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Apple Faces Patent Lawsuit Over Siri in China

cgsnipinva

cgsnipinva

macrumors 6502
Jan 29, 2013
494
446
Leesburg, VA
I would look real hard at the specifics of these patents

They "may" have invented this in 2004 but I doubt. I have studied and worked with Chinese software developers and they copy. Two of them got caught cheating during an exam in one of my data structure classes.

I would bet money they had a "rudimentary" form of this software in 2004 - they patented it (but I would make sure they didn't take if from somewhere else) and would make them prove where the infringements took place.

I would also bet this is part of a larger effort to attack successful American companies and try to take pieces of their intellectual property.

I would not count on a fair trial in China. I remember IBM pulling out of plans for an expansion of their chip manufacturing in China because of fears of getting IP and technology several years ago and simply expanding their chip manufacturing operations in East Fish Kills, NY.

I have no faith that the Chinese invented this. They cannot be trusted. Period.

I also don't care if for the "they make things for you" - We invested there and built operations there to build our stuff - not based on native Chinese investment.

If this continued - we should divest from China slowly and methodically.

----------
Did a little digging found out that siri started at sri as a project funded by darpa in 2003, the company siri was started in 2007 and there voice assistant was patented then, apple bought siri out in April 2010. The original iphone app was released in 2009 to the iOS ap store and ceased to function October 11, 2011, and was replaced by the integrated siri app from apple when the iPhone 4s was announced. This patent troll has no prior right to this idea. Apple can prove it without a doubt. The above info is available on the darpa website and from sri's website.
Click to expand...

Invented by DARPA - Which probably had Chinese spies involved - so the Chicoms can pound sand as there are reams of documents showing this to be a DoD invention and nothing to do with the Chinese vaporware.

Apple should win this one easily - as long as the Chinese "courts" are not rigged.
 
D

Drewski

macrumors regular
Jan 6, 2011
161
28
Somewhere else
cgsnipinva said:
They "may" have invented this in 2004 but I doubt. I have studied and worked with Chinese software developers and they copy. Two of them got caught cheating during an exam in one of my data structure classes.

I would bet money they had a "rudimentary" form of this software in 2004 - they patented it (but I would make sure they didn't take if from somewhere else) and would make them prove where the infringements took place.

I would also bet this is part of a larger effort to attack successful American companies and try to take pieces of their intellectual property.

I would not count on a fair trial in China. I remember IBM pulling out of plans for an expansion of their chip manufacturing in China because of fears of getting IP and technology several years ago and simply expanding their chip manufacturing operations in East Fish Kills, NY.

I have no faith that the Chinese invented this. They cannot be trusted. Period.

I also don't care if for the "they make things for you" - We invested there and built operations there to build our stuff - not based on native Chinese investment.

If this continued - we should divest from China slowly and methodically.

----------



Invented by DARPA - Which probably had Chinese spies involved - so the Chicoms can pound sand as there are reams of documents showing this to be a DoD invention and nothing to do with the Chinese vaporware.

Apple should win this one easily - as long as the Chinese "courts" are not rigged.
Click to expand...

That last line gets a big LOL.

I absolutely agree, based on first hand experience. After working there for the last 5 years, not to mention being instrumental in establishing a foothold for (more) Chinese business in the US, I became much too cynical, distrustful, and frankly embarrassed by the general lack of business ethics (specifically on the government/corporate level) to continue doing it. I actually quit on those grounds, without a parachute, I got so fed up. (anybody hiring? ;) )

Chinese people? In general, I'd say tough, hard working, (often) wise, humble, helpful, pragmatic, committed, (heck, I married one!) with a rich history and colorful culture. Chinese business? Poisonous, primitive, and utterly rotten with gov't-rewarded corruption. Perfectly indicative of the State. Lie, cheat, steal, and stab any back necessary to make yourself look better.

That boy has cried wolf way too many times for me to ever believe.
 
Ping Guo

Ping Guo

macrumors 6502
Oct 5, 2008
349
0
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Me: "Xiaoi, please look up movie listings for tonight."

Xiaoi: "Pssst, hey mista, you want ladybag? Gucci Plada RV?

Me: :"Ummm no just the movies please."

Xiaoi: "Massagey?"

Me: "Xiaoi, are you listening to me?"

Xiaoi: "Special massagey with happy ending?"

Me: "Oh for chr... *sigh* No Xiaoi, I want to go to the movies."

Xiaoi:"DVD cheapa plice? Yellow movie?

Me: Forget it, I'll look it up myself. P*ss off Xiaoi."

Xiaoi: "Aieeeyahhhh!"
 
G

gmiller744

macrumors newbie
Mar 21, 2012
9
35
HobeSoundDarryl said:
What, 14 posts and no...
-"Die Shanghai Zhi Zhen Internet Technology. Die" or
-"Apple should just buy Shanghai Zhi Zhen Internet Technology" or
-someone making some conspiracy connection that Samsung is probably behind this.

