Help! Java-related chaos!

Amazin69 · Jul 4, 2013

So I'm running OS X 10.5.8 on my PowerPC iMac G5. (It's all I can afford; I'm on disability and am brutally poor. Can't-afford-TV-service poor, I'm talking.) And I've been enjoying downloading videos from YouTube via SaveVid.com. Been doing for over a month, no problems.

Untilyesterday. All of a sudden, nothing is working, I'm constantly hanging on "loading", and when it does resolve, it tells me that I need to install Java. Which is kind of strange, given that I have Java installed and enabled, and I was getting the Java permission pop-up every time I went to the site, but whatever. I clicked on "Software Update", as I'd been told to do, and nothing. SU informed me that I was all up to date. And yet, same problem, over and over.

Annoyed, I searched the web for solutions. One page told me to toss my Java cache. Did that, no change. I'd love to upgrade to Java 7, of course, but I'd need to upgrade my OS, which I can't do until I upgrade my machine, which Ican't do. So I'm stuck with Java 6.

Or am I? Finding this page at Gephi.org (https://gephi.org/users/install-java-6-mac-os-x-leopard/), I learned that while Java 6 may be installed, you need to activate it manually. (Again, why this should be an issue when it wasn't on Tuesday, I haven't a clue, but whatever.) So I go to my "Java Preferences" control panel to move Java 6 to the top of the list andit isn't even there! All that is showing is J2SE 5 and J2SE 1.4.2.

And then I ran the "java ~version" Terminal command (as recommended) to see which version was being runand I got the message:

Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: ~version

Which seems to be an error that compilers get, except that I wasn't trying to compile anything. I did discover that I apparently trashed a "Java" folder with a "main" subfolder by mistake, so perhaps that's what the Terminal is looking for. I'd restore that folderif I could recall where I removed it from. (Senility sucks.)

I thought perhaps it might be better to just download v.6 and start all over again, so I went to the page (http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1359) with the last update for 10.5 on it at Apple and clicked for the download. And got 404'd. No luck there.

So now I have no damn idea what to do. Oh, and in what I think was a completely separate but annoyingly synchronous failure, all of a sudden I can't even SEE the damn YouTube vids, as they're now telling me I don't have Flash installed. Again, just as with Java, my older machine prevents me from running the latest version (or anything resembling the latest version), but I do have Flash. (As I said before, above, it was working fine on Tuesday.)

This is extremely frustrating and my mental health is not so good to begin with. Any and all solutions would be deeply appreciated. Thanks in advance.

wrldwzrd89 · Jul 4, 2013

You've got THREE distinct problems here:

First of all, it seems you got incorrect advice for that Terminal command. The command you need is:

Code:

java -version

What you tried using, which won't work:

Code:

java ~version

Subtle but important difference.

The second problem you're running into is that Apple's Java SE 6 is Intel-only (and 64-bit only too!) for Leopard, which explains why it's not showing up. This one DOES have a solution, fortunately! Someone kind made a PPC beta of Java SE 7 targeted at users like you, here: http://landonf.bikemonkey.org/static/soylatte/

The third problem: YouTube switched to requiring a newer version of Flash than your computer can support. This one there really isn't anything you can do about, sadly.

Amazin69 · Jul 4, 2013

First, thanks for replying.

Second, I can't believe I got so blind that I mistook a hyphen for a tilde. That's not good! So I put the hyphenated command into Terminal and got this:

java version "1.5.0_30"
Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition (build 1.5.0_30-b03-389-9M3425)
Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 1.5.0_30-161, mixed mode, sharing)

"1.5.0_30" doesn't sound like it's the proper version, is it?

Third, I can't believe that YouTube would essentially disable service for all owners of computers older than five years. (I can't be the only one still on an older machine, right?) So now I can't view their vids ANYWHERE without downloading them? Way to go, guys.

Fourth, any ideas on where that almost-discarded "Java" folder of mine should go? Or should I, in fact, just discard it?

Fifth, good to see there's a "Soy Latte" alternative that supports PPC. I'm going to need a major walk-through, though; I've never done anything like this before, I'm used to programs just self-installing with one click. For example, do I need the "32-bit JDK for Mac OS X 10.4 and 10.5" binary, the 64-bit equivalent, or only the "32-bit OpenJDK 7 Beta 1 for Mac OS X 10.5 PowerPC (Beta Release)" listed below that? It wasn't clear.

Again, thanks, and more help will continue to be appreciated.

wrldwzrd89 · Jul 4, 2013

Amazin69 said:
First, thanks for replying.

Second, I can't believe I got so blind that I mistook a hyphen for a tilde. That's not good! So I put the hyphenated command into Terminal and got this:

"1.5.0_30" doesn't sound like it's the proper version, is it?

