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chrmjenkins

macrumors 603
Oct 29, 2007
5,325
158
MD
Gaming PCs are 10-20 times more powerful than an xbox360... yet, xboxes are selling well, and PCs aren't. This suggests that more power isn't necessary for huge sales. In previous console generations, people were still buying more powerful PCs. That's the big difference, this generation.

Big box PCs are selling poorer. The enthusiast community is doing just fine.
 

Mrbobb

macrumors 603
Aug 27, 2012
5,009
209
I thought NVDIA is the king of GPUs?

Then the Canadian ATI

Then perhaps AMD.

In that order. I thought Apple want A players only.
 

junctionscu

macrumors newbie
Nov 17, 2011
22
0
They could do the same for the GPU cores.

Beyond that as SoC become more and more integrated you need closer access to the GPU IP to better integrate it.

True but who is to say they are moving completely away from ImTechs cores. These guys could be doing a number of things to optimize those cores.


A highly optimized chip for heterogeneous computing would be my guess. AMD by the way was leading the way with respect to heterogeneous computing so it is no surprise that Apple targeted AMD. We might end up seeing a chip that is built in such a way that you can't even distinguish the ARM and ImgTech components. Another possibility here is that these guys will target the floating Point and vector processor capabilities built into Apples current processors. Again the potential exists to merge the ARM vector capability with that of the GPU effectively shrinking the chip while scaling performance. Apple could go so far as to drop ARM vector support all together and force all vector processing onto the GPU. In a true heterogeneous environment this would be totally transparent to the user code.

As a side note Apple has been very vocal about getting developers to use Apple supplied libraries for vector processing. This may be to keep developers away from native instructions that won't be around long.

Frankly the above are just a couple of things that first popped into my mind. There are many many other reasons to bring these people on line.


I wonder whether this is part of the Bob Mansfield "ambitious plans for the future" projects. I agree that this is not about making a new graphics IP but in some way tweaking it to Apple's needs. Perhaps an entirely new way to think about graphics on an SoC?
 

mdriftmeyer

macrumors 68040
Feb 2, 2004
3,810
1,985
Pacific Northwest
Apple's not building a new GPU. They are optimizing/customizing designs of their new CPU with a customized design of licensed ImgTec IP, combined with their own add-on IP that deals with multi-core, memory management and more.

Read some patents granted to Apple. They will have the latest custom 6 series ImgTec with their latest ARM64 ready multi-core CPU in their own SoC.
 

bigwig

macrumors 6502a
Sep 15, 2005
679
0
ImgTec also recently acquired MIPS. I only see Apple cores getting more custom in the future.
As much as I love MIPS, what does a GPU supplier get for buying a general-purpose CPU architecture?
 
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McDave

macrumors newbie
So I wonder what spurs this move for Apple to create its own GPU design center. What are they looking for that Imgtech has not provided them? What are they going to use these resources to do?

Hmm, a 14-15 megapixel 27" Retina display could to with some final compositing/processing & h.265 decode on the monitor itself to reduce Thunderbolt2 video bandwidth. Or perhaps we'll see a custom GPU instruction set in the A7 to render CoreGraphics/QuartzCore in Microcode?
 

palmharbor

macrumors 6502
Jul 31, 2007
408
0
CA people, Beware of Florida

I find it wonderful that Apple is beefing up its Florida presence!

Oh, and neato for graphics technology. And orange juice.
_______________________________________________________
Anyone transferring from California, be aware that Florida's culture
is about 30 years behind. Criminal offense for shops to sell a Bong.
Criminal offense for possession of any amount of marijuana. Jail
provided. No Medical Marijuana....aligator clip found in your car
gets an arrest. Legal by legislation to bring your gun to work.
No stipulation as to what kind. Over a million people carrying
concealed firearms. Florida is Mississippi with Disneyland.
 

otismotive77

macrumors 6502
May 18, 2013
467
0
looks like the next iphone is gonna have an awesome GPU. apple is really bringing completely new things to the users this year: a newly designed iOS, new and better display, better camera, the 128 GB memory, NFC, new GPU, etc. i think these major improvements might force apple to name the next iphone the "iphone 6".
 

beaniemyman

macrumors 6502
May 19, 2013
301
0
looks like the next iphone is gonna have an awesome GPU. apple is really bringing completely new things to the users this year: a newly designed iOS, new and better display, better camera, the 128 GB memory, NFC, new GPU, etc. i think these major improvements might force apple to name the next iphone the "iphone 6".

yep, there's no doubt the next iphone would offer awesome graphics, but i dont think the next iphone would be called iphone 6 it'd be called iphone5s and i dont think we would see nfc, 128gb memory,etc. in the upcoming iphone.
 

