Samsung Electronics loses $12 billion market value on smartphone worries

Samsung doomed?

http://www.zdnet.com/samsung-shares-plummet-over-galaxy-s4-profit-fears-7000016526/

http://stream.wsj.com/story/latest-headlines/SS-2-63399/SS-2-247837/

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2273464/samsung-shares-dive-over-slowing-galaxy-s4-sales

I'd love to see what some of you come up with for these articles....

Perhaps Samsung isn't as invincible as people think? Perhaps the HTC One is actually doing rather well? Perhaps there is excitement for what Apple will be unveiling?

All interesting topics of discussion.

Doomed really, that seems a bit over the top. Sure the S4 isn't much different then the S3, and the HTC One seems sexier so its conceivable its not selling as well, but saying doomed

maflynn said:

Doomed really, that seems a bit over the top. Sure the S4 isn't much different then the S3, and the HTC One seems sexier so its conceivable its not selling as well, but saying doomed

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Completely agree......much like I think Apple isn't doomed.

Really my posting of this was to see if we would get some similar defenses from the Samsung crowd that they mock coming from the Apple crowd.

Of course Samsung isn't doomed.....but people have been crying that Apple's doomed for years....sometimes being faced with your own ignorance can wake you up.

I really think the One has taken it to the GS4.....surprising? Perhaps.....the One is an excellent device but given the way Samsung is talked about, you'd think they were some unstoppable force that's ready to wipe out all competitors.

Here we see, that's not the case. And for all its trying, Samsung isn't Apple yet....

maflynn said:

Doomed really, that seems a bit over the top. Sure the S4 isn't much different then the S3, and the HTC One seems sexier so its conceivable its not selling as well, but saying doomed

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I agree. Competition doing well and a 'tock' update to your premier handset don't spell disaster.

I am eager to see what Apple does with the iPhone 6 (since the 5s will be an update, a tock very similar to what Sammy did with the S4), may even consider it if it has the features I need in a 'with me all of the time' handset.

But I know that there will be tough comp for it and the any other worthy handset. From what I can tell, even the Note III will be an incremental update. Bigger screen, and a bunch of features/improvements from the Note 8 and the S4.

jrswizzle said:

Completely agree......much like I think Apple isn't doomed.

Really my posting of this was to see if we would get some similar defenses from the Samsung crowd that they mock coming from the Apple crowd.

Of course Samsung isn't doomed.....but people have been crying that Apple's doomed for years....sometimes being faced with your own ignorance can wake you up.

I really think the One has taken it to the GS4.....surprising? Perhaps.....the One is an excellent device but given the way Samsung is talked about, you'd think they were some unstoppable force that's ready to wipe out all competitors.

Here we see, that's not the case. And for all its trying, Samsung isn't Apple yet....

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Not surprising at all actually, leap-frogging is what the tech industry does. It's been doing it for decades. At one point HTC phones were top notch and going head to head with Nokia. Now, Nokia is what . . . . fifth in line?

I am sure the landscape will change with more substantial updates to handsets.

Anyone saying any company is "doomed" because of a new product has lost their mind. Even Nokia and Blackberry are still in the game and they fell FAAAAARRRRRR from the top.

maflynn said:

Doomed really, that seems a bit over the top. Sure the S4 isn't much different then the S3, and the HTC One seems sexier so its conceivable its not selling as well, but saying doomed

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S4 is the #1 selling phone in the US. And has sold more than 10million in a month. Yep, for sure they are doomed.

I don't think anybody is doomed. As with everything, markets fall and rise; public opinions change and newer fresher products can made differences. This just could be simply a case that the majority of people who have a smartphones still have contracts to ride out before they can get a new one.

Assault said:

S4 is the #1 selling phone in the US. And has sold more than 10million in a month. Yep, for sure they are doomed.

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HA....

Haven't heard that before.....oh wait, that's what we all say every time someone cries "Apple is doomed" and they go on to release the most popular smartphone each year.....

Exactly the type of response I expected.

Assault said:

S4 is the #1 selling phone in the US. And has sold more than 10million in a month. Yep, for sure they are doomed.

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Samsung don't release sales figures so where did you get this info from?

Digital Skunk said:

Not surprising at all actually, leap-frogging is what the tech industry does. It's been doing it for decades. At one point HTC phones were top notch and going head to head with Nokia. Now, Nokia is what . . . . fifth in line?

I am sure the landscape will change with more substantial updates to handsets.

Anyone saying any company is "doomed" because of a new product has lost their mind. Even Nokia and Blackberry are still in the game and they fell FAAAAARRRRRR from the top.

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Brilliance. Exactly my point - goes for Apple and Samsung and ANY of these companies.

Heck look at HTC.....they're making a comeback even with all the internal turmoil.

Rogifan said:

Samsung Electronics loses $12 billion market value on smartphone worries

SEOUL (Reuters) - Samsung Electronics Co lost $12 billion in market value on Friday, hit by brokerage downgrades that have underscored concerns about slowing sales of its flagship Galaxy S4 smartphone. <snip>

If this is a genuine slowdown in high end smartphone sales it will be interesting to see how this affects Apple when they release the next iPhone.

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Much better introduction to the thread, and one that asks a better question.

I don't think it's a slowdown at all. I think the market needs to remember that users can't keep updating smartphones as quickly as iPods and tablets. The two year agreement we in the states have to sign pretty much seals us into having the phone for two years before we go looking for a replacement.

My wife and I bought our Sammy's in December and January. So, in January of 2014, our first year will be up.

Besides, it's an old article but one that's still relevant if you ask me, most don't upgrade with every iteration.

In the article, if you replace Samsung with Apple, and Galaxy with iPhone, the majority of it sounds like the typical Apple news article.

aristobrat said:

In the article, if you replace Samsung with Apple, and Galaxy with iPhone, the majority of it sounds like the typical Apple news article.

