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Belkin Upgrades Thunderbolt Express Dock with USB 3.0 and eSATA, Bumps Price to $399.99
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Belkin v. Matrox hubs, considerations...
Well, now that Matrox DS1 is shipping, we're faced with a challenge. Cost concerns aside, does the Matrox DS1 hub (assuming it performs as advertised) have enough of the right stuff, or are we gonna' wait until the first quarter of '13, for the ExpressDock.
I drew up this flow chart, to illustrate the ways in which I might use either one. All cables originate from the computer (rMBP), splitting to either the Belkin or Matrox device, depending on which I've got.
CONCERNS/NOTES
*I've had difficulties using my Apple SuperDrive (CD/DVD) on powered USB 2 hubs. For the Matrox DS1 scenario, I'm plugging it directly into one of the rMBP USB 3 ports. I'd be surprised if it works on a Matrox DS1 USB 2 port, and I need the Matrox's USB 3 for external audio equipment (Not going to be upgrading THAT to thunderbolt anytime soon. Same goes for my external HDD).
*Presently, I use an adapter for the rMBP's (hybrid?) 3.5mm audio-out port to a Toslink optical audio cable, which runs to my A/V receiver. I would be surprised if the audio out ports on EITHER of these two hubs supports digital, and so I might very well have to keep my direct rMBP-->A/V receiver hookup, despite the ones on the hub. I'll likely use the mic port on the hub, however.
*With the Belkin, My USB 3/Firewire external HDD is going to have a dedicated Firewire port. A nice advantage over my USB 2 solution, using the Matrox (of course I COULD plug it into the free USB 3 port on the rMBP, but I'm trying to make USE of the dock here 😛 )
*The thunderbolt passthrough port on the Belkin is irrelevant for this scenario, because I'm just going to use a TB-->DVI-D adapter to my external monitor (not a thunderbolt device), anyway. Nice perk though, if I were to buy a thunderbolt monitor. Not gonna' happen soon. Additionally, the rMBP sports a second TB port anyway, for future needs.
Upshot is, I'm having a whole lot of trouble justifying the wait, to buy the Belkin instead of the Matrox. And it's cheaper, too.
Just noticed, Belkin changed their ExpressDock design, w/ all TB ports on back, no e-sata (fine by me).
Well, now that Matrox DS1 is shipping, we're faced with a challenge. Cost concerns aside, does the Matrox DS1 hub (assuming it performs as advertised) have enough of the right stuff, or are we gonna' wait until the first quarter of '13, for the ExpressDock.
I drew up this flow chart, to illustrate the ways in which I might use either one. All cables originate from the computer (rMBP), splitting to either the Belkin or Matrox device, depending on which I've got.
CONCERNS/NOTES
*I've had difficulties using my Apple SuperDrive (CD/DVD) on powered USB 2 hubs. For the Matrox DS1 scenario, I'm plugging it directly into one of the rMBP USB 3 ports. I'd be surprised if it works on a Matrox DS1 USB 2 port, and I need the Matrox's USB 3 for external audio equipment (Not going to be upgrading THAT to thunderbolt anytime soon. Same goes for my external HDD).
*Presently, I use an adapter for the rMBP's (hybrid?) 3.5mm audio-out port to a Toslink optical audio cable, which runs to my A/V receiver. I would be surprised if the audio out ports on EITHER of these two hubs supports digital, and so I might very well have to keep my direct rMBP-->A/V receiver hookup, despite the ones on the hub. I'll likely use the mic port on the hub, however.
*With the Belkin, My USB 3/Firewire external HDD is going to have a dedicated Firewire port. A nice advantage over my USB 2 solution, using the Matrox (of course I COULD plug it into the free USB 3 port on the rMBP, but I'm trying to make USE of the dock here 😛 )
*The thunderbolt passthrough port on the Belkin is irrelevant for this scenario, because I'm just going to use a TB-->DVI-D adapter to my external monitor (not a thunderbolt device), anyway. Nice perk though, if I were to buy a thunderbolt monitor. Not gonna' happen soon. Additionally, the rMBP sports a second TB port anyway, for future needs.