Renzatic

Suspended
Gaming PCs are 10-20 times more powerful than an xbox360... yet, xboxes are selling well, and PCs aren't. This suggests that more power isn't necessary for huge sales. In previous console generations, people were still buying more powerful PCs. That's the big difference, this generation.

PC sales have taken a big hit this year, but that doesn't mean they're selling poorly all around. OEMs still pushed close to 100,000,000 out the doors, even while taking a 15% drop overall.

While it's no longer a sure thing, the death of the PC is very much fiction.
 

blitzer09x87

macrumors 6502
May 19, 2013
408
0
i hope they use this great new GPU chip in their upcoming iphone. iphone really needs to adopt the best and latest specs.
 

agmaster

macrumors newbie
Nov 17, 2010
27
0
Speaking of traffic I hope Apple insures these guys well. Florida has possibly the worst drivers in the country, very inconsiderate. I spent a week down there for vacation a couple of years ago. For one week I saw way to many major car crashes - very disturbing. Maybe I was unlucky but I lost several hours over the course of the week waiting for wrecks to be cleared, pretty nasty looking wrecks too.

Yeah, the I-4 / Orlando area is full of ***hole drivers that are more likely to cause accidents than any other part of the state of FL. My proof, I live 45 min away.

Anyways, how awesome would it be if Apple decided to make its own mobile graphics chip for laptops that could rival the latest stuff from AMD & Nvidia. If only the Mac-side of Apple were more important to them than iOS stuff...
 

chrmjenkins

macrumors 603
Oct 29, 2007
5,325
158
MD
I wonder what this means for AMD. AMD has been making some great graphics cards lately; hopefully that doesn't stop

AMD is doing fine with their graphics cards and they just got design wins on all 3 next gen consoles. It's their CPU side that's hurting.
 

Wolfpup

macrumors 68030
Sep 7, 2006
2,927
105
Indeed. This is big boy stuff that only AMD and Nvidia really do. Even Intel has outsourced some of their IGPs to be Imagination Technologies IP. No doubt Apple is doing custom implementations of their architectures (they are also a 10% owner in ImgTec). ImgTec also recently acquired MIPS. I only see Apple cores getting more custom in the future.

This is what I don't understand-PowerVR's stuff has been very competitive, scalable, and served Apple well...AND Apple's even a 10% owner, and they're not even the only choice Apple has.

Why is Apple reinventing the wheel here?
 

MACchine

macrumors newbie
Jun 3, 2013
4
0
Connect the IP ...

Funny, I have spent time driving all over Orlando, I NEVER noticed bad drivers, I guess that is because I am from California where they give licenses to illiterate illegals who stop every chance they get because they are scared, can't read the signs, and are driving a car for the first times in their lives. I DID like the many empty side streets in Florida, but the tolls were quite annoying, and lots of roads to nowhere!

Everyone commenting here is failing to connect the IP dots:(

APPLE has a patent for multilayered displays to create 3D displays, certainly this group will be creating GPU to for these displays and experimenting with creating software to render 3D from 2D imaging, or they will build 3D cameras and GPU;)

I wonder if the flattening of the interface and icons might be because they will soon ship some kind of layered 3D display that will show icons as CUBES and they need simple graphics to conserve processing power:eek:

This would mean the much publicised schism between Ive and Forestal was ALL THEATER in lieu of this new techs roll out;)

Now let me tell you about the OLD FOGEY drivers in Cali. who shake their fist at you if you ride a bike staying in the bike lane, they get all freaked out because they don't notice the bike lanes and would not have the FOGGIEST as to how they work even if they did notice them:rolleyes:
 

LarryC

macrumors 6502
Jul 19, 2002
419
33
North America
Speaking of traffic I hope Apple insures these guys well. Florida has possibly the worst drivers in the country, very inconsiderate. I spent a week down there for vacation a couple of years ago. For one week I saw way to many major car crashes - very disturbing. Maybe I was unlucky but I lost several hours over the course of the week waiting for wrecks to be cleared, pretty nasty looking wrecks too.

It is a pretty fast paced type of place. And then when you add in the snowbirds who come down to FL for the winter--the population triples, and most of those winter residents are the blue haired old ladies from Ohio, Indiana, New York, etc. It is a recipe for problems. I used to live in Melbourne and I did not notice a lot of wrecks. Of course that was 26 years ago…I probably wouldn't recognize that city now.

As for Apple hiring these people away from AMD, Apple would be mad as hell if another tech company did the same to them.
 

theBB

macrumors 68020
Jan 3, 2006
2,453
3
I guess the XBox division, the Playstation division and Nintendo beg to differ.
Nintendo has been losing money on operations two years straight and the sales of its mobile and console sales have been disappointingly low.

