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chukronos

macrumors 6502
Oct 20, 2004
458
186
Colleyville, TX
I almost regret starting this thread and adding to the collective neurosis of this community.. but hey, that's what we're all here for, right? ;)

Ummm...yeah, thanks! Haha! I didn't notice any bleed on my screen until I saw your post - then I HAD to check if I had it. lol! Mine is just in the corners and not nearly as bad as your was. I was considering taking mine back until I saw that it is common with this type of panels - and I don't notice it with normal use and photoshop. AND, I was afraid I would exchange mine for one like your first one.

Glad you got it worked out.
 

Arfdog

macrumors 6502
Jan 25, 2013
377
0
I almost regret starting this thread and adding to the collective neurosis of this community.. but hey, that's what we're all here for, right? ;)

One key thing is if you see any edge bleeding, center your eyes directly in front of the affected area. If it doesn't go away, then you have true backlight bleeding. All other glowing has to do with IPS being generally terrible at handling blacks off-axis.

However much backlight bleeding you can tolerate or find acceptable is pretty subjective.

I personally replaced my iMac twice before getting a screen that didn't have any real back-light bleeding. For me it was worth the trouble, as it really distracted me. But YMMV.

Yeah thanks a lot.... lol. I never noticed it either, until you pointed it out. And if someone has to point something out and it takes me effort to notice it, I consider it unnoticeable.

Bigger fish to fry and all that!
 

Armada12

macrumors newbie
Apr 18, 2013
2
0
Sending it back...

Yeah well, i'm afraid i'm gonna send my Imac back. I love the machine but after i had noticed the backlight bleed during dark movie scenes i've also begun to notice that during normal desktop work the left hand side of my screen is considerably brighter than the right hand side.

For example, when you display a solid green color over the entire screen it's a much brighter hue of green on the left side. That's while sitting directly in front of the screen btw.

That's just unacceptable for something which costs this much. It's a shame really.

So, let's join the panel lottery then! :p
 

anisatam

macrumors member
Sep 11, 2011
41
0
This is my screen which arrived yesterday,
Has severe light bleeds and am considering sending it back.
Ani
 

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Mitch619

macrumors newbie
Feb 1, 2013
23
0
Backlight bleeding is totally acceptable in LED backlit LCDs. All within an acceptable range though. Some of the pictures I've seen here fall within acceptable for manufacturers.

Apple needs to step it up and use LCDs with local dimming if they want to eliminate this issue. Being as they refuse to even look at OLED, they really should transition to higher quality LCDs.

I'm not really sure if LCDs with local dimming can be made thin enough for apples standards, but I would be willing to sacrifice thinness for quality displays. An imac with a higher resolution and local dimming would kill all other displays in the computer category.
 

rockmassif

macrumors newbie
May 9, 2013
10
0
Backlight bleeding is totally acceptable in LED backlit LCDs. All within an acceptable range though. Some of the pictures I've seen here fall within acceptable for manufacturers.

Apple needs to step it up and use LCDs with local dimming if they want to eliminate this issue. Being as they refuse to even look at OLED, they really should transition to higher quality LCDs.

I'm not really sure if LCDs with local dimming can be made thin enough for apples standards, but I would be willing to sacrifice thinness for quality displays. An imac with a higher resolution and local dimming would kill all other displays in the computer category.

Ok but what is exactly a normal bleeding? i read many quotes but i cannot really understand if my late 2012 27" is on the "normal" side. i have the typical bottom left white light (about 4") and some minor yellow lights at the top corners that are not really noticeable but i cannot fully understand how does the screen should be in order to be like it should (if a standard exists)
 

kidwei

macrumors regular
Original poster
Sep 20, 2007
160
20
Ok but what is exactly a normal bleeding? i read many quotes but i cannot really understand if my late 2012 27" is on the "normal" side. i have the typical bottom left white light (about 4") and some minor yellow lights at the top corners that are not really noticeable but i cannot fully understand how does the screen should be in order to be like it should (if a standard exists)

two tests i found helpful.. the corner "bleeding" is actually not really backlight bleeding.. it's a function of poor viewing angles for IPS screens (ironic, isn't it?) First test, try standing further back (5-6 feet) and straight in front of the screen and see if the bleeding is still evident. The corners should start to look blacker as you stand further back.

second test, try centering your eyes around any potential bleed. If the bleed persists when you're dead ahead, it's probably real blacklight bleed.

