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CristobalHuet

macrumors 65816
Jan 18, 2008
1,166
3
Montreal
What is wrong with Simplenote? It syncs with all kinds of platform, it's free, it has a quite simplistic UI?

Not that this app might not be better, but if you like this app better than Notes, I would assume, you also would like Simplenote better than Notes.

I've had reliability issues with Simplenote - lost all my data once, haven't trusted it since.
 

manu chao

macrumors 604
Jul 30, 2003
7,219
3,031
I've had reliability issues with Simplenote - lost all my data once, haven't trusted it since.
Don't you have local copies on your Mac? And backups of your Mac? For stuff that only exists in the cloud without local copies (of which I have multiple backups), I'am also a bit wary.
 

nutmac

macrumors 603
Mar 30, 2004
6,053
7,315
I bought it earlier this morning and I like what I see so far.

Few things worth pointing out:
  • Considering how Gruber created Markdown, lack of support for Markdown is a bit surprising. I would love WYSIWYG Markdown editing.
  • Since the app is not yet available for iPad, missing sync is understandable. But email and messages-based sharing is a bit lame. At the very least, I should be able to share all the notes in a tag or individual notes to another Vesper user more directly.
  • I am not completely sold on the choice of font. It's a bit heavy for my taste.
  • I am also not too crazy about the choice of color (cerulean cyan).
  • There doesn't appear to be a way to rename a tag.
  • Archiving is easy. Deleting is not.
 

primalman

macrumors 6502a
Jul 23, 2002
619
3
at the end of the hall
That post about a $5 app not being expensive makes more sense all of a sudden.

Beat me to it. Exactly why I was thinking. And yes, use simple and simplistic correctly please.

----------

lol, the app name is Vesper and the company name is Q branch,
me think they all are fans of bond. :cool:

Yes, gruber is. Had a whole show deconstructing one if the movies.
 

ValSalva

macrumors 68040
Jun 26, 2009
3,783
259
Burpelson AFB
The new iOS 7-like look of this app makes the iOS 6 keyboard stand out like a sore thumb. I bet that gets changed/tweaked in iOS 7.
 

roadbloc

macrumors G3
Aug 24, 2009
8,784
215
UK
Well basically, the app stinks, especially for the price. Sorry Gruber. Never really liked you anyway. Always had your head up Apple's rectum.
 

lseven

macrumors newbie
May 5, 2006
15
0
I searched quite a bit for a good notes / to-do list / outliner solution. I landed on Workflowy. It is web-based so automatically syncs with any computer, iOS device, etc. They are pretty new so still working on a native app, offline editing, etc.

Vesper looks interesting but without desktop support and syncing it is a no-go at this time. Also I like the Evernote/Workflowy model... free for limited use to try it out, then pay once you decide you can't live without it (which I have done for both). I have contributed plenty of dollars to apps I try for a few days and then delete! :(

PM me if you want a referral link that will get both of us more free notes per month. I am not posting this to push it... I am a paid Pro user so the free notes won't help me at the moment but would help someone new.
 

BillPetro

macrumors newbie
Sep 28, 2006
4
0
Colorado Springs
"Simplistic" a word used by simplistic people for whom "simple" is too simple.

Can we please stop saying "simplistic" when we apparently mean "simple"? The two words don't mean the same thing. MacRumors, if you're going to characterize a new product like this as "simplistic," then please at least say what you think is wrong with it. And if it indeed is simplistic, why report its release?
 

theBB

macrumors 68020
Jan 3, 2006
2,453
3
I don't want to wade through a ton of note taking apps. The two others that got a lot of mentions were Simplenote and Evernote. I like neither enough to stop using Notes. Vesper comes closest to what I need, it looks good and price is cheap enough.

Syncing with other iOS devices and a web interface would make it perfect for me. I have a feeling iOS sync is relatively easy for them to do and it may even come along in due course, but I am not sure if this small team will ever add a web interface. I used the web interface of Notes only once or twice, but it was an awesome feature when I needed it.

Of course, my dream wishlist feature is an ability to add a one button link to a particular note from Calendar events or Reminders. That probably requires a whole new app suite that ties up reminders, calendar, notes and email. :(
 

springsup

macrumors 65816
Feb 14, 2013
1,222
1,209
This has definitely reduced my opinion of John Gruber.

Here are a couple of headlines from around the web:

"Vesper, a minimalist notes app from John Gruber and Brent Simmons (hands-on)" (The Verge)
"Development Team Led by John Gruber Releases New Note-Taking App Vesper" (MacRumors)
"Daring Fireball’s John Gruber and friends launch Vesper note capture app" (9to5Mac)

I think it shows an absolute lack of journalistic integrity to use your name and fame to promote a product in an area you're so intimately involved with.

It's also a slap in the face to independent developers (such as myself). Even if you have the greatest idea in the world, with the best interaction & visual design, the best programming, etc - the hardest thing about launching an App is getting the word out (promotion).