Upshot is, I'm having a whole lot of trouble justifying the wait, to buy the Belkin instead of the Matrox. And it's cheaper, too.
Just noticed, Belkin changed their ExpressDock design, w/ all TB ports on back, no e-sata (fine by me).
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johnnyturbouk
macrumors 68000
hmm, nic bit of kit
way too overpriced!
as $=£ by the time these things hit the other side of the atlantic, i think £400 (including TB lead) is extoerenate, i really can not see anyone buying, even those desperate to use their TB ports.
i would rather put the money towards a BTO iMac
way too overpriced!
as $=£ by the time these things hit the other side of the atlantic, i think £400 (including TB lead) is extoerenate, i really can not see anyone buying, even those desperate to use their TB ports.
i would rather put the money towards a BTO iMac
Sölarial
macrumors newbie
Looks Nice, High Price
Any word on if they rethought their genius idea to way out price end users?
I would be interested at the $250ish Matrox is currently charging.
Or even better, perhaps another manufacturer, far better than Belkin has something in the pipeline? Even E-Machines would be higher quality than most Belkin gear 😉.
Any word on if they rethought their genius idea to way out price end users?
I would be interested at the $250ish Matrox is currently charging.
Or even better, perhaps another manufacturer, far better than Belkin has something in the pipeline? Even E-Machines would be higher quality than most Belkin gear 😉.
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CONTENDER - Henge Docks horizontal TB docking station
MacRumors user JKColo22 posted an interesting product link:
http://hengedocks.com/order_horizontal_dock.php
...on this parallel thread:
https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=16790901
Henge Docks, LLC. manufactures vertically-oriented docks for the MacBook line. This model (not yet shipping, Q3) has three MiniDisplay ports, instead of TB passthrough. The Thunderbolt model isn't due out until Q4 2013. More vaporware? Perhaps, but the company's current line of products *appear* valid -- I haven't found a preponderance of reviews online to support this belief, but they have a convincing story, haha.
Quoting myself from the other thread,
So, a third contender for our precious dock dollars. Are we certain there are only these three in the running, or are there still more potentially magnificent Thunderbolt dock concepts out there in the Internet wilds, just waiting to be marketed, then (hopefully) manufactured?
I'll just say this, I'm looking forward to buying the Belkin, so we can all go home. 🙄
MacRumors user JKColo22 posted an interesting product link:
http://hengedocks.com/order_horizontal_dock.php
...on this parallel thread:
https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=16790901
Henge Docks, LLC. manufactures vertically-oriented docks for the MacBook line. This model (not yet shipping, Q3) has three MiniDisplay ports, instead of TB passthrough. The Thunderbolt model isn't due out until Q4 2013. More vaporware? Perhaps, but the company's current line of products *appear* valid -- I haven't found a preponderance of reviews online to support this belief, but they have a convincing story, haha.
Quoting myself from the other thread,
So, a third contender for our precious dock dollars. Are we certain there are only these three in the running, or are there still more potentially magnificent Thunderbolt dock concepts out there in the Internet wilds, just waiting to be marketed, then (hopefully) manufactured?
I'll just say this, I'm looking forward to buying the Belkin, so we can all go home. 🙄
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Well, glad to see the Matrox DS1 being advertised in MacWorld Magazine, a nice affirmation that products of this sort have a future. Gives me hope for the DS1 aftermarket; Once Belkin ships, then we can get a Matrox for <$200 on Amazon/NewEgg/etc. in 2 months while Thunderbolt remains broadly a debacle. 😎
EDIT: Sadly, my reality, as with most who own very new Apple devices, circumscribes anything "dock" at the moment. THis bizxness is brazenly flamboyant at best circa '13. You'd be better served to go on a shopping spree at your nearest convenience store.
EDIT: Sadly, my reality, as with most who own very new Apple devices, circumscribes anything "dock" at the moment. THis bizxness is brazenly flamboyant at best circa '13. You'd be better served to go on a shopping spree at your nearest convenience store.