Given that IPS has such horrible viewing angles for dark scenes, it becomes tricky to determine what's blacklight bleeding vs just poor viewing angles.

hope this helps.

but overall, i agree.. apple needs to get off this IPS thing, especially for screens as large as the iMac.. it's just a terrible tech for anything larger than handheld devices.
 

thekev

macrumors 604
Aug 5, 2010
7,005
3,343
I'm not really sure if LCDs with local dimming can be made thin enough for apples standards, but I would be willing to sacrifice thinness for quality displays. An imac with a higher resolution and local dimming would kill all other displays in the computer category.

If Apple went the same route as NEC or Eizo with their engineering, it would hit the point of good enough for way more people. Unfortunately it does cost you something in black levels. I've never seen individually dimmable LEDs used in a computer display. Perhaps it's an issue of cost, but the aforementioned companies tend to deal with it as much as possible via design, then use panel blocking to further even it out. You lose a little contrast ratio, but if most of it can be addressed by better design in how the backlight is fit, it's not too bad. I get the impression that Apple's engineers have to work within whatever specs the designers present to a degree, but the iphone was their first real attempt at kicking up the quality of their displays.

Ok but what is exactly a normal bleeding? i read many quotes but i cannot really understand if my late 2012 27" is on the "normal" side. i have the typical bottom left white light (about 4") and some minor yellow lights at the top corners that are not really noticeable but i cannot fully understand how does the screen should be in order to be like it should (if a standard exists)

That is something that always annoyed me. Most companies will not tell you what is considered within spec. The guys doing many rounds of exchanges are out of their minds. After a couple if I wasn't lucky enough to get a really good one I would return or accept it.

but overall, i agree.. apple needs to get off this IPS thing, especially for screens as large as the iMac.. it's just a terrible tech for anything larger than handheld devices.

Other companies have used it with fewer issues for more than a decade.
 

rockmassif

macrumors newbie
May 9, 2013
10
0
two tests i found helpful.. the corner "bleeding" is actually not really backlight bleeding.. it's a function of poor viewing angles for IPS screens (ironic, isn't it?) First test, try standing further back (5-6 feet) and straight in front of the screen and see if the bleeding is still evident. The corners should start to look blacker as you stand further back.

second test, try centering your eyes around any potential bleed. If the bleed persists when you're dead ahead, it's probably real blacklight bleed.

Given that IPS has such horrible viewing angles for dark scenes, it becomes tricky to determine what's blacklight bleeding vs just poor viewing angles.

hope this helps.

but overall, i agree.. apple needs to get off this IPS thing, especially for screens as large as the iMac.. it's just a terrible tech for anything larger than handheld devices.

Thanks for the quick reply.
The problem is not exactly in the base of the corner. The center of the bleeding is about 2.5 inches on the right of the corner. As far the tests you suggested i can see the bleeding standing about 5 feet from the screen. As regards the second test when i move my head straight at the corner i can steel see the bleeding.

My bleeding is like yours but in smaller area as regards the two top corners and also about 1 inch less than your bottom left. Still noticable though as i watch lots of movies.