Xbox has spent a ton of money getting into the market during its first half decade and started losing money again last year, more than four quarters before its new version was expected to go on sale, that it is quite possible Xbox has not made money over its lifetime. If it made money, it is possible it would not cover the return that would come from buying Treasury bonds. It is better than MS online division, but that is faint prize.

I am not all that familiar with Playstation, but I doubt its sales are any better.

Anyways, what do you think these guys would beg about?
 

Wolfpup

macrumors 68030
Sep 7, 2006
2,927
105
I am not all that familiar with Playstation, but I doubt its sales are any better.

Sony's profitable, though it took a while given how expensive their current system was at launch, which is probably why both companies are going lower end this time (although the Playstation 4 is still 50% more powerful than Xbox 3/One...and apparently lets you actually own games LOL).
 

chrmjenkins

macrumors 603
Oct 29, 2007
5,325
158
MD
This is what I don't understand-PowerVR's stuff has been very competitive, scalable, and served Apple well...AND Apple's even a 10% owner, and they're not even the only choice Apple has.

Why is Apple reinventing the wheel here?

They have compute aspirations, likely want to do custom memory interfaces and probably have a lot of OS statistics on resource utilization to balance their designs on.
 

swagi

macrumors 6502a
Sep 6, 2007
905
123
Nintendo has been losing money on operations two years straight and the sales of its mobile and console sales have been disappointingly low.

Yep - their WiiU doesn't ignite any fancy in me. And I guess I am not alone. The Wii was a success sales-wide but deteriorated the branding image, as there were nearly no great games from third party developers. Your point?

Xbox has spent a ton of money getting into the market during its first half decade and started losing money again last year, more than four quarters before its new version was expected to go on sale, that it is quite possible Xbox has not made money over its lifetime. If it made money, it is possible it would not cover the return that would come from buying Treasury bonds. It is better than MS online division, but that is faint prize.

Strangely and oddly just a page back there is the link to the article speaking about sold XBoxes and profit. But keep insisting on holding on to your beliefs. You will drool over WWDC next week, as I will drool over E3. And this years E3 will rock!

I am not all that familiar with Playstation, but I doubt its sales are any better.

Anyways, what do you think these guys would beg about?

Well - there are more than 50 million consoles in the wild of every hardware maker. I guess Apple - the ones who are claimed to outperform consoles makers and themselves are claiming to "revolutionize the gaming market" - still has a far way to go with only about 14 million Apple TVs in the wild.

So in the end - and that was my point - neither MS nor Sony are envious of Apple's gaming efforts and neither of them is giving up their gaming division as there is no money to be made (which is what some forum user claimed).

Heck, do you even know the numbers of XBox Live or PSN-subscriptions?
 

theBB

macrumors 68020
Jan 3, 2006
2,453
3
Yep - their WiiU doesn't ignite any fancy in me. And I guess I am not alone. The Wii was a success sales-wide but deteriorated the branding image, as there were nearly no great games from third party developers. Your point?
Last gen Wii was a sales success, but new one? Disappointing. You were the one who claimed that Nintendo would be among those begging to differ on the bleak outlook prediction for consoles, so you are the one in need of point/proof to back up that claim.

Strangely and oddly just a page back there is the link to the article speaking about sold XBoxes and profit. But keep insisting on holding on to your beliefs.
You can calculate how much Xbox lost money during the first Xbox and the initial phases of Xbox 360, how much profit it made during the middle part of Xbox 360 life cycle and how much it lost during the last year, with one or two more quarters of piddly sales results still to come. It is not a "belief" when you can do the math. If you ignore losses from the first gen Xbox, you might come away with a better impression.

You will drool over WWDC next week, as I will drool over E3. And this years E3 will rock!
The products may be exciting, the entertainment might be awesome, but if your drool does not pay the bills for all these three console makers, it is not a good business.

Well - there are more than 50 million consoles in the wild of every hardware maker.
You are comparing a whole industry with the set-top box sales from one company. Xbox 360 sold 10 million. Oops that is less than Apple TV sales. Are you still "slow hand clapping"?

If you take out Nintendo who is already circling the drain, only about 24 million between Sony and Xbox who still have aspirations for their next gen consoles and enthusiastic potential buyers. Apple TV sales of 13 million, most of it during the last few years, does not sound so bad now. You can add Roku sales to the mix and now you've got a set-top market comparable in unit sales to consoles, without even considering the smart TVs and Blu-Ray players that integrate some of these set-top box functionalities.
 
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