Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

firewood

macrumors G3
Jul 29, 2003
8,108
1,345
Silicon Valley
Because there's an option (yes, I know, it's not mandatory) that will erase your phone after 10 failed attempts.

Which is probably done by some code in the devices ROM. So if the device manufacturer can change this code by knowing the DFU software install key...
 

polymersayb

macrumors regular
Dec 12, 2012
125
130
The 8 didgit is also alphanumeric. Far, far, far more than 8 months.

Actually, when you select a long password that consists of only digits you get a numberpad entry (same as regular PIN plus an 'OK' button so that the number of digits is unknown). I think that changed in iOS6 because in iOS5 you got the whole alphanumeric keyboard.

Anyway, I have that plus the wipe-on-10-attempts setting so hopefully a random person won't get access to my stuff.
 

Black107

macrumors regular
Jun 5, 2009
127
71
Well they do store your password...

Assuming their database architects weren't grossly negligent, they have a one-way hash of each user's password. Not the password itself. I wouldn't be surprised if they have ways to backdoor your data, but it wouldn't be via entering your literal password nor could they provide your literal password.
 

Intell

macrumors P6
Jan 24, 2010
18,955
509
Inside
I thought ifunbox gave access to the filesystem of a locked ios device. I must be mistaken.

iFunBox only has access to an iOS device if the device has been authenticated with the computer. If you lock an iOS device and connect it to a computer that it has never been connected to before, the computer and iFunBox would not be able to view its contents. This includes the camera roll. Once the device's passcode has been enter and the device is unlocked and connected to a computer, it is authorized to always present it's contents to the computer.
 

gnasher729

Suspended
Nov 25, 2005
17,980
5,565
Assuming their database architects weren't grossly negligent, they have a one-way hash of each user's password. Not the password itself. I wouldn't be surprised if they have ways to backdoor your data, but it wouldn't be via entering your literal password nor could they provide your literal password.

There is a white paper by Apple describing how it works.

First, there is the "real" decryption key, which is 16 random hexadecimal digits.

Second, there is the master key, which is also 16 random hexadecimal digits. The "real" key is only ever stored encrypted with the master key. To erase an encrypted drive, the only thing Apple needs to do is erase the location where the encrypted "real" key is stored (I think it is stored in two locations in case of a read error on the first location). Once that location is erased, there's nothing that can be done, even if you have the master key.

On MacOS X, when you use encryption, you have the choice of sending the master key to Apple who can return it to you if you answer three security questions, or writing it down and keeping it forever in a save place.

The "master" key is stored encrypted with the user's password. So if someone can guess the user's password, the master key can be recovered. Of course it is possible to try out all possible user passwords until one works. But the master key is encrypted in such a way that decrypting it takes about a tenth of a second, so only ten user passwords can be tried per second. I'd say ten random digits and letters is quite unbreakable.

An interesting situation if you have multiple users on a Mac: User 1 stores the master key, encrypted with user 1's password. User 2 stores the master key, encrypted with user 2's password. So two users on the same Mac can have different passwords.
 

Sunday Ironfoot

macrumors regular
Apr 14, 2011
213
383
There's no backdoor. They're just brute-force cracking the cryptographic hash of your 4 digit pin code, only 10k permutations. Want to REALLY protect your iPhone, then set a much longer password, which is annoying to have to type in all the time you access your iPhone. Alternatively, wait for the finger print reader in the iPhone 5S.
 

kolax

macrumors G3
Mar 20, 2007
9,181
115
Remember you can set your iPhone to erase all data after 10 failed attempts at the passcode, including the 4-digit one.
 

Sunday Ironfoot

macrumors regular
Apr 14, 2011
213
383
Remember you can set your iPhone to erase all data after 10 failed attempts at the passcode, including the 4-digit one.

The 10 failed attempts thing is only done at the OS software level, won't work if you extract the raw cryptographic hash, you can make all the attempts you want.
 

OldSchoolMacGuy

Suspended
Jul 10, 2008
4,197
9,050
There's no backdoor. They're just brute-force cracking the cryptographic hash of your 4 digit pin code, only 10k permutations. Want to REALLY protect your iPhone, then set a much longer password, which is annoying to have to type in all the time you access your iPhone. Alternatively, wait for the finger print reader in the iPhone 5S.

That is incorrect. They simply remove the password. I've worked in computer forensics for over 6 years and worked with Apple many times in investigations.

----------

Source? It uses AES128 if I'm not mistaken.

Source would be personally being in some of the labs and witnessing it during active investigations.
 

iMikeT

macrumors 68020
Jul 8, 2006
2,304
1
California
I saw a video on YouTube by a 13 year old kid who can hack into an iPhone, law enforcement should seek him out to bypass the backlog.
 

subsonix

macrumors 68040
Feb 2, 2008
3,551
79
Source would be personally being in some of the labs and witnessing it during active investigations.

Ok, assumingly it's not AES128 it self that is defeated then, as that would be somewhat of a breakthrough afaik.

Was this before FileVault was used on the entire disk, not just the home catalog btw? If I remember correctly some loopholes existed with that scheme.
 

Thunderhawks

Suspended
Feb 17, 2009
4,057
2,118
I think the media is missing the boat by not posting the correct head line.
Fox News comes to mind and get it on Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity:

Apple refuses to help police and government in murder case.

That should help cutting through the 7 week backlog.

Now we're talking!
 

wallsbk

macrumors newbie
May 10, 2013
1
0
Of course there is a security hole if you have a four digit passcode.

Try 0 0 0 0.
Try 0 0 0 1.
Try 0 0 0 2.

and so on.

Try 0 0 0 3.
Try 0 0 0 4.
Try 0 0 0 5.
Try 0 0 0 6.
Try 0 0 0 7.
Try 0 0 0 8.
Try 0 0 0 9.
Try 0 0 1 0.

All data on iOS device is erased.

Not a great method!
 

iVoid

macrumors 65816
Jan 9, 2007
1,145
190
Well they do store your password...

They store your encryption key if you okay it.

They better not be storing my local passwords on their servers. (not talking about my apple ID that I DON'T use the same password elsewhere)
 

ThunderSkunk

macrumors 68040
Dec 31, 2007
3,823
4,052
Milwaukee Area
ATF agents are the least scrupulous people with the most incentive to ruin your life for their own gain out running around carte blanche.

I'd sooner put my devices in a microwave or set my car on fire before I'd give them anything to play around with. I'd much rather explain to a judge why I have no trust in their "authority", and why I'd sooner see them getting shot up in whichever third-world hellhole they spend all day fantasizing they're in, than cooperate with their BS-wrangling schemes ever again.

I'd like to see Apple respect its customers privacy instead, and tell these pumped-up idiots that if they want customers data they'll have to get it from the customer, and anything they cant get, they cant get.

Apple should not become a corporate extension of the penal system, especially not such a corrupt one.
 

Romey-Rome

macrumors regular
Oct 23, 2012
152
77
So the lesson is - Make sure someone else has access to your iCloud, and have them remote wipe as soon as the cuffs are on. I'm not sure if it's 100% effective though, or if it's like hard drives, and can be recovered.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.