Third, I can't believe that YouTube would essentially disable service for all owners of computers older than five years. (I can't be the only one still on an older machine, right?) So now I can't view their vids ANYWHERE without downloading them? Way to go, guys.

Fourth, any ideas on where that almost-discarded "Java" folder of mine should go? Or should I, in fact, just discard it?

Fifth, good to see there's a "Soy Latte" alternative that supports PPC. I'm going to need a major walk-through, though; I've never done anything like this before, I'm used to programs just self-installing with one click. For example, do I need the "32-bit JDK for Mac OS X 10.4 and 10.5" binary, the 64-bit equivalent, or only the "32-bit OpenJDK 7 Beta 1 for Mac OS X 10.5 PowerPC (Beta Release)" listed below that? It wasn't clear.

Again, thanks, and more help will continue to be appreciated.

1. You're welcome. ^_^
2. 1.5.0_30 is the newest your computer supports.
3. Annoying but inevitable...
4. Can't help you here.
5. You want the "32-bit OpenJDK 7 Beta 1 for Mac OS X 10.5 PowerPC (Beta Release)" file.

Amazin69 · Jul 4, 2013

Well, good to know I'm up-to-date on the JRT front and if we can't think of a place for that old folder, then perhaps this "Soy Latte" thing will replace it. And I still say it's bizarre for YT to cut off Leopard users like thatI know there are still people out there running Tiger, never mind Leopard. (And equivalently vintage Windows systems, too, I'm sure.) But moving on

So, I've downloaded the beta file, now what? Apparently, I'm supposed to install OpenMotif (what? from where?) via MacPorts (what?) and then I have to compile the source code or something? I really don't have clue one about this stuff. Help continues to be appreciated. (That last sentence may require a macro)

chrfr · Jul 4, 2013

Amazin69 said:
I thought perhaps it might be better to just download v.6 and start all over again, so I went to the page (http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1359) with the last update for 10.5 on it at Apple and clicked for the download. And got 404'd.

This download worked for me just now.

wrldwzrd89 · Jul 4, 2013

Amazin69 said:
Well, good to know I'm up-to-date on the JRT front and if we can't think of a place for that old folder, then perhaps this "Soy Latte" thing will replace it. And I still say it's bizarre for YT to cut off Leopard users like thatI know there are still people out there running Tiger, never mind Leopard. (And equivalently vintage Windows systems, too, I'm sure.) But moving on

So, I've downloaded the beta file, now what? Apparently, I'm supposed to install OpenMotif (what? from where?) via MacPorts (what?) and then I have to compile the source code or something? I really don't have clue one about this stuff. Help continues to be appreciated. (That last sentence may require a macro)

Oh, it's not an installable binary... well that makes things awkward. Unfortunately, I lack a suitable PPC Mac to compile the code on for you - I'd seriously do this if I could.

The best I can do is install Leopard on a Rev. D Intel iMac and force it to compile for PPC... but even then my hands are tied by lack of a compiler.

Amazin69 · Jul 4, 2013

chrfr said:
This download worked for me just now.

Yep, downloading as I type. No idea what happened last night. And it's a .dmg file, so I hope it's as easy to deal with as those usually are. Hang on, download's done…

Hmm, .pkg file inside. Needs me to quit the browser before it installs, so we'll see what happens there. Be right back.

ETA: Good news, it installed just fine. (Means I can trash that extra file, I guess.) Bad news, SaveVid still says I need to "install" java, there's no v6 listed as an option in my Java Preferences, etc. Right back where we started.

wrldwzrd89, are you sure that beta file is not installable? Because it says on the page (twice) that

The soylatte directory can be placed anywhere on your system -- I chose /usr/local/soylatte16-amd64. Like other Java platforms, setting the JAVA_HOME and PATH environmental variables to point at this location will work as expected.

That sounds as though I can install it, I just need to set a few commands afterwards. I think that whole section on building was an option, not a necessity, now that I look at it again. Or am I mistaken?

(And the compiler information is all there on SoyLatte's page [I think], it's just that it reads like 90% gibberish to me. But that's not to say I couldn't be guided through it. [Although I hope it doesn't come to that.])

Awaiting further feedback. And again, my continued thanks.

Amazin69 · Jul 6, 2013

And still more problems

Well, I took a couple of days away from this, since I knew people might be otherwise occupied over the holiday, but I took a shot at it last night, and it looks as though that "SoyLatte" thing is not an installable binary, after all. (Either that, or I just screwed up again.) I Googled how to set the JAVA_HOME and PATH, did that, but nothing happened. So it looks as though compiling the code is my only option for getting Java 7.

Well, I've always wanted to learn new skills, I suppose. Anybody care to show me how?