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Was just about to write that exactly same thing.....
But then haters will hate.....usually people with agendas post all the doom stuff....

maflynn said:

Doomed really, that seems a bit over the top. Sure the S4 isn't much different then the S3, and the HTC One seems sexier so its conceivable its not selling as well, but saying doomed

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That is absurd (saying it is doomed) but I am starting to think that the sheen of high-end phones is wearing off (not with techies but the general public). Clearly not commoditization, but something else.

There is a general malaise creeping in at the high-end market. HTC One? I have one and really like it. That said, HTC's stock price started Monday off with a bang, going up some 4% but since then it has had a drip-drip erosion, with articles like this not helping it:

http://focustaiwan.tw/search/201306060008.aspx?q=htc

That said, I find this extract a bit ridiculous (not the whole article):

"In a separate report, U.S. bank Citigroup Inc. said that the new HTC One is "not enough for a turnaround" for HTC. The bank kept a "sell" rating on HTC shares and a NT$205 target price.

Kevin Chang, a Taipei-based analyst at Citigroup, estimated the new HTC One shipments at 3 million units in the second quarter and at only 2.5 million to 2.8 million units in the third quarter."

HTC in May had supposedly 5 million unit sales of the One in just over a month and the unaudited May results seemingly reflect this (almost $1 billion in sales). To believe that only 3 million units will be sold between April and June does not add up. And before anybody starts comparing calendar quarters and fiscal quarters, HTC's Q2 fiscal quarter is indeed April to June.

MonkeySee.... said:

Samsung don't release sales figures so where did you get this info from?

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You are both correct

Samsung stopped releasing *unit* sales figures in 2011 in terms of their quarterly and annual audited results. You simply get total sales in Korean Won.

However, in conference calls, etc they often do specify, in broad terms, unit sales.

Coincidently, that 6% capitalisation drop of 12 billion dollars is same amount Samsung is believed to be spending on tap dancing boys and MacRumor shills in 2013.



http://www.asymco.com/2012/11/29/the-cost-of-selling-galaxies/

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2013/04/20/apple-samsung-dirty-tricks/

It's bad when the New York Times (the publication that seems like it will rip Apple anytime it can lately) calls out the analyst comments in the "Samsung is the #1 selling phone in the US" piece that you're talking about.

"That may look like a milestone, but the report should be taken with a grain of salt."...

"The survey doesn’t include Apple’s retail stores, where many iPhones are sold."

"Also, strong performance in May alone doesn’t mean Samsung has crushed Apple in the United States over all."...

"What Samsung’s strong performance in May reveals is that the South Korean manufacturer has figured out how to make good use of the months between iPhone upgrades, when the current iPhone is getting old and its sales are slowing."...

"In other words, Samsung has taken advantage of the predictability of the iPhone release cycle."...

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http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/05/samsung-may-have-surpassed-apple-in-the-u-s-for-now/

Personally, I agree with you. Samsung is far from doomed. I just don't think that analyst report you're talking about is a strong case to cite.

Well, I'm glad the gloom and doom article came out. Samsung is up nearly $10 a share.

Assault said:

Well, I'm glad the gloom and doom article came out. Samsung is up nearly $10 a share.

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Just points out how idiotic most of these gloom and doom articles are!

Assault said:

Well, I'm glad the gloom and doom article came out. Samsung is up nearly $10 a share.

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Actually the market is closed in Seoul (it closes at 2:15 am EST Mon-Friday for those in NA) and I don't know where you are getting this figure from. Here is the closing for Friday on the KSE:

http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/overview?symbol=005930.KS

The stock is down just over 6%.

First of all, a stripped down S4 =/= trade in program. I don't know how you can even insinuate that the two are equal and Samsung is copying off Apple. Second of all, Apple's stripped down iPhone and trade in programs are rumors at this point so you're accusing Samsung of copying a non-existent product.

MonkeySee.... said:

Samsung don't release sales figures so where did you get this info from?

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He made it up. Just like he made up the part about Samsung shares being up. The shares were down 6.18% friday.

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quasinormal said:

Coincidently, that 6% capitalisation drop of 12 billion dollars is same amount Samsung is believed to be spending on tap dancing boys and MacRumor shills in 2013.

View attachment 415716

http://www.asymco.com/2012/11/29/the-cost-of-selling-galaxies/

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2013/04/20/apple-samsung-dirty-tricks/

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Judging by the influx of MacRumor shills (all with join dates of 2013), I assume the budget is WAY bigger than that.

Are you reading this, you guys? We KNOW you are paid shills.

Samsungs bubble bursts, Galaxy S4 well below targets - $7.7 billion wiped from value

Not looking good, whichever way you look at it! HTC and Sony now have true competitors, the iPhone always sells well year on year and Blackberry and Nokia / Microsoft are making inroads.

I think this is where Apples strength in depth, and their rock solid ecosystem will come shining through. Now if Apple decides to drop them as a supplier things could start to get even worse.

Orders for the S4 smartphone, which went on sale last month, are slowing on weak demand in Europe that may impact profit margins, analysts led by JJ Park said in a report dated yesterday, citing supply chain checks. JPMorgan cut its share- price estimate for Samsung by 9.5 per cent to 1.9 million won and lowered its 2013 earnings estimates by 9 per cent.

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/samsung/10105633/Samsung-Galaxy-S4-sales-to-disappoint.html

Already discussed, and really nothing out of the ordinary. If anything HTC, Sony and LG are the ones that have everything to prove. Let's wait till end of year numbers to get the real facts though. At that point we'll have a better idea which way the wind is blowing. Although I'll go out on a limb and say it'll still be all about Apple and Samsung. Just a wild guess.