I would be very glad if you could post an image of your mac, as you posted that your problem is resolved after the two replacements, in order to be able to compare with mine.
 

rockmassif

macrumors newbie
May 9, 2013
10
0
Ok i managed to take some photos of my problem (if its not only before my eyes...)

the first set are in a totally dark room with the brightness
4/16 - 8/16 - 12/16 - 16/16



the second set is in a room with a little natural light



the third set are from watching a movie with 12/16 of brightness



and the last sets regars 4 photos taken with the camera centered in the corners. on the last set you can see that inthe top two and the bottom right corners, that the bleeding is cloudy, the bleeding becomes nearly invisible.
On the bottom left the bleeding that its source is about 2-3 cm from the corner remains.

 

jmhart

macrumors regular
Jun 14, 2012
127
0
With these LG IPS LCD panels it's nearly impossible to find a viewing angle that doesn't make at least one of the corners appear lighter than the rest of the screen. You'll notice if you look the screen from one side or the other, above, or below the corners that appear lighter should change. This type of backlight reflection/refraction is normal for this type of panel and you'll notice it has a very slight yellowish tinge to it.

However, any light spots that do not disappear when you change your viewing angle or are surrounded by areas of normal darkness on both sides are definitely backlight bleed and I would consider any that are noticeable like that to be completely unacceptable on machine as expensive as the iMac. No matter what you do, you're going to find some level of this on nearly every unit that comes off the production line--you just have to decide what level of bleed is acceptable to you. My tolerance for this kind of thing at this price is very low...

Please Apple, start putting better panels in your top of the line, $2k+ machines...for the love of all that is holy. :D

I expect this from my $250 32-inch LG IPS LCD TV that I use as a secondary monitor...where at least 1 or 2 corners are going to appear light regardless of viewing angle, but it's unacceptable to me in a machine of the iMac's caliber and price. I guess that's why I haven't bought a new iMac yet. :rolleyes:
 

rockmassif

macrumors newbie
May 9, 2013
10
0
With these LG IPS LCD panels it's nearly impossible to find a viewing angle that doesn't make at least one of the corners appear lighter than the rest of the screen. You'll notice if you look the screen from one side or the other, above, or below the corners that appear lighter should change.

However, any light spots that do not disappear when you change your viewing angle or are surrounded by areas of normal darkness on both sides are definitely backlight bleed and I would consider any that are noticeable like that to be completely unacceptable on machine as expensive as the iMac.

Please Apple, start putting better panels in your top of the line, $2k+ machines...for the love of all that is holy. :D

I expect this from my $250 32-inch LG IPS LCD TV that I use as a secondary monitor...where at least 1 or 2 corners are going to appear light regardless of viewing angle, but it's unacceptable to me in a machine of the iMac's caliber. I guess that's why I haven't bought a new iMac yet. :rolleyes:

yeahh....
i bought an imac after 12 years of a custom pentium4....
you can realize my disappointment as i took it from a reseller and i don't really know what to do as the first 14 days from the date i bought it have passed and i would not really enjoy to send it to apple and repair it by opening it.
 

Arfdog

macrumors 6502
Jan 25, 2013
377
0
I can scarcely believe this thread is still going. I didn't know so many people used their iMacs in the dark with the brightness at 100%, watching nothing but a blank screen. Apple's design really failed to consider this consumer! lol
 

rockmassif

macrumors newbie
May 9, 2013
10
0
I can scarcely believe this thread is still going. I didn't know so many people used their iMacs in the dark with the brightness at 100%, watching nothing but a blank screen. Apple's design really failed to consider this consumer! lol

Yeah maybe enjoying a movie in the dark with 3/4 of the brightness is finally too extreme to ask from a computer that costs over 2000.

If i have read about the problem and then tried to find it by watching a blank screen (that is by making a simple test) then yes you could be right. But i came to this thread otherwise, after not be able to enjoy a movie in 16/9 box. If the problem could be seen only by watching a blank screen i would't bother.

Of course you can also find many other threads that open day by day with many unhappy customers all complaining about the same problem.

Anyway i think this thread is about providing information about a engrossing problem not by declaring that "a cow is a chicken" and expecting the others to believe it.
 

