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bawbac

macrumors 65816
Mar 2, 2012
1,232
48
Seattle, WA
Firing a CEO in less than 5 years, unless he rapes a baby or something equally horrific, is the sign of a bad board, not a bad CEO.

Nope. Fair and square. :)

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So what is your point? Steve made some hiring mistakes - John Sculley being the worst.

I don't see anyone "worshiping" Steve - that is a premise you are trying to no so subtly sell. Steve took Apple from an idea to a company, from near ruin to the world's most capitalized / most admired / most innovative / most .... in Act 2.

Cook is in over his head and dropping the ball as demonstrated by a 40% loss in market cap under his growing tenure in the ceo role & growing list of problems.
laugh.gif
 

RenoG

macrumors 65816
Oct 7, 2010
1,275
59
And the reworking of JCP stores is the only reason I stepped foot in a JCP in 10+ years and would consider going back.

JCP need to go younger. Their current market is OLD PEOPLE who are dying off.
RJ tried to transform JCP for the long term and stock holders are stuck in the short term.
JCP will go back to being JCP, catering to OLD PEOPLE and be out of business within a decade.

I'd have to agree here, I'm the claustrophobic type and avoided walking through PCpenney's at all cost, the place was just stuffed to the hilt with merchandise, hanging from the ceilings, narrowing the isles etc. It killed me. Now when I glance in the store I can actually see through and out into the the parking lot, I can for the first time in many years walk through that place without issue. However Old Folks and Hispanics in my area LOVED the sales and swimming through that crowded sea merchandise. So hey I say let them serve the people that love them the old way until they fold like Merven's and Montgomery Wards.
 

Apple Corps

macrumors 68030
Apr 26, 2003
2,575
542
California
That loss is more from bs talk by so called experts and analysts, unfounded rumor mongering etc than anything Tim Cook has done or not done. Only real mistake Cook has made was trusting when Scott Forstall said iOS 6 was release ready. Or perhaps not firing him months sooner if he is the giant donkey butt the rumors claim

Oh please - only mistake???? Maps, hiring Browett, production issues on iPhone 5 and iMacs, warranty compliance in China, - the list goes on.

Oh, and how about a $2 billion cost overrun on the original $3 billion new campus? Or following SEC regulations on the recent proxy fiasco? The stock buyback strategy is an epic fail.
 
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huntercr

macrumors 65816
Jun 6, 2006
1,039
0
I'm so ****ing lost. Did he lose his job at JC Penny's too or this is just reiterating that he was fired from Apple and is now the CEO of Penny's?

You are confused. I think you were thinking of John Browett.

Ron Johnson was head of Apple Retail. He left.
John Browett came in to Apple Retail and did a horrible job and was fired.
Ron Johnson came in to JC Penny as CEO and did a horrible job and was fired.
Now they are speculating that Ron Johnson may come back to Apple.
 

m2nal

macrumors newbie
May 14, 2009
25
7
I disagree. JC Penny was already struggling, which is why they brought him in. The powers that be wanted some of the Apple and Target magic. Namely, bring in some younger cliental.

They should not have brought him in to only give him a year and a half. He essentially had to make over 1000 tired stores on limited funds. I think he did a remarkable job, and given more time he probably would of had some success.

He brought in store within a store concept, better quality merchandise, significant steps towards remodeling, and rebranding. I was in there yesterday, and some cool store within stores were in the process of being built. It was much lighter and festive looking then in the past.

JCP made a mistake getting rid of him. Sure it was bleeding money, but it already committed to the plan. A new person is going to feel a need to change things, and that will interfere with the stores identity some more.

store in store concept was done by his predecessor Ullman...all Ron did was expand on that concept.....his plan of attrition to right the ship wasn't even praised by analysts...why would the board back him after losing $500mil in value??
 

Squilly

macrumors 68020
Nov 17, 2012
2,260
4
PA
You are confused. I think you were thinking of John Browett.

Ron Johnson was head of Apple Retail. He left.
John Browett came in to Apple Retail and did a horrible job and was fired.
Ron Johnson came in to JC Penny as CEO and did a horrible job and was fired.
Now they are speculating that Ron Johnson may come back to Apple.

