Mac Pro Now Unavailable for Purchase from European Apple Online Stores

rmsrnn · Mar 3, 2013

I'm a PRO user, my main work is 3d planning, design and high end architectural rendering.
I rely on RAM and need fast cpu's. It gets my work done and I need it done fast.

I'm considering alternatives to mac pro at this time, mine is 3 years old and compared to other computers on the market (wich also my competitors in getting 3d stuff done use) are simply faster in getting the job done.

I've been an apple fan since 1984 when I was given the first mac, 512K version with external floppy drive. Used Apple since then.

But... I don't get what i need any more. Already left my iphone, considering a different tablet and at the end I'll be forced to change workstation. Not happy to do so, but will. Obviously, once I fix my software licenses and stuff I will not be coming back. Sorry Apple.

flat five · Mar 3, 2013

rmsrnn said:
I'm a PRO user, my main work is 3d planning, design and high end architectural rendering.
I rely on RAM and need fast cpu's. It gets my work done and I need it done fast.

what applications are you using that you're running out of ram with? (and how much ram do you have?)

re: cpu speed.. yeah, i'd love to see a single core 10ghz cpu or something like that for modeling but i don't think that's apple's fault..
their available clock speeds are the same as everyone else's (or very close)

rmsrnn · Mar 3, 2013

flat five said:
what applications are you using that you're running out of ram with? (and how much ram do you have?)

re: cpu speed.. yeah, i'd love to see a single core 10ghz cpu or something like that for modeling but i don't think that's apple's fault..
their available clock speeds are the same as everyone else's (or very close)

It's just my point of view. I use C4D+vray for rendering. Archicad for architectural planning. C4d and vary scenes are ram consuming. Got 24 Gb ram at the moment and yet sometimes my system happens to swap on hard disk. In my experience 3d vegetation and displacement are the most ram killing options. while there are shortcuts for trees (e.g. use low poly for background, postproduction in PS, etc.) displacing does really get ram since it changes the geometry based on a grey tone map. For *me* an imac is not enough.

I'd like a new and fast Mac Pro. But if i'm not getting it what other choices have I got? I need a workstation. Uptime is weeks, while I'm writing on my MacBook Pro the mac Pro is rendering a series of images and it will do it all day and night till tomorrow. It can take any workload and I don't have to worry.

These are *my* needs as a pro and I feel I am not getting what I need to get work done. A friend of mine which happens to work in Berlin just got for himself a powerful PC, 48 Gb ram, 8 core double processors, high end video cards (macs seem to have a lack of choice lately on video cards) And gets his work done in less than half of what I can do.
Will I still be competitive? In the long run, in a field where others have faster computers, I will have to keep my power up to date.

flat five · Mar 4, 2013

rmsrnn said:
It's just my point of view.

no, i hear you.. if you're worried that macs won't handle your situations into the future then surely you must move on.. if anything, it's not a very healthy way to work if you have a constant worry about your tools in the back of your mind..

i was just curious if you've run into situations where you were actually running out of ram or if you were just starting to bump into it's limits.. (and wondering about the software too because some 3D apps are still 32bit which is generally fine (or even beneficial to an extent) if you're staying in the app but can open up a world of problems when bringing in a rendering plugin etc.)..

i dont use c4d but i'm pretty sure it's now 64 bit and you shouldn't be running out of ram as a result of the software itself in which case, yes, it's logical to look at the actual hardware as a point of breakdown..

i make movies · Mar 4, 2013

rmsrnn said:
I'd like a new and fast Mac Pro.

I hear you loud and clear.

Just curious, which graphics card do you have on your MacPro? I bought a GTX570 from MacVidCards on ebay. He flashes the EFI on PC cards to use in Macs. I use DaVinci Resolve so I needed a card with lots of CUDA cores and it works like gangbusters. So fast, but with your line of work of high-res 3D rendering, I'm not sure which card would best suite you.

Another option is to upgrade the CPUs. It's terribly, terribly expensive, but that option is there. Only works on 2010 MacPro (5,1)

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/turnkey/MacPro/2010_Xeon_Processor

rmsrnn · Mar 5, 2013

I own a 2009 mac pro (4.1). No upgrade available for me

At the moment i mount this video card:
NVIDIA GeForce GT 120

I wouldn't know if it's worth spending money (a lot of money) to upgrade a 4 years old computer. It's at the end of it's working cycle. I could wait till this fall but then a time for a change will be necessary.

i make movies · Mar 5, 2013

rmsrnn said:
At the moment i mount this video card:
NVIDIA GeForce GT 120

I wouldn't give up on a upgrade just yet. A new video card could breathe new life into your tower. Email/research the technical support of the makers of the software you use and ask them if an ATI card or Nvidia card would be better.

