Apple Allowed Developers to Test a Prerelease Mac Pro Hidden Inside a Metal Box

KylePowers said:

I have zero need for one, but I want one!

Will it be any good for gaming?

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Doubtful.

It's ironic, but often the highest-end video cards are not good for gaming because the people writing the drivers for it (and the game studios themselves) don't spend much time thinking about making games work well with them.

Rather, the video-game industry targets the highest-end graphics and gamers are likely to buy. Just being more powerful doesn't help if the games aren't made to take advantage of that power.

there's video of the MARI demo at WWDC on the Developer page

Small White Car said:

Doubtful.

It's ironic, but often the highest-end video cards are not good for gaming because the people writing the drivers for it (and the game studios themselves) don't spend much time thinking about making games work well with them.

Rather, the video-game industry targets the highest-end graphics and gamers are likely to buy. Just being more powerful doesn't help if the games aren't made to take advantage of that power.

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They're workstation cards, not retail consumer gaming ones. You're not paying to game on them.

Forget the Mac Pro, I want to see this "Evil Lab" at Apple HQ!

Price will make or break this Tube. Too many former Mac Pro users have been alienated. The price has to be low enough to encourage new buyers and pull back some who feel badly about losing so many previous options.

TMay said:

From the link..

MARI was ported to OSX in about a week. Pretty impressive. I've never heard of it, but odds are that someone on MR is a user.

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It wasn't really. It was originally built on Unix and OSX, but the OSX version ran into OpenGL issues. They went with a Windows/Linux line-up on launch and said publicly they were waiting on Apple's OpenGL. I guess the wait's over.

For those that are interested, Mari puts a serious strain on any system, and if there's a bottleneck Mari will find it. Jack Greasley's quote about the speed is pretty significant, and encouraging.

I'd take the comments about 12hour renders vs realtime with a pinch of salt. I *expect* that's more a reference to working with Mari vs without Mari, not directly praising the Mac Pro. I didn't hear the comment though.

G4DP said:

So basically they are saying the software is running faster?

Really, who would have thought it. A brand new computer running faster than an old one.

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Quotes for REAL video professionals doing REAL animation, texturing, transcoding and re-encoding...visual FX, rendering....this is Pixar...they're not talking about the 'old' one. They're rendering farms are many times made up of dozens of non-Mac machines...not necessarily running Windows, but derivatives of Linux and Unix for final output. Pixar's animation is some of the trickiest, most time intensive video production there is. This isn't as simple as the 'new one is faster than the old one'....this is a matter of a TRUE professional saying he's NEVER seen the software run this fast!

TMay said:

From the link..

MARI was ported to OSX in about a week. Pretty impressive. I've never heard of it, but odds are that someone on MR is a user.

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Mari is an incredible digital 'painting' software---from their site
"MARI is the most fluid and natural way to paint in 3D. It makes life simple for artists by allowing them to paint directly onto 3D models with more time for painting and less time managing technical issues."

the old days of drawing each and every frame has changed drastically with digital animation and 'drawing'. I'm looking forward to tests with Smoke, Premier and Avid. I'm sure it'll be 'optimized' for full on incredible efficiency in FCPx. We'll see how it works with After Effects and other company's offerings for motion production. But seeing as how this machine is going to shoot straight for Hollywood...all the way down to the independent producer/director/editor/sound guy/gal....with PCI-e Storage and 6 Thunderbolt outputs...this computer could change the way rendering farms are set up...as well as the one man operation knocking out weddings and documentaries.

Exciting to say the least!

chirpie said:

You'd think if it's good enough for a Hollywood Studio that would sort of put the kibosh on stuff like that.

But (sigh) it's the internet, and people are happier when they're complaining.

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No ****!!! Hilarious....especially if we actually had a way to confirm and/or deny those folks that pretend to be professionals in the way of motion capture, animation, and the entire craft of producing video in this digital day and age. I think Apple has done something special with this new Mac Pro. It's hilarious to read the 'negative' comments when NO one on this board has used or most likely has any idea (other than the knowledge we got at WWDC) the capabilities of this machine. It's size, allowing for several....if not dozens of machines in the same footprint as a pair or 3 traditional MacPros.

I'm fired up....PCIe direct SS storage...these things are going to Flat. Fly!