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That is one nice looking cable ^.^,
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ta1pkgwnu8h25vn/TBcable-2m-Apple.jpg
and at $39+shipping for 2m, it's a heckuva lot better deal than Belk's $45 1m offering -- nice thought that 1m is a better length if you keep the ExpressDock on your desk, otherwise forget about it
Good job Apple marketing department dropping the price on that one, and making third party TB device manufacturers even less able to turn a profit, grumble. Interesting they package it in a 4-inch diameter coil; I wonder if that's for shipping/size efficiency, or that's maximum flex before causing damage?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ta1pkgwnu8h25vn/TBcable-2m-Apple.jpg
and at $39+shipping for 2m, it's a heckuva lot better deal than Belk's $45 1m offering -- nice thought that 1m is a better length if you keep the ExpressDock on your desk, otherwise forget about it
Good job Apple marketing department dropping the price on that one, and making third party TB device manufacturers even less able to turn a profit, grumble. Interesting they package it in a 4-inch diameter coil; I wonder if that's for shipping/size efficiency, or that's maximum flex before causing damage?
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Matrox wins
f-it, I'm flat out sick of waiting, I've got better things to do with my life. It's a new year, emphasis on "year", and my rMBP isn't getting any younger. Matrox DS1 ftw. Haven't formally cancelled my Belkin ExpressDock pre-order just yet, but broke down & ordered up DS1 direct from Matrox this past week anyway, and it's worth every penny. A couple less USB 3, no firewire (broke down and bought the Thunderbolt-->Firewire adapter for use on my rMBP second Thunderbolt port anyway, waiting for stupid Belkin to get its act together), but DS1 works flawlessly. Sorry Belkin, go home. 😎
f-it, I'm flat out sick of waiting, I've got better things to do with my life. It's a new year, emphasis on "year", and my rMBP isn't getting any younger. Matrox DS1 ftw. Haven't formally cancelled my Belkin ExpressDock pre-order just yet, but broke down & ordered up DS1 direct from Matrox this past week anyway, and it's worth every penny. A couple less USB 3, no firewire (broke down and bought the Thunderbolt-->Firewire adapter for use on my rMBP second Thunderbolt port anyway, waiting for stupid Belkin to get its act together), but DS1 works flawlessly. Sorry Belkin, go home. 😎
Belkin has very good reputation, hopefully they can figure out the shipping date soon. Another two good choices are from caldigit and sonnet.
http://www.caldigit.com/thunderboltstation/ is cheaper than any one else and the working unit looks very nice at the show
http://www.thunderbolt4mac.com/caldigit/thunderbolt-station/
caldigit's one costs only 199 bucks where sonnet one costs 549 bucks with everything you need.
sonnet is taking per-order now and ship in summer; caldigit is putting up the waiting list and no indication when they will be release it. http://www.caldigit.com/register/waitlist.asp?PID=CalDigit Thunderbolt Station
----------
sonnet one at trade show
http://www.thunderbolt4mac.com/sonnet/Echo-15-Thunderbolt-Dock/index.asp
http://www.caldigit.com/thunderboltstation/ is cheaper than any one else and the working unit looks very nice at the show
http://www.thunderbolt4mac.com/caldigit/thunderbolt-station/
caldigit's one costs only 199 bucks where sonnet one costs 549 bucks with everything you need.
sonnet is taking per-order now and ship in summer; caldigit is putting up the waiting list and no indication when they will be release it. http://www.caldigit.com/register/waitlist.asp?PID=CalDigit Thunderbolt Station
----------
sonnet one at trade show
http://www.thunderbolt4mac.com/sonnet/Echo-15-Thunderbolt-Dock/index.asp
sure 🙂 By the way, the apple firewire to thunderbolt adapter is only good for the one who has no need for downstream. That being said if you need to chain more thunderbolt devices, you need two ports thunderbolt docking or devices, or you need to have two thunderbolt port macs such ash rMBP. Belkin, Caldigit and Sonnet are making 2-port docking.