Of course, there is already the usual pro-Apple posts making this company out to be another idea thief ignoring that they had a patent on this technology BEFORE there was an iPhone gen 1. I know that many of us think that only Apple can innovate anything and that the time something is actually patented only matters when Apple is the one who actually patented something first but other companies can innovate and time to the patent office benefits whichever company gets there first. Apple "innovating" something later doesn't automatically make something created years ago some theft of Apple innovation (they would have needed to time travel into the future to see the Siri "innovation" to do that).

Get over yourselves. Sometimes other companies invent good things before Apple. If they build a Siri-like thing first, they deserve their rewards just as if Apple built some feature first and someone copies them later. Why is the patent system stupid & outdated when it works against Apple but celebrated when it works for Apple?
Click to expand...

It's impossible for this company to have a patent on a smartphone system similar to Siri before smartphones even existed (2004, long before iPhone came around, and long before other smart phones either). Get over yourself, and use a little common sense. Whatever patent they have, it would look absolutely nothing like what their product became several years later, when (entirely unknown to them) new technology completely changed the format of information access.
 
macs4nw

macs4nw

macrumors 601
Sep 21, 2010
4,336
1,933
Next-door from the little old lady from Pasadena..
ihuman:D said:
.....Everyone wants a byte of the Apple pie.
Click to expand...

Looking at the timelines of Siri under Dag Kittlaus et al, and Siri after April 2010 and specifically after October 2011 when Siri was implemented on iPhone 4S, you have to wonder about Zhi Zhen's motivations with this lawsuit. If they had this patent as far back as 2006, why didn't they go after Siri's founders when Siri was just an App on the App Store, and well before Siri was acquired by APPLE. Could it be because APPLE has taken this arguably rather obscure technology and made it more mainstream, or because APPLE has deeper pockets? One has to wonder.....
 
MacDav

MacDav

macrumors 65816
Mar 24, 2004
1,031
0
Winni said:
That doesn't really surprise me, because the American understanding of "intellectual property rights" is about as idiotic as it gets. There shouldn't be such a thing in the first place, because all it does is get in the way of invention and innovation. Just imagine Italy would hold a patent on the Roman alphabet or an Arabic country would hold the patent on their numbers - we wouldn't be allowed to hold this online conversation right now because we would be infringing on their patents and would have to invent an own alphabet.

The whole "intellectual property" system is absurd and should be abolished yesterday.
Click to expand...

Wrong. Even if the Alphabet or Arabic numerals were able to be patented at those historical times, Patents only last for 20 years. So it would all be "Public Domain" and we would be able to use them all we want to. While the patent system needs an overhaul, not to have any I.P. protection would mean the rich and powerful could steal any invention and put the original inventor out of business. Great Idea you have there. :rolleyes:
 
Solomani

Solomani

macrumors 601
Sep 25, 2012
4,785
10,477
Slapfish, North Carolina
turtlez said:
I can see the similarities sure. But Android copies a hell of a lot closer than what Apple did of that and when they do this people just say Apple is a crying baby. Funny how only the best company gets bashed under all circumstances.

I wonder why Oletros isn't all over this thread like other legal situations? ;)
Click to expand...

Give it time. He won't pass up this opportunity. His ilk always want Apple to fail. Heck they even want Lawyers to WIN and be successful beautiful much-loved people, just as long as they have a hand suing Apple for billions. :D
 
dontpannic

dontpannic

macrumors 6502
May 16, 2011
460
4
Orpington, Kent, UK
Makes a change that a Chinese company is suing for copyright...

We'll just forget the mountain of fake, ripped off iPads, iPhones, sunglasses, bags, coffee shops, cars shall we?
 
cgsnipinva

cgsnipinva

macrumors 6502
Jan 29, 2013
494
446
Leesburg, VA
Drewski said:
That last line gets a big LOL.

I absolutely agree, based on first hand experience. After working there for the last 5 years, not to mention being instrumental in establishing a foothold for (more) Chinese business in the US, I became much too cynical, distrustful, and frankly embarrassed by the general lack of business ethics (specifically on the government/corporate level) to continue doing it. I actually quit on those grounds, without a parachute, I got so fed up. (anybody hiring? ;) )

Chinese people? In general, I'd say tough, hard working, (often) wise, humble, helpful, pragmatic, committed, (heck, I married one!) with a rich history and colorful culture. Chinese business? Poisonous, primitive, and utterly rotten with gov't-rewarded corruption. Perfectly indicative of the State. Lie, cheat, steal, and stab any back necessary to make yourself look better.

That boy has cried wolf way too many times for me to ever believe.
Click to expand...