ChrisCW11 said:

I am tired of Apple missing a market segment to build a "high-performing" consumer level desktop WITHOUT an integrated display. A lot of people think they are "pro" but they are deluded by Apple's marketing and the lack of a upper-middle tier desktop option. Apple just wants to funnel developers into an expensive desktop product.

Apple needs to come out with the "Mac", period. Not iMac, not Mac Mini, not Mac Pro, but a consumer level "high-end" desktop. And I don't want a laptop with "near" desktop performance.

Make a grey version of this using desktop Haswell CPU's, and the option to have one or two GPU's.

Fine, it will steal market away from the "pro" consumers, but it will INCREASE market presence overall. Now that services like Steam are no longer bound to PC gaming Apple is just ignoring the importance of not offering a desktop in this class without the Mini or "i" monikers.

Why not? It just makes sense. Do it now!

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Didn't the high end iMac outperform the Mac Pro before the update? Those iMac's can take most things thrown at them.

G4DP said:

So basically they are saying the software is running faster?

Really, who would have thought it. A brand new computer running faster than an old one.

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you missed the point -- this software didnt exist on OS X before. they ported it, and it runs faster than on any other current, fast PC theyve seen.

I wonder if Apple will address the issues this 3D pro has with the GPUs:

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/06/a-critical-look-at-the-new-mac-pro/

"Because it's so obviously a custom part that I doubt will be user-upgradable, this left a pit in my stomach after the WWDC Mac Pro talk. I work as an art director and a 3D artist, and this prospect of never being able to replace the video card freaks me out. I don’t care about gaming on the Mac Pro—I have a PC and a PS3 for that—but having the same GPU for four years (typically how long I keep a Mac Pro) is not appealing."

And:

"As for what to expect performance-wise, it’s hard to say since the last iteration of Radeon 7950 for Macs was a huge letdown for me. In my experience with apps like Maya and Cinema 4D, it came nowhere near the performance with pro apps that you see in Linux (fastest) or Windows (fast) with the same 7950. A dual 6GB GPU with OpenGL 4.1 support (coming in OS X 10.9) would do much to address my concerns about long-term shelf life for 3D on the new Mac Pro, but Apple and AMD need to address OS X’s driver performance shortcomings, because they are significant. Once the hard work of getting tessellation and other OpenGL 4.1 features is done, I really hope they start honing GL speeds in OS X because the last thing I want is a slow video card with lots of video RAM and a fancy name—for four years.

But many 3D users aren’t even going to get to the point of using the new Mac Pro. The fact that the GPU is not user-replaceable remains a huge issue for people like me, and this is going to do a lot to send potential Mac Pro 3D users to Windows PCs. If there are only good/better/best purchase options, with the GPU and the CPU speeds linked for build options on the Mac store, that would further limit our options. I really hope there’s some freedom on the configuration end, since I usually buy a top-end GPU but the mid-speed Xeon."

When I get a Mac I really want to feel the improvement. With 16 GB of video ram I hope there is some.

The problem is that usually the OS sucks more memory as well. So, your software end up in proportion with the same speed as you had with your previous machine.

If I could run OS9... =D

Mac21ND said:

Image

Sorry, had to

(And yes, I know it's not a "box"...)

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Enough with the trash can comparisons already. This is getting just as bad as "Safari feels snapier".

Small White Car said:

Doubtful.

It's ironic, but often the highest-end video cards are not good for gaming because the people writing the drivers for it (and the game studios themselves) don't spend much time thinking about making games work well with them.

Rather, the video-game industry targets the highest-end graphics and gamers are likely to buy. Just being more powerful doesn't help if the games aren't made to take advantage of that power.

Click to expand...

That's my concern too, speaking as a pro who ALSO likes to game.

Possible rays of hope: AMD and Apple are likely working closely on this, and drivers may get extra attention. And with only a few (internal at least) GPU options--or maybe just one with different memory loadouts?--AMD and Apple can focus on that one unit.

Also, I can settle for less-than-top-end game performance (most gamers settle for less after all) and accept the new GPUs just for the sake of OpenCL and my 27" retina displays *

I can also see, over time, game developers being an ever-growing segment of "pros." Programmers need pro machines. 3D modelers need pro machines. Audio engineers need pro machines. Image editors need pro machines. Guess who needs all of the above? Game developers. Still a niche, but one that might get some love.