Hmm, unable to find/install USB controller drivers for the ExpressDock's three USB 3 ports under Win 7. All works fine in OSX and Win, except for this. Are USB 3 hubs flukey under Win 7 or something, anyway. Can't find any other reports of this on the www, maybe just my Win install or something... Any thoughts?
AidenShaw
macrumors P6
http://www.belkin.com/us/support
The Win7 DVD/ISO doesn't contain USB 3 drivers, they need to be downloaded.
Another idea would be to open the Device Manager, and look for a device with an error indicator (yellow exclamation point) on its icon. Open the properties panel. Go to the "Details" tab, and look at the property "Hardware Ids".
You'll see something like "USB\VID_050D&PID_0231". Bing for that string. For that string I get a link to http://www.ixitools.com/hwcat/usb_vid_050d_pid_0231/devinfo17388.html which shows:
usb\vid_050d&pid_0231 - Belkin Components Generic USB Hub
Hardware id: usb\vid_050d&pid_0231
Vendor id: vid_050d
Vendor name: Belkin Components
Device id: pid_0231
Device name: Generic USB Hub
GUID: Universal Serial Bus controllers
GUID name: {36FC9E60-C465-11CF-8056-444553540000}
Compatible id: usb\vid_050d&pid_0231
usb\vid_050d&pid_0231&rev_0007
usb\class_09
usb\class_09&subclass_00
usb\class_09&subclass_00&prot_01
Hardware id: usb\vid_050d&pid_0231
Vendor id: vid_050d
Vendor name: Belkin Components
Device id: pid_0231
Device name: Generic USB Hub
GUID: Universal Serial Bus controllers
GUID name: {36FC9E60-C465-11CF-8056-444553540000}
Compatible id: usb\vid_050d&pid_0231
usb\vid_050d&pid_0231&rev_0007
usb\class_09
usb\class_09&subclass_00
usb\class_09&subclass_00&prot_01
In this case "VID_050D" identifies the manufacturer as "Belkin", and the "PID_0231" identifies the Belkin device.
With that info you'll have better luck finding the right driver.
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Thanks AidenShaw
The device ID reported for this error (code "28") appears to be PCI, not USB.
PCI/VEN_1B73&DEV_1100&SUBSYS_0055050D&REV_01\8&4E8C251&0&000000180009
I did try to Bing that but didn't find anything
Used an abbreviated search string, "PCI/VEN_1B73&DEV_1100&SUBSYS" and came up with,
"Fresco Logic xHCI (USB3) Controller FL1100 Series driver manufacturer is Fresco Logic and developed by Fresco Logic in the database contains 2 versions of the Fresco Logic xHCI (USB3) Controller FL1100 Series matches the hardware PCI\VEN_1B73&DEV_1100&SUBSYS_11001B73&REV_00.Fresco Logic xHCI (USB3) Controller FL1100 Series compatible with 7 hardwares driver contains 0 binary files."
Bing link was to binarydb.com, with address "http://binarydb.com/driver/Fresco-Logic-xHCI-%28USB3%29-Controller-FL1100-Series-59545.html"
The driver looks like it's for a later version than the device ID that Win 7 came up with. Tempted to give it a try.
I'm gonna' keep tooling around for a better match, or else contact Belkin. Always a good idea to contact the manufacturer direct 🙂 Thanks for your help.
The device ID reported for this error (code "28") appears to be PCI, not USB.
PCI/VEN_1B73&DEV_1100&SUBSYS_0055050D&REV_01\8&4E8C251&0&000000180009
I did try to Bing that but didn't find anything
Used an abbreviated search string, "PCI/VEN_1B73&DEV_1100&SUBSYS" and came up with,
"Fresco Logic xHCI (USB3) Controller FL1100 Series driver manufacturer is Fresco Logic and developed by Fresco Logic in the database contains 2 versions of the Fresco Logic xHCI (USB3) Controller FL1100 Series matches the hardware PCI\VEN_1B73&DEV_1100&SUBSYS_11001B73&REV_00.Fresco Logic xHCI (USB3) Controller FL1100 Series compatible with 7 hardwares driver contains 0 binary files."