Oh, okay. Thanks.
 

the8thark

macrumors 601
Apr 18, 2011
4,628
1,735
The problem was in the execution. It takes a long time to change an existing retailer. He lost the old customers before the new customers arrived. He should have test marketed first. If he saw that dropping coupons drove away so many customers in one market, he could have kept the coupons in the rest of the stores while gradually improving the quality of the merchandise. Hindsight is 20/20 of course, but I wouldn't be surprised if the next permanent CEO decides to implement a version of Johnson's strategy, but in slow motion.

Johnson forgot the one rule.
WHen he and Jobs created the Apple stores they had no idea what to do so they asked Nike (if I remember correctly), and Nike's advice was "you know how you beta test the software? Well to do the same for the stores and beta test that too. That logic needed to be taken to JCP. Beta test the store layout. Ask the customers, old and new do they like the changes, would they shop there with the new changes in place. And do the new changes even work. The original Apple store concept sucked. But it was picked up in beta testing. And changed to to a better model.

So that is one of the failings of Johnson. If he comes back to Apple I won't be unhappy.
 

DakotaGuy

macrumors 601
Jan 14, 2002
4,226
3,791
South Dakota, USA
Really? I don't follow JCP news, but my understanding was that it was a wreck when he took over. Perhaps things continued to spiral, but I didn't think he was the sole cause of the decline.

JCPenney (why they tried renaming a timeless brand to jcp I have no idea) was not doing great before Johnson came, but at least they were treading water. After Johnson started his plan they started posting sales declines of 25-30% each quarter. Those types of declines have never been seen in the history of retail. JCPenney needed some fixing, however instead of taking a careful planned approach Johnson just threw everything out and tried to remake it into the "Apple Department Store" which doesn't work at all with their core customer. He fired long time executives left and right and replaced them with people from Abercrombie and Fitch... Really Ron? He didn't even try his ideas in test markets like every other national retailer does before deploying them nationwide. Why? Well frankly I think he is an arrogant man that just assumed everything he touches turns to gold.

This might sound mean, but arrogance got the best of Ron Johnson and they had no choice, but to replace him. The damage is so great I am not sure if someone else can turn it around after this management catastrophe, but time will tell.
 

MultiMediaWill

macrumors 68000
Aug 1, 2010
1,634
378
Minneapolis
You can find just about every brand JCPenney sells at Macy's, but Macy's carries other stuff as well.

As I said last time, perception is the problem with JCPenney. When you're dealing with mall shopping, the brand has to be one that people will feel good carrying around the mall with their shopping bags and feel good about being seen shopping there.

When I go to the mall I often check out all of the stores, especially if I'm looking for something in particular, but JCPenney is really hurting in the variety now.

JCP does not sell higher end brands like Ralph Lauren or similar.
 

uknowimright

macrumors 6502a
Dec 30, 2011
812
416
this is just from personal observation, but I think JCPenney's biggest problems are that some people see them as an old not cool and budget friendly clothing store with no big brands, from what I have experienced it seems people (at least some around me) want to buy designer clothing even though they really can't afford it and would be better off shopping at JCP/Kohl's ect rather than buying Penguin/Lacoste/Polo/J.Crew/etc.
 

Rogifan

macrumors Penryn
Nov 14, 2011
24,135
31,185
Oh please - only mistake???? Maps, hiring Browett, production issues on iPhone 5 and iMacs, warranty compliance in China, - the list goes on.

Oh, and how about a $2 billion cost overrun on the original $3 billion new campus? Or following SEC regulations on the recent proxy fiasco? The stock buyback strategy is an epic fail.

Well then Steve obviously didn't have a good sense for who should follow him as CEO. Who should he have recommended instead? Someone outside Apple?
 

wordsworth

macrumors 6502
Apr 7, 2011
306
268
UK
There was an excellent article in The New Yorker (dated March 25th, 2013) by James Surowiecki in which the author of the piece cites Warren Buffet's observation that, "When a manager with a reputation for brilliance tackles a business with a reputation for poor fundamental economics, it is the reputation of the business that will remain intact."

The article also acknowledges mistakes made by Ron Johnson during his time at J.C. Penney (the article was published before Johnson moved on), and Surowiecki writes of Johnson's pedigree, and efforts at the company: "Skill is important, but so is context…"

Like I said –*excellent article.
 

carmenodie

macrumors 6502a
Apr 25, 2008
775
0
How stupid could JCP have been to hire this clown. He did nothing but spend a lot of money, piss off a lot of people and then got his a** fired.
JCP thought they were going to pull an Apple Store by selling cheap crap to grandma.
 