* Which I cannot afford...

MacRumors said:

The Mac Pro is expected to be released later this year....

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So are we thinking September?

ChrisCW11 said:

This is a great design, which will be accompanied with a great price tag.

But the average consumer does not need Xeon's and dual workstation class GPU's. Way too many "developers" are going to buy this but people making iOS apps do not need a 12 core Xeon CPU to do the trick.

I am tired of Apple missing a market segment to build a "high-performing" consumer level desktop WITHOUT an integrated display. A lot of people think they are "pro" but they are deluded by Apple's marketing and the lack of a upper-middle tier desktop option. Apple just wants to funnel developers into an expensive desktop product.

Apple needs to come out with the "Mac", period. Not iMac, not Mac Mini, not Mac Pro, but a consumer level "high-end" desktop. And I don't want a laptop with "near" desktop performance.

Make a grey version of this using desktop Haswell CPU's, and the option to have one or two GPU's.

Fine, it will steal market away from the "pro" consumers, but it will INCREASE market presence overall. Now that services like Steam are no longer bound to PC gaming Apple is just ignoring the importance of not offering a desktop in this class without the Mini or "i" monikers.

Why not? It just makes sense. Do it now!

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What makes you assume it won't be available with 4-core and 8? I see that being very likely. The FirePro graphics go UP TO 6GB VRAM a piece. Count on there being 2x2GB and 2x4GB options...

Chill man, there will likely be a 3 tier standard option like normal. I don't know for sure but that makes perfect sense to me. Not everybody needs the 12-Cores and 12GB of VRAM, etc. but those who do can pay for it...those who don't will be just fine I think.

4God said:

So are we thinking September?

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Not sure if it slipped out or if the guy was just guessing but while testing Mari, the demo guy said he laughed when he found out how big the new MP was...since it had been hidden in a box for so long.

Then he said "I can't wait to get my hands on this thing in the fall..." or something to that tune. He said fall...which I think is more likely then the Christmas season.

ChrisCW11 said:

I am tired of Apple missing a market segment to build a "high-performing" consumer level desktop WITHOUT an integrated display. A lot of people think they are "pro" but they are deluded by Apple's marketing and the lack of a upper-middle tier desktop option. Apple just wants to funnel developers into an expensive desktop product.
...
Why not? It just makes sense. Do it now!

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as a developer, what cant i do on a Mac mini or iMac? myself, im a .NET windows developer, and i use last year's 27" iMac, loaded. Intel quad-core i7 3.4ghz, 20gb ram, SSD, 2gb GPU, etc etc.. the thing is more than fine for my .NET VM, and pretty snappy for occasional gaming. loved Diablo 3 and L4D2 on it. if it's like my old imac, it'll last me 5-6 years.

ChrisCW11 said:

I am tired of Apple missing a market segment to build a "high-performing" consumer level desktop WITHOUT an integrated display. A lot of people think they are "pro" but they are deluded by Apple's marketing and the lack of a upper-middle tier desktop option. Apple just wants to funnel developers into an expensive desktop product.

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Nonsense. Quad core iMacs are excellent developer machines. Quad core Mac Minis as well, if you insist on bringing your own display. Or 15" MBP, preferably Retina, if you want to move around as well. In fact, for an iOS developer, the new 13" MBA will do just fine. Add the new Time Machine for backups; and a Mac Mini server if you have multiple developers so you get continuous integrates and unit testing with a 40" TV to display the results.

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houdinize said:

Didn't the high end iMac outperform the Mac Pro before the update? Those iMac's can take most things thrown at them.

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For me, 2.3 GHz rMBP beats an eight core MacPro, with both running side by side. The MacPro is faster in some bits, the rMBP in others, but overall rMBP is a bit faster. iMacs go up to 3.3 GHz I think; at that point it's no comparison.

ChrisCW11 said:

Apple needs to come out with the "Mac", period. Not iMac, not Mac Mini, not Mac Pro, but a consumer level "high-end" desktop. And I don't want a laptop with "near" desktop performance.

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You're resurrecting the "xMac" argument, which has never made sense to me and makes less sense now. The Mac Pro *is* the "Mac" you're talking about, especially when you look at the historical price points of the Macintosh line.

