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Mrbobb

macrumors 603
Aug 27, 2012
5,009
209
Going the middle road here...

Doesn't the iPhone have an accelerometer? Apple's concern is, people abuse the phone so internal components can sustain physical damage. So have the accelerometer record violent shakes, so if customer has a problem all the genius has to do is to read the black box and presto. No guessing, no subjective judgement.
 

gnasher729

Suspended
Nov 25, 2005
17,980
5,565
I find if you go to any support person with a chip your on your shoulder or are demanding they usually start pushing back. If the OP presented his issues like he presented it here, that might have been the case.

I've always had very good service with apple. My wife dropped her phone and the camera stopped working. The genius replaced the phone, no questions asked, even though it was by her own doing.

Keep in mind that we hear one side of the story here, and not from an objective source. If we heard from the person who refused the repair, we could expect an entirely different story, also not from an objective source.

----------

Going the middle road here...

Doesn't the iPhone have an accelerometer? Apple's concern is, people abuse the phone so internal components can sustain physical damage. So have the accelerometer record violent shakes, so if customer has a problem all the genius has to do is to read the black box and presto. No guessing, no subjective judgement.

Accelerometer uses power and therefore battery life. What if you drop a phone while it is turned off? _And_ if you drop the phone and the drop damages it, it would be quite difficult recording the accelerometer, because the phone is damaged.
 

AFDoc

Suspended
Jun 29, 2012
2,864
629
Colorado Springs USA for now
Op, you dropped your phone and expect them to replace it? IF there was an issue that occurred and there was no external damage then I say they should replace. I took one in for dust under the screen (while jailbroken) and they replaced it after a heated discussion. I also JUST replaced my i5 r/t power button not working WITH a tip of a headphone stuck in the phone (which caused it to be OOW) and it was replaced. See, the replaceable issue had nothing to do with the issue that caused it to be OOW. YOUR phone had physical damage (or one of the phone's you're speaking of) so they have NO way of knowing if the damaged caused the issue.

I think it's funny that you expect apple to replace a physically damaged phone for a warranty replacement. Your car windshield/transmission comparison is dumb as a cracked windshield can NOT cause a transmission issue.... However dropping your phone can cause any number of internal/external issues.
 

AnonMac50

macrumors 68000
Mar 24, 2010
1,578
324
No, I do not know a single person with shiny corners. Maybe we all take better care of our devices, but after 5 months my device doesn't even have a single knick in the bezel.

Your car analogy is horrible. But if you have damage on your bumper and your radiator breaks, they do not have to honor your warranty because you hit something that may or may not have damaged the radiator.

Additionally, here is what voids the iPhone's Warranty:

"This Warranty does not apply: (a) to consumable parts, such as batteries or protective coatings that are designed to diminish over time, unless failure has occurred due to a defect in materials or workmanship; (b) to cosmetic damage, including but not limited to scratches, dents and broken plastic on ports; (c) to damage caused by use with another product; (d) to damage caused by accident, abuse, misuse, liquid contact, fire, earthquake or other external cause; (e) to damage caused by operating the Apple Product outside Apple’s published guidelines; (f) to damage caused by service (including upgrades and expansions) performed by anyone who is not a representative of Apple or an Apple Authorized Service Provider (“AASP”); (g) to an Apple Product that has been modified to alter functionality or capability without the written permission of Apple; (h) to defects caused by normal wear and tear or otherwise due to the normal aging of the Apple Product, or (i) if any serial number has been removed or defaced from the Apple Product."

It is clearly stated that damages to the device void all warranty.

Actually, this says what the warranty will not cover, not what voids it.
 

Mrbobb

macrumors 603
Aug 27, 2012
5,009
209
Accelerometer uses power and therefore battery life. What if you drop a phone while it is turned off? _And_ if you drop the phone and the drop damages it, it would be quite difficult recording the accelerometer, because the phone is damaged.


Well just looking from a customer service point of view, you engineers work out the technical details. :)
 

c1phr

macrumors 6502
Jan 8, 2011
352
4
Going the middle road here...

Doesn't the iPhone have an accelerometer? Apple's concern is, people abuse the phone so internal components can sustain physical damage. So have the accelerometer record violent shakes, so if customer has a problem all the genius has to do is to read the black box and presto. No guessing, no subjective judgement.

Despite the power concern, what about games that have you shake the phone around? Granted it should look different from a drop, but a quickly scanning genius could misinterpret. Also, if the device is dropped in say an OtterBox Defender, the drop would register but the phone would be totally fine.

Actually, this says what the warranty will not cover, not what voids it.

Exactly what I was thinking.


Also, for the record, the edges of my phone are fine (one small nick, but not shiny), and I've been uncased.
 

BlaqkAudio

macrumors 6502
Jun 24, 2008
495
23
New York
Apple "denying warranty work".... does the FTC need to get involved?
No.

If your local Apple Store keeps denying your warranty claims, then why do you keep going back? Call Apple and complain about the store.
 

Mlrollin91

macrumors G5
Nov 20, 2008
14,120
10,106
Going the middle road here...