Apple Corps

macrumors 68030
Apr 26, 2003
2,575
542
California
Well then Steve obviously didn't have a good sense for who should follow him as CEO. Who should he have recommended instead? Someone outside Apple?

My best guess is that Steve's force of personality kept some of the current executives on an acceptable execution trajectory - but absent Steve, they don't have the ability.

Going outside Apple carries huge risks - you can wind up with a Sculley or Amelio = disaster. Going with a Tim Cook may prove to be as bad. I do believe Steve missed it on his replacement big time.

The Board of Directors / Levinson may have deferred too much to Steve on this topic. The solution may lie in Apple reorganizing in some fashion rather than terminating Cook - narrow his job, off load some of the non strategic duties, and light a fire under some people to get back to what propelled Apple to its success.
 

smetvid

macrumors 6502a
Nov 1, 2009
551
433
When I first glanced at this I thought it was about Ron Johnson the US Senator from WI getting fired. Oh well...
 

Chupa Chupa

macrumors G5
Jul 16, 2002
14,835
7,396
How stupid could JCP have been to hire this clown. He did nothing but spend a lot of money, piss off a lot of people and then got his a** fired.
JCP thought they were going to pull an Apple Store by selling cheap crap to grandma.

The idea wasn't to make an Apple store environment for grandma, it was to try to pull in a younger demographic, you know the way Apple Stores pulled in non-Apple fanboys or the way Cadillac started to produce more aggressive looking models to attract youth.

But Johnson's task was infinitely tougher because consumers have to actively go into a department store where as one might casually pass by an Apple Store and glance though the window, plus in both Apple and Caddy's instances, they sell products that are easy to discretely put in the public eye.

However, where Johnson did fail was putting a plan together to demonstrate JCP has quality items. Ultimately, it looks like all he did was put lipstick on the proverbial pig.
 

lilo777

macrumors 603
Nov 25, 2009
5,144
0
I do not quite understand why people are so surprised at his failure. It's not like Apple Stores are something special. Boring rows of wooden tables is probably the worst store design one can find among consumer electronics stores. The success of the stores has nothing to do with the concept of these stores. It has everything to do with the popularity of iStuff. Now, put Coby's merchandise on these tables and see how well the same stores will do.
 

japasneezemonk

macrumors 6502
Jun 13, 2005
491
141
Nomad
There was an excellent article in The New Yorker (dated March 25th, 2013) by James Surowiecki in which the author of the piece cites Warren Buffet's observation that, "When a manager with a reputation for brilliance tackles a business with a reputation for poor fundamental economics, it is the reputation of the business that will remain intact."

The article also acknowledges mistakes made by Ron Johnson during his time at J.C. Penney (the article was published before Johnson moved on), and Surowiecki writes of Johnson's pedigree, and efforts at the company: "Skill is important, but so is context…"

Like I said –*excellent article.
Here's a link to the article.
THE TURNAROUND TRAP
BY JAMES SUROWIECKI
MARCH 25, 2013