Arfdog

macrumors 6502
Jan 25, 2013
377
0
Anyway i think this thread is about providing information about a engrossing problem not by declaring that "a cow is a chicken" and expecting the others to believe it.

This is certainly not an "engrossing" problem. I'm sorry such little things bother you. There's a thread where a guy had his new 27" pushed over the desk and it fell, smashing the screen and housing, no insurance. Maybe go check that out? Even the "clicking" issue (also on some threads here) is worse than this.
 

rockmassif

macrumors newbie
May 9, 2013
10
0
This is certainly not an "engrossing" problem. I'm sorry such little things bother you. There's a thread where a guy had his new 27" pushed over the desk and it fell, smashing the screen and housing, no insurance. Maybe go check that out? Even the "clicking" issue (also on some threads here) is worse than this.

Anyway i don't care about getting into an endless quote-fighting for what is better or worse. You have your aspect of quality, i have mine.
 

Arfdog

macrumors 6502
Jan 25, 2013
377
0
Anyway i don't care about getting into an endless quote-fighting for what is better or worse. You have your aspect of quality, i have mine.

I agree. I have quality standards too, so if you find a better PC that combines computing power, ease-of-use, energy and space efficiency, design, and cost, let us know. I'll sell my iMac to buy it.
 

Woyzeck

macrumors 6502
Nov 2, 2012
440
498
Here's mine (50% and 100% brightness on my 27 inch late 2012). What do you guys think?. I have until today to call for exchange. I used this youtube video to test: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WexJRnud32U. Used my 4S to take photos.

With such a screen it's impossible to do anything related to web design, print etc. (which the iMac is not engineered to do).

For office work it'll be ok. For the price of the machine it's a joke.
 

iamgalactic

macrumors regular
Apr 21, 2010
180
60
With such a screen it's impossible to do anything related to web design, print etc. (which the iMac is not engineered to do).

For office work it'll be ok. For the price of the machine it's a joke.

What do you mean not engineered to do? Nonsense. I, and many others, make a good living using our iMacs for exactly these purposes.

You are completely mistaken.
 

Woyzeck

macrumors 6502
Nov 2, 2012
440
498
What do you mean not engineered to do? Nonsense. I, and many others, make a good living using our iMacs for exactly these purposes.

You are completely mistaken.

At least for print you'd want to have a screen with wider color gamut. Even though the new iMac's displays are better than the previous ones the display is still only above average. There's a reason why those Eizos and NECs are expensive.
 

thekev

macrumors 604
Aug 5, 2010
7,005
3,343
At least for print you'd want to have a screen with wider color gamut. Even though the new iMac's displays are better than the previous ones the display is still only above average. There's a reason why those Eizos and NECs are expensive.

Gamut doesn't fix everything. A bigger issue with the imacs has been glare. I don't know if the new ones improve upon that. You can't see a number of spot colors either way as they fall outside of Adobe RGB, and there are plenty of people who use the imacs as you described anyway. An sRGB display isn't that big of a hindrance. The engineering in terms of backlight bleed isn't perfect, but the exposure with that photo was fairly bright. These photos generally aren't representative of what you see looking at one.
 

rockmassif

macrumors newbie
May 9, 2013
10
0
Gamut doesn't fix everything. A bigger issue with the imacs has been glare. I don't know if the new ones improve upon that. You can't see a number of spot colors either way as they fall outside of Adobe RGB, and there are plenty of people who use the imacs as you described anyway. An sRGB display isn't that big of a hindrance. The engineering in terms of backlight bleed isn't perfect, but the exposure with that photo was fairly bright. These photos generally aren't representative of what you see looking at one.

I didn't own a previous model 2011 but i have seen it one or two times and surely you are correct about the glare and the connection of the reality and the bleeding degree seen in the photos. That regards, at least in my case the hole surface of the screen apart the lower left corner where the bleeding is not cloudy but coming from a specific point.
That bleeding regardless the pov, ambient light etc is very much representative.
 
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