Doesn't the iPhone have an accelerometer? Apple's concern is, people abuse the phone so internal components can sustain physical damage. So have the accelerometer record violent shakes, so if customer has a problem all the genius has to do is to read the black box and presto. No guessing, no subjective judgement.

Wouldn't a DFU restore completely wipe out the data recorded by the accelerometer? In addition, wouldn't it add to battery life concerns down the road because the accelerometer is constantly recording data? I like where you are going with this, just I don't think its practical yet.

Actually, this says what the warranty will not cover, not what voids it.

Yes, but technically when there is damage to a device that is not covered by warranty, it will void the warranty. If I drop my phone and it cracks the screen and a month later start having lock button issues, Apple will say that the drop that caused the cracked screen also lead to the lock button problem and they will not help you unless you pay for the OOW service. So therefore, anything happens to the device that is not covered by the warranty will void all future warranty claims.
 

Chris092881

macrumors 6502
Dec 26, 2012
409
3
I feel for the OP. It's like other people have said, don't give up. Call Apple directly, go to another store, or call your carrier. Though the carrier will probably refer you right back to Apple anyways. I have my 5 in a case and just took it out for the first time after nearly 7 months of use and found no wearing or marks at all. But that's just me. I can easily see how not having the 5 in some sort of case could cause issues. Didn't Phil Schiller himself admit that anodizing chips and wears rather easily, exposing the aluminum underneath? And that this was all "normal wear and tear?"

It sounds to me like Apple is trying to avoid helping you for whatever reason. I went through a similar situation before I had the 5 I do now. This is my third phone. First had a defective auto-focus, second had what sounded like a small screw rattling around inside the phone which was clearly audible in the earpiece when on a call, and now I have this one. I did notice that there seems to be a small piece of dust inside the rear facing camera, but it doesn't affect my photos, so it's a non-issue at this point. When they did replace my phone for the third time back in January I made sure to purchase AppleCare+. It just seems like a smart move.
 

Aquaporin

macrumors 6502a
Jun 27, 2005
514
219
USA
Apple has always been very courteous and generous with their warranty repairs in store. Therefore FTC does not need to be involved. But if you still feel inclined: 1-877-FTC-HELP.
 

Mrbobb

macrumors 603
Aug 27, 2012
5,009
209
Despite the power concern, what about games that have you shake the phone around?

Gaming is not enough to cause damage.

Granted it should look different from a drop, but a quickly scanning genius could misinterpret.

No, there is a science to this. This is measured iin "Gs." U will notice a lot of electronic devices, on the back of the manual, under Specification-Environmental, it spells out under what conditions the device is guaranteed to work. One of those specifications is Gs.

Also, if the device is dropped in say an OtterBox Defender, the drop would register but the phone would be totally fine.

Already factored in.

Ever watched that episode of Mythbuster where the guys throw themselves off from a third floor, wrapped with increasingly amount of bubble wrap to find out whether they survive the fall? Conclusion: Thicker wraps reduced Gs.
 

Dalton63841

macrumors 65816
Nov 27, 2010
1,449
8
SEMO, USA
Didn't Phil Schiller himself admit that anodizing chips and wears rather easily, exposing the aluminum underneath? And that this was all "normal wear and tear?"

Anodizing does not chip, and if it is done with any decent level of quality, it doesn't wear that easily. It isn't like paint or a powder coat where it just coats the outside. The color is actually bonded into the surface of the metal.
 

Chris092881

macrumors 6502
Dec 26, 2012
409
3
Anodizing does not chip, and if it is done with any decent level of quality, it doesn't wear that easily. It isn't like paint or a powder coat where it just coats the outside. The color is actually bonded into the surface of the metal.

Here's what he said. I'm no metals expert. But I will say that out of the sealed retail box my phone came with three "scuffs" that were easily noticeable.

https://www.macrumors.com/2012/09/2...5-scratching-normal-for-any-aluminum-product/
 

Dalton63841

macrumors 65816
Nov 27, 2010
1,449
8
SEMO, USA
Here's what he said. I'm no metals expert. But I will say that out of the sealed retail box my phone came with three "scuffs" that were easily noticeable.

https://www.macrumors.com/2012/09/2...5-scratching-normal-for-any-aluminum-product/

Note to self... Never buy iPhone 5. I've done a lot of metal work and work with shops that handle anodization, and it is most certainly NOT normal if done right. If it chips, then it is blatantly being done wrong. If it wears off that easily, then the anodized layer is far too thin.
 

lordofthereef

macrumors G5
Nov 29, 2011
13,161
3,720
Boston, MA
I didn't read through the whole thread, so this may have been asked, but...

Are you going back to the same Apple store? That could be your problem. I have read countless accounts of people getting denied warranty at one store but not another.
 

Chris092881

macrumors 6502
Dec 26, 2012
409
3
Note to self... Never buy iPhone 5. I've done a lot of metal work and work with shops that handle anodization, and it is most certainly NOT normal if done right. If it chips, then it is blatantly being done wrong. If it wears off that easily, then the anodized layer is far too thin.