For an ATI card, there's this

https://www.macrumors.com/2013/03/0...d-7950-mac-edition-graphics-card-for-mac-pro/

FOr an nVidia card, there's this

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nvidia-GTX-...678?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item3ccf50dfee

digitalgum · Mar 30, 2013

TheMacPotato said:
The date Apple officially abandoned it's Pro users in Europe.

Thanks Apple and goodbye.

Thankfully we have resellers who support us even tho apple give them such a small profit margin it almost doesn't pay to do so!!!

I just checked dabs and they have 77 12-core's in stock for £2911inc vat

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rmsrnn said:
It's just my point of view. I use C4D+vray for rendering. Archicad for architectural planning. C4d and vary scenes are ram consuming. Got 24 Gb ram at the moment and yet sometimes my system happens to swap on hard disk. In my experience 3d vegetation and displacement are the most ram killing options. while there are shortcuts for trees (e.g. use low poly for background, postproduction in PS, etc.) displacing does really get ram since it changes the geometry based on a grey tone map. For *me* an imac is not enough.

I'd like a new and fast Mac Pro. But if i'm not getting it what other choices have I got? I need a workstation. Uptime is weeks, while I'm writing on my MacBook Pro the mac Pro is rendering a series of images and it will do it all day and night till tomorrow. It can take any workload and I don't have to worry.

These are *my* needs as a pro and I feel I am not getting what I need to get work done. A friend of mine which happens to work in Berlin just got for himself a powerful PC, 48 Gb ram, 8 core double processors, high end video cards (macs seem to have a lack of choice lately on video cards) And gets his work done in less than half of what I can do.
Will I still be competitive? In the long run, in a field where others have faster computers, I will have to keep my power up to date.

OSX 10.8.3 now out supporting Opengl Nvidia cards with over 2gb in size AND 12-core Mac Pro's and you can easily install 96Gb 1066 ECC Ram which the Mac Pro will recognise (friend of mine has a 2.26ghz 8-core nehalem 2009 with 96GB installed). C4D with vray would be a breeze mate!

You have options still!

Squilly · Mar 30, 2013

prowlmedia said:
Hmm,

I have 64GB Ram 12Core, 3 Displays - 6TB on board + 256 ssd drive. + 2gb 285GTX ( hacked PC custom boot rom thing )

It's kinda quick. And handle 24 thread rendering.

and as the other guy said... if you have to ask why, then you don't need to know

Who would ever need 64gb RAM? I struggle using up 16gb on my rMBP.

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rmsrnn said:
I'm a PRO user, my main work is 3d planning, design and high end architectural rendering.
I rely on RAM and need fast cpu's. It gets my work done and I need it done fast.

I'm considering alternatives to mac pro at this time, mine is 3 years old and compared to other computers on the market (wich also my competitors in getting 3d stuff done use) are simply faster in getting the job done.

I've been an apple fan since 1984 when I was given the first mac, 512K version with external floppy drive. Used Apple since then.

But... I don't get what i need any more. Already left my iphone, considering a different tablet and at the end I'll be forced to change workstation. Not happy to do so, but will. Obviously, once I fix my software licenses and stuff I will not be coming back. Sorry Apple.

Get a newer computer and run OS X on it...?

Shrink · Mar 30, 2013

Squilly said:
Who would ever need 64gb RAM? I struggle using up 16gb on my rMBP.

This is based on the assumption that since a power user like you only needs 16 gb, you cannot imagine that anyone might need more.

Think real hard, and use your imagination...I'm sure you'll figure out why someone might conceivably need more than 16 gb of RAM.

Renzatic · Mar 30, 2013

Squilly said:
Get a newer computer and run OS X on it...?

Not for a pro environment. Hackintoshing is a fun hobby, and a lot of people do use it without any problems. But when it's tied to your job, you have no 3rd party software or hardware support, and every update could break potentially something, requiring time out of your busy day to fix, it's not something you'd want to rely on.

deconstruct60 · Mar 30, 2013

Squilly said:
Who would ever need 64gb RAM? I struggle using up 16gb on my rMBP.

It depends upon the objects being processed in the workflow. 64GB is large enough to be in the rarefied zone though for a single person workstation. However, there is difference between working on

a. 24 600MB photos ( ~ 14GB )

and

b. running 12 threads that need 3GB each ( ~36GB )
[ If have 12 thread that all need lots of data and produce lots of data things will go faster if just load it all up into memory and crank till finished. 12 threads all contentiously going into storage will hit bottleneck, yes even with SSDs if spending most of the time in very tight computational loops that steadily consume new data than what just processed. ]

It also isn't all that hard if running 3 Virtual machines with 8GB allocated to each along as a several apps in OS X space.