Hey my brother adopted two chinese girls - I agree the people and overall culture are wonderful. But the business entities over there are tightly integrated with the government and military and play by dirty rules because they think everything they see should be theirs. Hence my company has cut any involvement with direct Chinese firms and I leverage no global sourcing on my projects and I have been able to make deadlines and budget just fine without any risk of IP theft.
 
M

maslan123

macrumors newbie
Nov 30, 2011
10
0
I am first to admit that China copies EVERYTHING - but i also know Apple copies things. The one thing i know for sure they copied is the Magnetic Power cable. It has been proven that this was in widespread use in China 10 years before Apple came out with it. Nobody patented it back then because it was just assumed that's the way things should be - so everybody did it. There are tons of devices from China that had this capability 10 years before Apple - but Apple applied for and received a patent for their design anyway in US.

All things considered though - China is the world leader in reverse engineering and copying something - hands down.

----------
MacDav said:
Wrong. Even if the Alphabet or Arabic numerals were able to be patented at those historical times, Patents only last for 20 years. So it would all be "Public Domain" and we would be able to use them all we want to. While the patent system needs an overhaul, not to have any I.P. protection would mean the rich and powerful could steal any invention and put the original inventor out of business. Great Idea you have there. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

His main premise/thought is correct though - during that 20 years nobody would wait to use the other alphabet - they would invent there own.
 
HobeSoundDarryl

HobeSoundDarryl

macrumors G5
Feb 8, 2004
12,245
15,624
Hobe Sound, FL (20 miles north of Palm Beach)
gmiller744 said:
It's impossible for this company to have a patent on a smartphone system similar to Siri before smartphones even existed (2004, long before iPhone came around, and long before other smart phones either). Get over yourself, and use a little common sense. Whatever patent they have, it would look absolutely nothing like what their product became several years later, when (entirely unknown to them) new technology completely changed the format of information access.
Click to expand...

Again, excuses. If they invented some way of interacting with technology that was Siri-like and patented it first, what difference does it make when "smart phones" came along? If the implementation of their technology worked before smart phones and it worked with smart phones, the patent probably applies. Making a camcorder shoot still photos doesn't invalidate all still photo technology patents. Or vice versa. Changing the package or where an older, patented technology is applied doesn't make the patent invalid. Else, other company's "stealing" Apple's ideas but packaging them in different technologies should be just as free to do so. I'm not making that argument but if you flip your comment so that Apple would be on the wrong end of such a patent, I bet you would feel entirely different about the rest of your post.
 
TheMacBookPro

TheMacBookPro

macrumors 68020
May 9, 2008
2,133
3
HobeSoundDarryl said:
What, 14 posts and no...
-"Die Shanghai Zhi Zhen Internet Technology. Die" or
-"Apple should just buy Shanghai Zhi Zhen Internet Technology" or
-someone making some conspiracy connection that Samsung is probably behind this.

Of course, there is already the usual pro-Apple posts making this company out to be another idea thief ignoring that they had a patent on this technology BEFORE there was an iPhone gen 1. I know that many of us think that only Apple can innovate anything and that the time something is actually patented only matters when Apple is the one who actually patented something first but other companies can innovate and time to the patent office benefits whichever company gets there first. Apple "innovating" something later doesn't automatically make something created years ago some theft of Apple innovation (they would have needed to time travel into the future to see the Siri "innovation" to do that).

Get over yourselves. Sometimes other companies invent good things before Apple. If they build a Siri-like thing first, they deserve their rewards just as if Apple built some feature first and someone copies them later. Why is the patent system stupid & outdated when it works against Apple but celebrated when it works for Apple?
Click to expand...

Clearly Shanghai Zhi Zhen Internet Technology is Samsung's Chinese front. Both Shanghai and Samsung start with S and contain a G...
 
cgsnipinva

cgsnipinva

macrumors 6502
Jan 29, 2013
494
446
Leesburg, VA
HobeSoundDarryl said:
Again, excuses. If they invented some way of interacting with technology that was Siri-like and patented it first, what difference does it make when "smart phones" came along? If the implementation of their technology worked before smart phones and it worked with smart phones, the patent probably applies. Making a camcorder shoot still photos doesn't invalidate all still photo technology patents. Or vice versa. Changing the package or where an older, patented technology is applied doesn't make the patent invalid. Else, other company's "stealing" Apple's ideas but packaging them in different technologies should be just as free to do so. I'm not making that argument but if you flip your comment so that Apple would be on the wrong end of such a patent, I bet you would feel entirely different about the rest of your post.
Click to expand...

But then you ignore the documents and patents from DARPA where this technology was developed going back to 2001.

Now we know China does a lot of stealing from the DOD - so this could be how they got their "technology developed" in 2004.

I mean for the love of Pete - their new jet Fighter is a carbon copy of the F22.
 
M

maslan123

macrumors newbie
Nov 30, 2011
10
0
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