You could be right. I have no idea. But I will say that the article I linked to was in response to people getting their phones with scratches, nicks, and scuffs right out the box with no use whatsoever. That's the concerning part, at least for me.
 

Dalton63841

macrumors 65816
Nov 27, 2010
1,449
8
SEMO, USA
You could be right. I have no idea. But I will say that the article I linked to was in response to people getting their phones with scratches, nicks, and scuffs right out the box with no use whatsoever. That's the concerning part, at least for me.

You are right. If they are considering chipping and wearing under light use to be normal, then that is definitely reason for concern. Anodization is much more resilient than many realize when it is done properly(which you would expect from a company like Apple).
 

HidingAmatanth

macrumors newbie
Jul 2, 2013
16
0
The shell of this version has many problems all around. Really, I think the entire phone does at this point.

I had the original iPhone and just "upgraded" from a 3Gs. I cannot remember hearing anywhere near the issues for those two as I have heard for iPhone 5.

I made it a point to skip the 4 and 4s after the "you're holding it wrong" statement. Now I have a phone I'm afraid to look cross eyed at, even with it in a Defender case.

It seems like Apple is trying to push out "new and improved" models every year, and are failing to do any proper research into how they will function when used in normal day to day life. Then they put the blame on the consumer as much as they can.
 

Thraun

macrumors regular
Dec 18, 2008
159
41
Abbotsford, BC
Pretty sure anyone having issues getting their phone fixed/replaced under warranty is in the minority. As a customer and reseller, all my dealings with Apple and all I've heard about have been nothing but pleasant and easy.
 

jcpb

macrumors 6502a
Jun 5, 2012
860
0
1: the anodizing is rubbed off the corners of the product, and therefore was abused/damaged (happened to me, the edges rub off when placed in pocket regaulrly)

2: the anodizing is a different shade than a normal iphone 5 and therefore is not an apple product (happened today at apple store with a friend)

3: the product has a ding on the corner, and therefore we can no longer warranty it due to abuse (i had screen problems, and the ding on the back corner "voided all warranty")
1, 2, and 3 are all as a result of normal wear and tear while using the phones, and as such are specifically NOT COVERED by the one-year warranty.

The warranty is for problems with the hardware in your phone (e.g. defective battery, bad display, etc.), as in, things that prevent you from using the phone as intended.
D: Now the consumer is out of luck, and has a defective device that now carries no warranty as the Apple Store marks the serial down as "out of warranty"
Cosmetic damage generally do not make a phone defective.
I feel that we as consumers of these $650 and greater cost devices need to fight against the store for our rights and privileges, I assume that since it has happened several times to me and people i know there is surely a hoard of others that fall into this same boat... I now have a useless $650 iPhone 5, and have to purchase another outright just to make calls.
You are abusing the terms of the warranty for mere cosmetic issues. You seem to have this attitude where if you own an Apple device, you can get it replaced for every supremely small and inconsequential issue with no questions asked. Most manufacturer warranties do not work that way.

My iPhone has lots of scratches on its backside as a result of being used as a phone. No, that is not covered by any warranty, and I do not expect it to be covered. Even so, my phone still works.
the FTC should be able to fight with us
You'll just get laughed out of the office.
 

darster

Suspended
Aug 25, 2011
1,703
1
I think it's a great idea that the OP wants to get the FTC involved in this matter. He should hear back from them in about 12 years.
 

pdutta2000

macrumors regular
Jun 4, 2008
157
0
1, 2, and 3 are all as a result of normal wear and tear while using the phones, and as such are specifically NOT COVERED by the one-year warranty.

The warranty is for problems with the hardware in your phone (e.g. defective battery, bad display, etc.), as in, things that prevent you from using the phone as intended.

Cosmetic damage generally do not make a phone defective.

You are abusing the terms of the warranty for mere cosmetic issues. You seem to have this attitude where if you own an Apple device, you can get it replaced for every supremely small and inconsequential issue with no questions asked. Most manufacturer warranties do not work that way.

My iPhone has lots of scratches on its backside as a result of being used as a phone. No, that is not covered by any warranty, and I do not expect it to be covered. Even so, my phone still works.

You'll just get laughed out of the office.

You missed the point completely. The OP actually doesn't state the exact nature of the issue with the phone(s) just the reasons why he is being denied. He states a screen problem in #3 which is voided due to a ding. This is not warranty work for cosmetic damage. This is a real problem and he is being denied because of cosmetic damage. Very different things.
 

HidingAmatanth

macrumors newbie
Jul 2, 2013
16
0
I may well be reading the original post wrong, but I don't think the problem is wanting the phone replaced because of cosmetic problems. It's that Apple is using cosmetic problems as an excuse not to fix/replace phones that have real hardware issues.

Would a single report start an investigation? In all likelihood, no. But reports do get logged and it is possible for an investigation to happen if they get enough with a common theme.

I was on the phone with Apple and AT&T for over 12 hours a little over a week ago. No one wanted to claim fault for my phone arriving bent. After all that time I was told to file a claim with FedEx. I told them if I was going to file anything at that point, it would be with the Florida Consumer Board.

Instantaneously I was informed I could exchange my phone at the Apple store of my choice.
 
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