Gruber just got more promotion than any of us could ever get; and he did it by sullying his name for a not-particularly-innovative App.

Read any of the reviews I mentioned above (or even MR's own), and you'll notice they have very little to say about the app itself and much more about the people behind it. I've got to say I expected much more from Gruber and I'm shocked he would have the gall to do this.
 
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wizard

macrumors 68040
May 29, 2003
3,854
571
If it doesn't sync with my iPad and Mini, then it's not for me! :(

Yep a huge fail. I suppose they are working on IPad variants but this app is useless to me without syncing support. Oh and by the way syncing to the Mac is in order too.

Sadly I get the impression that this comes close to what I need in a notes app
 
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wizard

macrumors 68040
May 29, 2003
3,854
571
No Sync? No thanks.
I hope that's temporary until they have, e.g., clients for other platforms to sync with.

Interesting, though.
With those names behind it, it will get massive exposure and piles of fawning reviews even if the app was crap (not saying it is).
Well I'm going to give reviewers some credit here. As it is right now the app isn't ready for prime time! That due to syncing and companion apps on the Mac and iPad.
I'm actually OK with Apple's note app, especially if they get rid of the yellow lined paper background and the goofy font.
This thread interests me a lot due to my extensive use of Apples note app. The biggest problem with notes app is the lack of editing capability on the iOS devices. What is even more frustrating is that the newer Mac OS app is much better done and supports some of those needed editing capabilities. I'm really hoping that app parity is the battle cry for iOS devices.

By the way you can change the goofy font. More so important notes can be edited in Mac OS, strangely enough the iOS apps will display a number of different fonts even if you only have 3 to choose from when editing on iOS devices. As for yellow it doesn't bother me that much.
 

mw360

macrumors 68020
Aug 15, 2010
2,032
2,395
Don't you have local copies on your Mac? And backups of your Mac? For stuff that only exists in the cloud without local copies (of which I have multiple backups), I'am also a bit wary.

One of the points of cloud computing is that it can be your back-up. Your data is supposed to be safer up there on a professional server farm than it is on your own devices.

I've had the same problems with Simplenote (losing an entire and very long document), and since there's no desktop sync (that I recall) there was no local copy to recover.

After also getting tired of their reluctance to encrypt user data on their servers I moved to Writeroom, which is more customisable, syncs very well via Dropbox, and therefore stores my data encrypted, backed-up, versioned, and duplicated on all my desktops.
 

theBB

macrumors 68020
Jan 3, 2006
2,453
3
I think it shows an absolute lack of journalistic integrity to use your name and fame to promote a product in an area you're so intimately involved with.
He is not a journalist. He expresses his opinions about certain topics, so that he can get ads on his blog, get consultancy fees etc. There is far less conflict of interest here than tech sites receiving advertising from makers of products they review or newspapers taking advertising from car companies they cover. His relationship to the product in question is clearly visible to the public. If he says something about his product, you can either take his word for it or not, fully aware of his financial stake. With the two other examples above? You cannot.

It's also a slap in the face to independent developers (such as myself). Even if you have the greatest idea in the world, with the best interaction & visual design, the best programming, etc - the hardest thing about launching an App is getting the word out (promotion).
What makes you think he owes it you and must go through the same struggle? Do you unplug all your electronics 2 hours a day in the afternoon to make sure you don't have an *unfair* advantage over developers living in India?

Gruber just got more promotion than any of us could ever get; and he did it by sullying his name for a not-particularly-innovative App.
Eh? He had an idea, he got together with his friends and he implemented it into a product. Where is the sullying? Others are covering his product, because he is known for his sharp opinions about software UI design and there are many who are genuinely curious what he would do if he was the designer. Jealous?
 

theBB

macrumors 68020
Jan 3, 2006
2,453
3
It's not just you. Which is odd, since Gruber is styles himself as a typography junkie.
What is it that you don't like? It is a calm, legible and distinct sans serif font. Maybe it is just the two of you. :)
 

ValSalva

macrumors 68040
Jun 26, 2009
3,783
259
Burpelson AFB
This has definitely reduced my opinion of John Gruber.

Here are a couple of headlines from around the web:

"Vesper, a minimalist notes app from John Gruber and Brent Simmons (hands-on)" (The Verge)
"Development Team Led by John Gruber Releases New Note-Taking App Vesper" (MacRumors)
"Daring Fireball’s John Gruber and friends launch Vesper note capture app" (9to5Mac)

I think it shows an absolute lack of journalistic integrity to use your name and fame to promote a product in an area you're so intimately involved with.

It's also a slap in the face to independent developers (such as myself). Even if you have the greatest idea in the world, with the best interaction & visual design, the best programming, etc - the hardest thing about launching an App is getting the word out (promotion).