GermanyChris · Mar 30, 2013

Squilly said:
Who would ever need 64gb RAM? I struggle using up 16gb on my rMBP.

----------

Get a newer computer and run OS X on it...?

apparently you you and that poster are doing different things. hence the workstation vs notebook

deconstruct60 · Mar 30, 2013

rmsrnn said:
I own a 2009 mac pro (4.1). No upgrade available for me

At the moment i mount this video card:
NVIDIA GeForce GT 120

Folks are pointing at hardware upgrades but perhaps should consider some software upgrades also. Rendering on a GPU via OpenCL ( or Nvidia's CUDA) is increasingly going to drive a larger gap between what you are doing with that GT 120 card and what others are doing. That you are "OK" with that card is indicative that your software is lacking behind the times (or that there are optional plugins/updates that not leveraging, e.g., a OpenCL Vray that works with what you have).

Computational "horsepower" isn't the exclusive domain of CPU x86 cores anymore. (e.g., the GT 120 theoretical max GFLOPs is around 130 and the new OS X aware 7950 add-in card announced is around 2800 GLOPs. )

I wouldn't know if it's worth spending money (a lot of money) to upgrade a 4 years old computer. It's at the end of it's working cycle. I could wait till this fall but then a time for a change will be necessary.

A leading edge GPU card would likely fit in a future Mac Pro also. Upgrades that can be transferred are more spending costs out over time than a "sunk" cost that disappears if retire the 2009 model.

Alternatively you may want to keep the this model a computational batch job node even if do get another box. ( depends if work would 'spill over' or not if got newer faster box. )

Apple could shot itself in the foot some more by waiting till Fall to release something new, but they may not. In the mean time you can figure out what the migration costs of moving off OS X would be.

tekboi · Mar 30, 2013

pretty sure it means nothing...
q

milo · Apr 1, 2013

Squilly said:
Who would ever need 64gb RAM?

Audio production, particularly with huge orchestral sample libraries. Real time performance benefits from lots and lots of ram.

prowlmedia · Apr 1, 2013

Squilly said:
Who would ever need 64gb RAM? I struggle using up 16gb on my rMBP.

3D Rendering Massive 20,000 pixel images require some hefty Ram but that is rare.

Mainly for rendering After Effects with multi processors requires 3gb+ per core or Thread.

AE sees the 12 cores as 24 threads = 72gb Ram ideally! So I am actually only Using 20 Threads. Less if I have other apps open.

Also Nuke works in the same way - Even more so if you are working with 4K Red footage.

So.. there ya go!

FluJunkie · Apr 1, 2013

Squilly said:
Who would ever need 64gb RAM? I struggle using up 16gb on my rMBP.

It's not actually all that hard. I've hit tasks that max out 256 GB of RAM. Fortunately, I have access to servers with even more RAM than that.

AidenShaw · Apr 2, 2013

prowlmedia said:
3D Rendering Massive 20,000 pixel images require some hefty Ram but that is rare.

20K pixels is 160pixels by 120pixels.

Perhaps a typo? ;O

SeaFox · Apr 2, 2013

AidenShaw said:
20K pixels is 160pixels by 120pixels.

Perhaps a typo? ;O

Maybe he's a designer for the post office.

prowlmedia · Apr 3, 2013

AidenShaw said:
20K pixels is 160pixels by 120pixels.
Perhaps a typo? ;O

SeaFox said:
Maybe he's a designer for the post office.

Ha! Nice...

20K wide....for multi screen video presentations or building projections.

19800 x 3240 pixels to be exact... 10 x 3 HD screens for a show

Doing one at the moment in fact that is 18 wide x 4 !!! but not got as far as rendering yet. I do the test renders on my mini farm and will send it out to Rebusfarm for the animation... as it will about 20,000 frames!!

milo · Apr 3, 2013

Nope, that's not how the law works.

AidenShaw · Apr 3, 2013

prowlmedia said:
Ha! Nice...

20K wide....for multi screen video presentations or building projections.

19800 x 3240 pixels to be exact... 10 x 3 HD screens for a show

Doing one at the moment in fact that is 18 wide x 4 !!! but not got as far as rendering yet. I do the test renders on my mini farm and will send it out to Rebusfarm for the animation... as it will about 20,000 frames!!

Nice save - you just forgot the word "wide"

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