Bing link was to binarydb.com, with address "http://binarydb.com/driver/Fresco-Logic-xHCI-%28USB3%29-Controller-FL1100-Series-59545.html"
The driver looks like it's for a later version than the device ID that Win 7 came up with. Tempted to give it a try.
I'm gonna' keep tooling around for a better match, or else contact Belkin. Always a good idea to contact the manufacturer direct 🙂 Thanks for your help.
AidenShaw
macrumors P6
A PCI device would start with PCI. The string that I quoted was for an external Belkin USB hub connected via USB, therefore it started with USB.
Drivers are often written to support minor revisions of the base hardware, and most installers won't load the driver if it doesn't support the Hardware Id of the device. There's almost never any harm from attempting, and "Last Known Good" is there for those rare occasions.
Hi again, AidenShaw
Feels like I'm in a bit over my head with this. I sent a customer support inquiry e-mail to Belkin, so maybe they can help out, but their product FAQ does state, "The Thunderbolt Express Dock requires Thunderbolt enabled Mac computers with an operating system of 10.8.3 or higher." Interesting, because the Matrox DS1, which I was getting ready to pawn on eBay doesn't report any problems with ITS single SuperSpeed USB 3 port in Win 7.
As I'd stated, I did some Bing searches (Google provided similar results) with appended strings for this device's Win 7 ID, with all fingers pointing to Fresco Logic (and really, I have no idea who they are)...
"PCI/VEN_1B73&DEV_1100&SUBSYS_0055050" no results
"PCI/VEN_1B73&DEV_1100&SUBSYS" no results
"PCI/VEN_1B73&DEV_1100" Fresco
And so, with your encouragement at my side, I went ahead and downloaded the latest driver package for 64-bit Win 7 (fresco-usb3-v3.5.97.0), and ran the FLUSB3.0-3.5.97.0.x64 Windows installer package, but no love. After installation, and an obligatory restart, I troubleshooted the offending device once again, and Windows still couldn't locate the proper driver set for the device. I'm not as familiar with Windows as I once was, since primarily using OS X for a decade; Am I missing a step? Do I need to point the device manager to the newly installed driver in some way that I have not, or might you suggest that this Fresco driver set is in fact NOT a suitable match?
I may be sending the Belkin Thunderbolt ExpressDock back to sender, as apposed to pawning the entirely functional Matrox DS1, afterall.
Feels like I'm in a bit over my head with this. I sent a customer support inquiry e-mail to Belkin, so maybe they can help out, but their product FAQ does state, "The Thunderbolt Express Dock requires Thunderbolt enabled Mac computers with an operating system of 10.8.3 or higher." Interesting, because the Matrox DS1, which I was getting ready to pawn on eBay doesn't report any problems with ITS single SuperSpeed USB 3 port in Win 7.
As I'd stated, I did some Bing searches (Google provided similar results) with appended strings for this device's Win 7 ID, with all fingers pointing to Fresco Logic (and really, I have no idea who they are)...
"PCI/VEN_1B73&DEV_1100&SUBSYS_0055050" no results
"PCI/VEN_1B73&DEV_1100&SUBSYS" no results
"PCI/VEN_1B73&DEV_1100" Fresco
And so, with your encouragement at my side, I went ahead and downloaded the latest driver package for 64-bit Win 7 (fresco-usb3-v3.5.97.0), and ran the FLUSB3.0-3.5.97.0.x64 Windows installer package, but no love. After installation, and an obligatory restart, I troubleshooted the offending device once again, and Windows still couldn't locate the proper driver set for the device. I'm not as familiar with Windows as I once was, since primarily using OS X for a decade; Am I missing a step? Do I need to point the device manager to the newly installed driver in some way that I have not, or might you suggest that this Fresco driver set is in fact NOT a suitable match?
I may be sending the Belkin Thunderbolt ExpressDock back to sender, as apposed to pawning the entirely functional Matrox DS1, afterall.