In January of 2012, Ron Johnson, the new C.E.O. of J. C. Penney, gave a speech unveiling his ambitious strategy for reinventing the hoary old retailer. It was a much anticipated event. Penney was directionless and barely profitable, and Johnson was a retail superstar. He had helped make Target hip, pioneering partnerships with big-name designers like Michael Graves, and had then moved to Apple, where he orchestrated the creation of the Apple Store. Johnson’s presentation did not disappoint. He made it clear that he wasn’t going to just stabilize Penney; he was going to revolutionize it. Coupons and sales, which had become ubiquitous, were going to be replaced by what he called “fair and square pricing.” The stores themselves would be radically redesigned, becoming curated showcases of mini shops, arranged by brand. J. C. Penney, Johnson said, would become “America’s favorite store.”
Fourteen months later, J. C. Penney is America’s favorite cautionary tale. Customers have abandoned the store en masse: over the past year, revenues have fallen by twenty-five per cent, and Penney lost almost a billion dollars, half a billion of it in the final quarter alone. The company’s stock price, which jumped twenty-four per cent after Johnson announced his plans, has since fallen almost sixty per cent. Twenty-one thousand employees have lost their jobs. And Johnson has become the target of unrelenting criticism. “There is nothing good to say about what he’s done,” Mark Cohen, a former C.E.O. of Sears Canada, who is now a professor at Columbia, told me. “Penney had been run into a ditch when he took it over. But, rather than getting it back on the road, he’s essentially set it on fire.” Johnson is scrapping his pricing strategy but is sticking by the mini-shop concept: last week, Joe Fresh boutiques débuted in stores across the country. Meanwhile, rumors of Johnson’s imminent departure are everywhere, and last year’s pronouncement is starting to look like the business equivalent of George Bush’s “Mission Accomplished” speech.
The biggest problem with Johnson’s strategy is simple: he misread what Penney’s customers wanted. Doing away with constant markdowns was, on the face of it, sensible: instead of starting with a high price and quickly marking it down, start with a lower price. But Johnson failed to see how attached customers were to markdowns. “In most of the retail universe, price is the most powerful motivator,” Cohen said. “This game of cat and mouse with regular, ever-changing discounts is illogical, but it’s one that lots of consumers like to play. Johnson just ignored all that.”
The way Penney implemented its plan also hurt. For one thing, Johnson didn’t test his pricing strategy—perhaps because of his experience at Apple, where market research has always been anathema. In addition, he rolled it out before the stores had been remodelled or filled with new merchandise. This drove old customers away without giving new ones a reason to come in. Offering pain and no gain is no way to remake a company. “Anytime you’re trying to change the way you do things, small wins are important,” Michael Roberto, a management professor at Bryant University, told me. “Small wins help you build support both internally and externally, and they make it easier for people to buy in.”
Given Johnson’s track record, plenty of people are shocked by what’s happened. Yet hiring him was always a huge gamble. As Cohen put it, “He had never been a C.E.O., never mounted or managed a turnaround, had limited fashion-apparel experience, and had no experience in the middle-market space.” Johnson’s champions assumed that, because he had done great work elsewhere, he would do great work at Penney. But the circumstances at Johnson’s previous companies were radically different from those at Penney. Target was a thriving company that had already positioned itself as a trend-aware, fashionable store, so Johnson had plenty of support in the effort to make it cooler. And, while the Apple Store is a brilliant retail concept, its success was surely helped by the fact that it has been home to three of the best-selling consumer products ever.
At Target and at Apple, Johnson was running with the wind, not against it. At Penney, he’s trying to do something very different: remake a company’s DNA. Penney’s board no doubt believed that Johnson’s record guaranteed that he’d succeed. But this perception probably reflects what psychologists call “the fundamental attribution error”—our tendency to ignore context and attribute an individual’s success or failure solely to inherent qualities. (People who watch one basketball player shoot free throws in a poorly lighted gym and another shoot in a well-lighted gym attribute the latter’s greater success to ability rather than to conditions.) Skill is important, but so is context: being great at selling cheap fashion or cool technology products doesn’t mean you’ll be great at turning around a middle-market retailer.
Of course, this cuts both ways. Right now, Johnson looks like a complete fool. But turnarounds are hard to pull off, especially in retail. One study found that efforts at merely getting a money-losing retailer back to profitability succeed only thirty per cent of the time. Radically remaking a major company, as Johnson is trying to do, is even harder. So, if Johnson isn’t as good as he looked at Apple, he’s probably not as bad as he looks at Penney. Indeed, his biggest mistake may simply have been taking the job in the first place. He’s become a living example of one of Warren Buffett’s keenest observations: “When a manager with a reputation for brilliance tackles a business with a reputation for poor fundamental economics, it is the reputation of the business that remains intact.” ♦

 

balconycollapse

Cancelled
Aug 7, 2003
213
98
Different Customers OR Better Customers

I think the argument that Apple and Target don't have the same customers as JCP doesn't matter because maybe those customers aren't ever coming back and they weren't bringing a profit anyway.

I know a lot of women who really like the Martha Stewart brand and I feel should would have been pull into the store but it just didn't happen.

Our store has been perpetually under construction for the last year and I think if it were finished only then could I judge it. But being under construction perpetually makes shoppers feel put off I think more then all the free haircuts for your kids, wifi service and other aesthetics can offset. I think the CONSTRUCTION was the thing that hurt stales. Because, if it looked like Target or Kohls minus the construction it would be just fine because they'd start nabbing some of their customers.