Gruber just got more promotion than any of us could ever get; and he did it by sullying his name for a not-particularly-innovative App.

Read any of the reviews I mentioned above (or even MR's own), and you'll notice they have very little to say about the app itself and much more about the people behind it. I've got to say I expected much more from Gruber and I'm shocked he would have the gall to do this.

I can see your points. Maybe he isn't a journalist as others have said - which is convenient because when bloggers want to be taken seriously they call themselves journalists.

I just wonder if releasing this app makes him less credible because now John has more of a personal stake in whether Apple succeeds or fails. This feels a little as if he bought a bunch of Apple stock.

It's different when Marco Arment and other developers write and have podcasts. We listen to them specifically due to their experience as Apple developers. I believe we listen to and read John because of his skills at writing, his insider connections at Apple, and his objective insights. Now the latter is at least a little more questionable.
 

CristobalHuet

macrumors 65816
Jan 18, 2008
1,166
3
Montreal
Don't you have local copies on your Mac? And backups of your Mac? For stuff that only exists in the cloud without local copies (of which I have multiple backups), I'am also a bit wary.

When I started using Simplenote, it was on my iPad (1) and iPhone at the time only. My usage only lasted a couple of weeks.

----------

I bought it earlier this morning and I like what I see so far.

Few things worth pointing out:
  • Considering how Gruber created Markdown, lack of support for Markdown is a bit surprising. I would love WYSIWYG Markdown editing.
  • Since the app is not yet available for iPad, missing sync is understandable. But email and messages-based sharing is a bit lame. At the very least, I should be able to share all the notes in a tag or individual notes to another Vesper user more directly.
  • I am not completely sold on the choice of font. It's a bit heavy for my taste.
  • I am also not too crazy about the choice of color (cerulean cyan).
  • There doesn't appear to be a way to rename a tag.
  • Archiving is easy. Deleting is not.

Deleting is actually very easy. It's in the share (counterintuitive) menu in note view.
 

springsup

macrumors 65816
Feb 14, 2013
1,222
1,209
He is not a journalist. He expresses his opinions about certain topics, so that he can get ads on his blog, get consultancy fees etc. There is far less conflict of interest here than tech sites receiving advertising from makers of products they review or newspapers taking advertising from car companies they cover. His relationship to the product in question is clearly visible to the public. If he says something about his product, you can either take his word for it or not, fully aware of his financial stake. With the two other examples above? You cannot.

He's quick enough to lecture others on professional ethics!

He's quick enough, for example, when others fail to correctly attribute a source, to start failing to attribute the Wall Street Journal. In a recent example, he linked to criticism of a Wikipedia editor who had conflicts of interest. He clearly thinks of himself as a journalist and as a reader I expected him to follow some ethics on this.

As for the magnitude of the conflict, he could not have a bigger conflict of interest if he was Elon Musk writing the motoring column. Is he failing to report on great apps because it might threaten his personal gain? Can he even objectively judge what a great app is anymore, or are they now held to some greater standard because he wants to protect his personal profit?

What makes you think he owes it you and must go through the same struggle? Do you unplug all your electronics 2 hours a day in the afternoon to make sure you don't have an *unfair* advantage over developers living in India?

Eh? He had an idea, he got together with his friends and he implemented it into a product. Where is the sullying? Others are covering his product, because he is known for his sharp opinions about software UI design and there are many who are genuinely curious what he would do if he was the designer. Jealous?

My electricity supply is totally irrelevant; Gruber's fame has been built as a journalist/blogger (the line is blurry) and he continues to do that to this day (AFAIK, DaringFireball isn't shutting down). Take a look at NPR's ethics handbook; they make it clear that you must avoid both real and apparent conflicts of interests (after all, you must remain trustworthy to your readers).

Journalists regularly recuse themselves from coverage on topics where they have a potential conflict (such as the political journalist whose spouse is an advisor to a particular campaign). Similarly, John Gruber would not have been the first journalist in history to forgo a business opportunity because it would have tainted his journalism or independence.

As a reader, I'm upset because it's a major, major ethical lapse from somebody I know should know better. It has absolutely reduced Gruber's trustworthiness in my eyes.

As an app developer, I think firstly that it's wrong for products to be promoted based on celebrity rather than merit, although I don't blame the outlets for covering it - I blame Gruber for getting himself in to this mess. Even that wouldn't be so bad, though, if it wasn't a journalist; that adds gross unprofessionalism to the mix.

Wikipedia defines conflicts of interest:

More generally, conflicts of interest can be defined as any situation in which an individual or corporation (either private or governmental) is in a position to exploit a professional or official capacity in some way for their personal or corporate benefit.

If he just wanted to make an app for creative reasons, he could have donated the money to charity, for example, to stop himself (in reality or in appearance) personally financially benefitting from his professional responsibilities as a journalist. Now that he's playing the App game for personal profits, his position has shifted enormously.
 
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