The Mac Pro is a headless Mac, which is historically the most expensive variety of Mac. The Macintosh II was $4000 without the monitor.

The original 128k Mac was akin to the iMac, and retailed for the same price as the current quad core Mac Pro. Headless Macs of the past often cost far, far more than $2500. I don't accept that there has ever been this Mac that you pine for, or that it's actually needed.

Giant metal file cabinet for a tiny tube? I wonder if The Foundry guys were thinking if the next Mac Pro was a giant HAL-9000-like machine when they were testing it.

mw360 said:

It wasn't really. It was originally built on Unix and OSX, but the OSX version ran into OpenGL issues. They went with a Windows/Linux line-up on launch and said publicly they were waiting on Apple's OpenGL. I guess the wait's over.

For those that are interested, Mari puts a serious strain on any system, and if there's a bottleneck Mari will find it. Jack Greasley's quote about the speed is pretty significant, and encouraging.

I'd take the comments about 12hour renders vs realtime with a pinch of salt. I *expect* that's more a reference to working with Mari vs without Mari, not directly praising the Mac Pro. I didn't hear the comment though.

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Thanks for your explanation.

So, I'm taking they were waiting for OpenGL 4 support or just OpenGL hardware support (which I thought was already there for Quadro 4000 graphics).

I'm a SolidWorks user and OpenGL is required for the realtime rendering (which is built on Luxologie's technology). I'm hoping that there aren't any glitches to running Windows 7 in Parallels or Bootcamp with the AMD GPGPU's.

The new Mac Pro could replace a Lenovo D20 in my case.

completely excellent thoughts. 100% agree.

ChrisCW11 said:

This is a great design, which will be accompanied with a great price tag.

But the average consumer does not need Xeon's and dual workstation class GPU's. Way too many "developers" are going to buy this but people making iOS apps do not need a 12 core Xeon CPU to do the trick.

I am tired of Apple missing a market segment to build a "high-performing" consumer level desktop WITHOUT an integrated display. A lot of people think they are "pro" but they are deluded by Apple's marketing and the lack of a upper-middle tier desktop option. Apple just wants to funnel developers into an expensive desktop product.

Apple needs to come out with the "Mac", period. Not iMac, not Mac Mini, not Mac Pro, but a consumer level "high-end" desktop. And I don't want a laptop with "near" desktop performance.

Make a grey version of this using desktop Haswell CPU's, and the option to have one or two GPU's.

Fine, it will steal market away from the "pro" consumers, but it will INCREASE market presence overall. Now that services like Steam are no longer bound to PC gaming Apple is just ignoring the importance of not offering a desktop in this class without the Mini or "i" monikers.

Why not? It just makes sense. Do it now!

Click to expand...

One of the most significant changes with the new Mac Pro is a move away from silver to black. Apple tends to have the same basic colour scheme across all it's computers, so I'm wondering if this finally heralds a move away from silver Macs to black Macs after so many years of silver machines. I'm really hoping that it does. An all black iMac or MBP would be fantastic.

I've also noticed a definite move away from "flat" devices to "upright" devices with the introduction of the Mac Pro and the new AirPort devices. I wonder if this means an upright Mac Mini and/or AppleTV will be next?

Shaun said:

One of the most significant changes with the new Mac Pro is a move away from silver to black. Apple tends to have the same basic colour scheme across all it's computers, so I'm wondering if this finally heralds a move away from silver Macs to black Macs after so many years of silver machines. I'm really hoping that it does. An all black iMac or MBP would be fantastic.

I've also noticed a definite move away from "flat" devices to "upright" devices with the introduction of the Mac Pro and the new AirPort devices. I wonder if this means an upright Mac Mini and/or AppleTV will be next?

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The "BlackBook" was one of the best looking products they ever made.

Shaun said:

One of the most significant changes with the new Mac Pro is a move away from silver to black. Apple tends to have the same basic colour scheme across all it's computers, so I'm wondering if this finally heralds a move away from silver Macs to black Macs after so many years of silver machines. I'm really hoping that it does. An all black iMac or MBP would be fantastic.

I've also noticed a definite move away from "flat" devices to "upright" devices with the introduction of the Mac Pro and the new AirPort devices. I wonder if this means an upright Mac Mini and/or AppleTV will be next?

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You honestly think the color of the machine is one of the most significant changes? That is very funny!