Likely another CEO will come along and get all the credit in 2 years when things improve mostly because construction is finished.
 

Medic311

macrumors 68000
Jul 30, 2011
1,659
58
give a CEO an acceptable (not extravagent) salary and then extra bonus compensation on a tiered system in a specific order that leads the company to success.

Tier 1 bonus: # of product innovations that come to market
Tier 2 bonus (must have met Tier 1): product innovations sales numbers
Tier 3 bonus (must have met Tier 1 and 2): profit margin of new product innovations

In order to achieve Tier 3 bonus, you must have met the criteria of Tier 1 and Tier 2. this ensures that you aren't trying to build a castle on quick sand.

Tier 1 ensures that you are innovating
Tier 2 ensures that your innovative products are selling
Tier 3 ensures that you are achieving an acceptable profit margin


unfortunately it's too late to undue much of the outsourcing, job cuts, and benefits restructuring. manufacturing of high tech small electronics will never come back to the US mainland (Mexico maybe, yes...as the Chinese labor rate is now higher for the first time in history), the pension system as we used to know it is a dead horse, and manufacturing technological advancements means fewer people are needed to product goods.

it's never too late to put an end to the executive compensation nonsense.
 

Rogifan

macrumors Penryn
Nov 14, 2011
24,135
31,185
My best guess is that Steve's force of personality kept some of the current executives on an acceptable execution trajectory - but absent Steve, they don't have the ability.

Going outside Apple carries huge risks - you can wind up with a Sculley or Amelio = disaster. Going with a Tim Cook may prove to be as bad. I do believe Steve missed it on his replacement big time.

The Board of Directors / Levinson may have deferred too much to Steve on this topic. The solution may lie in Apple reorganizing in some fashion rather than terminating Cook - narrow his job, off load some of the non strategic duties, and light a fire under some people to get back to what propelled Apple to its success.

Apple did just reorganize last year. Now they've got a head of services, software, hardware and design. What other reorg do they need? And if Cook should go back to COO (which is basically what you're suggesting) then who should be responsible for the strategic vision? One of the current SVPs? Someone from outside Apple?

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I do not quite understand why people are so surprised at his failure. It's not like Apple Stores are something special. Boring rows of wooden tables is probably the worst store design one can find among consumer electronics stores. The success of the stores has nothing to do with the concept of these stores. It has everything to do with the popularity of iStuff. Now, put Coby's merchandise on these tables and see how well the same stores will do.

I can't believe two people up voted this. :rolleyes:
 

iLilana

macrumors 6502a
May 5, 2003
807
300
Alberta, Canada
first things first

APHEX TWIN YEAH!


He did amazing stuff with Apple, but I wouldn't take him back. What kind of management morale would there be with someone who left coming back?

second since it says you live in Seoul best luck tomorrow. avoid explosions and severe radiation.
 

sunspot42

macrumors regular
Aug 7, 2007
121
3
Huh?

Apple competes in a market with very few competitors.

I'm sorry...say WHAT? Apple's retail operation had dozens of competitors, as have their various hardware lines.

I say "had", because Apple effectively wiped many of them out.

On the retail side, they competed with everything from Circuit City and CompUSA to Amazon and Newegg, not to mention BestBuy, Staples, etc.

Their hardware lines have competed with the likes of Dell, HP, Lenovo, Sony, Samsung, HTC, Microsoft, RIM, Motorola, Creative, etc. etc. etc.

Ron Johnson did a great job at Target, but Target wasn't a basket case when he took over. Likewise, Apple's stores had polish and focus. JC Penny has been circling the drain for decades - the only thing saving them has been the implosion of even weaker competitors, like Montgomery Wards, Mervyns and Sears/K-Mart.

I think Johnson had the right ideas, but executed them poorly. He drove off their dying customer base before he could successfully attract enough new customers to replace them. The company is likely to continue its slide into the abyss now.

Honestly though, who needs these awful department stores? Dedicated retailers have offered better product now for decades, apart from a few of the very largest players in the mid-to-high end, where economies of scale and buying power can help bring prices down a bit on quality merchandise (Macy's and Bloomingdales, at least sometimes, and Nordstrom which is pricey but can be a good value if you've got the money).
 
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