6600 will work in an X8 slot?!

[lucasfer899]

Originally Posted by Giuly

Actually, it's the other way around - it doesn't really matter whether you connect it via PCIe x4 or PCIe x8, but you can't add graphics cards via Thunderbolt - yet.
Image

I forgot that the 2012 doesn't have dedicated graphics anymore, but lets see what Haswell brings. The dedicated graphics of the 2011 would be faster than the 7800GTX, though.

The Dedi in a 2011 mini would be better yes. :3
There are in fact some solutions for thunderbolt GPU's, and they're said to work well. I'm excited to see what haswell brings, maybe Intel HD 5000 will finally be half decent?
That's whats holding me off of ultrabooks at the moment, I like to keep a dedi GPU in my notebooks, (2010MBP, GeForce 320m, OC'd.)

Originally Posted by Lil Chillbil

A mac mini with 16 gigs of rams graphics performance would beat out your g5 in every way possible, that chart is comparing a baseline minis graphics performance it can have up to a gig of graphics vram

Okay ^.^

Originally Posted by jchase2057

I'm not disagreeing with you, but he wants a G5. Obviously a new mini would smoke it, but he wants the machine he wants. Let's just focus on helping him with the best PPC setup he can get and pretend apple stopped making desktops in 2005.

Finally, someone with sense! lol
But yeah, I want to go the PowerPC route, I like to tinker with things, and I want to see how I can manage my workflow around such an old architecture, sort of an experiment.

Originally Posted by Lil Chillbil

Ok just give me a second to get into character, cough, cough

"well hey guys I was just doing some encoding on my sweet g5 quad while I wait for the next leopard update and the new episode of two and a half men"

aahhahahaha, funny because I havent really watched two and a half men, and thats probably one of the shows that I'll be catching up on with this machine

Originally Posted by ybz90

Here's an issue that hasn't really been broached yet. Since the OP is dead set on a G5 no matter what, has he stated what his budget is or how much he is willing to pay for one? It is definitely not wise to invest too much into that system at this age and time.

Around £350 for a quad G5 + RAM, gpu is on top of that if necessary.
Obviously, though, a cheaper deal popping up on ebay or gumtree wouldn't be a shame.

Originally Posted by jchase2057

We don't know his budget, but it's obvious he doesn't want the most bang for his buck. I get it. I have machines that I love despite their age (Optiplex GX280 SFF and my Sawtooth for example). I have spent stupid amounts of money on them both. 120 bucks on an AGP GPU last year was not very cost effective. It is awesome though. The only thing I dont understand is he wants it as a work machine. But whatever makes him most productive is what he should buy.

120 on an AGP GPU , they're getting more expensive, hence why I want a PCIe PMG5 ^-^

Originally Posted by Nameci

If he wanted the best bang for his buck, he won't be posting in this forum.

I'd be going on amazon and building an i5 box with 16GB ram and a beast GPU fr around £500-600

Originally Posted by Lil Chillbil

I agree if he wanted the best bang for his buck he would buy a core 2 duo imac

Nah, if I wanted a bang for my buck Mac, I'd probably go with an older i3/i5 21.5" iMac.

Originally Posted by MisterKeeks

Can we just agree that he will get a Quad G5 w/16Gb of RAM, add a 7800GTX, either move the 6600 to a different slot or replace it, have his monitors, a G5, and be happy?

Woaaahhhh, spot on, sir!
I'll post pics when I get everything set up, probably be around late march

Well, can't I do DUAL 7800GTX's?

Originally Posted by jchase2057

Not a bad setup imo.

Thank you :3

Originally Posted by Intell

For future reference, I'd like to post this:



Source: http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~somlo/OSXKVM/ (The guy that maintains QEMU)

Also, don't forget a newer Intell HD 4000 is better than a 7800 GTX in the sense that it can do OpenGL 3.0+ and DirectX 10+. Not to mention its other computational and encoding/decoding abilities.

Shh, benchmarks, young one. *pats back gently*

[GermanyChris]

Originally Posted by lucasfer899

The Dedi in a 2011 mini would be better yes. :3
There are in fact some solutions for thunderbolt GPU's, and they're said to work well. I'm excited to see what haswell brings, maybe Intel HD 5000 will finally be half decent?
That's whats holding me off of ultrabooks at the moment, I like to keep a dedi GPU in my notebooks, (2010MBP, GeForce 320m, OC'd.)


Okay ^.^


Finally, someone with sense! lol
But yeah, I want to go the PowerPC route, I like to tinker with things, and I want to see how I can manage my workflow around such an old architecture, sort of an experiment.


aahhahahaha, funny because I havent really watched two and a half men, and thats probably one of the shows that I'll be catching up on with this machine

Around £350 for a quad G5 + RAM, gpu is on top of that if necessary.
Obviously, though, a cheaper deal popping up on ebay or gumtree wouldn't be a shame.


120 on an AGP GPU , they're getting more expensive, hence why I want a PCIe PMG5 ^-^


I'd be going on amazon and building an i5 box with 16GB ram and a beast GPU fr around £500-600


Nah, if I wanted a bang for my buck Mac, I'd probably go with an older i3/i5 21.5" iMac.


Woaaahhhh, spot on, sir!
I'll post pics when I get everything set up, probably be around late march

Well, can't I do DUAL 7800GTX's?


Thank you :3



Shh, benchmarks, young one. *pats back gently*

uh oh intell is not young one.