In the meantime, I decided to seek an alternative to SaveVid.com, as a simpler workaround. WebVideoFetcher (http://www.webvideofetcher.com , naturally enough) looked good, but when it checks me for Java, this is what it spits back:

Ignored exception: java.security.cert.CertificateException: User terminated

Um, what? Has Java "terminated" me because I tried to install the SoyLatte thing? That can't be good.

Not to beat a dead horse (original typo here was "be a dead horse", which I do kind of feel like), but…Help! Please.

And thanks to any who might do so.

ETA: Nope, according to Oracle's "Is my Java installed?" test page, everything is fine. Which doesn't explain why I keep getting the "user terminated" error, but it's good to know I have not, in fact, been terminated, I suppose.

Dang, this is confusing. Oh, well.

allan.nyholm · Jul 7, 2013

I went on a hunt for solutions to at least the Flash player issue and the downloading videos off YouTube. The Java issue is kinda weird.

Anyways, this YouTube video tells us that there is a recent Flash Player plugin for PPC Macs. The plugin is now at 11.7 for PPC Macs(updated in May)

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCrAKhv3R_c

Now as a disclaimer I have to say that I'm completely unaware of this actually working or not. But watch the video as the man explains where to put the plugin after you downloaded it off his website. Normally I would think that it's bad to go ahead and download stuff off YouTube but the man seems trustworthy even though some people in the comments section claims they get a blue screen where the video should be. Just always make a backup of what ever you're doing.

So, decide if that's a route you're willing to take.

The second is about downloading YouTube videos without Java. You need a capable browser. Firefox in this case. There are a PPC version available here https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/37761/tenfourfox

Now after getting Firefox(tenfourfox) get the Greasemonkey addon and go to this userscripts site http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/62634

If all goes well the download links depicted in the screenshot will show up as you browse YouTube. It's what I'm using currently, although on an Intel Mac. Should work with PPC too.

Good luck experimenting. If all goes bad then I deeply apologize for that but it really shouldn't.

Edit: I just realized that the two suggestions go together hand in hand as one would not work without the other(Flash Player and downloading YouTube videos) How silly of me. I'm probably just hoping too much on that recent Flash Player plugin working.

Is Java needed for anything else that you do?

Amazin69 · Jul 7, 2013

Thanks, Allan!

Thanks for taking the time to respond, allan.nyholm. I haven't attempted implementing any of your suggestions just yet, but they all have some merit.

Some quick, off-the-cuff thoughts:

It certainly can't hurt to get Flash up to the most current level. I know at least one site that was already giving me guff, even before the recent one-day YouTube issue. So thanks for that.

I actually already have Firefox. (I also have the most current versions [for my machine] of IE, Netscape Navigator, Flock and SeaMonkey, for that matter. When you're dealing with older equipment, outdated browsers aren't hard to find.) However it seems to generally be slow as molasses, and I'm skeptical about third-party add-on downloaders. They almost never work right (usually they're not PPC compatible) and they don't seem to offer a choice of resolutions. I used to download from YouTube via Safari's activity window (I still have a workaround that lets me do that in many circumstances), but the resulting video would be 320x240 or at most 480x360. Whereas at Savevid you got a choice, almost always including 640x480 (or 854x480 for widescreen) and usually HD as well. So I'm less enthused about taking what I see as a step backwards.

As for whether I'm using Java for anything else, while I couldn't name anything off the top of my head, it is a very widely-used program, and I think it would behoove me to have it in running order. So I'm still hoping someone who can tell me how to compile the code to make SoyLatte installable will drop by to give me a hand.

Thanks for all the thoughts, and if you know anybody who can compile Java code, give them a holler, okay?

wrldwzrd89 · Jul 8, 2013

Amazin69 said:
Thanks for taking the time to respond, allan.nyholm. I haven't attempted implementing any of your suggestions just yet, but they all have some merit.

Some quick, off-the-cuff thoughts:

It certainly can't hurt to get Flash up to the most current level. I know at least one site that was already giving me guff, even before the recent one-day YouTube issue. So thanks for that.

I actually already have Firefox. (I also have the most current versions [for my machine] of IE, Netscape Navigator, Flock and SeaMonkey, for that matter. When you're dealing with older equipment, outdated browsers aren't hard to find.) However it seems to generally be slow as molasses, and I'm skeptical about third-party add-on downloaders. They almost never work right (usually they're not PPC compatible) and they don't seem to offer a choice of resolutions. I used to download from YouTube via Safari's activity window (I still have a workaround that lets me do that in many circumstances), but the resulting video would be 320x240 or at most 480x360. Whereas at Savevid you got a choice, almost always including 640x480 (or 854x480 for widescreen) and usually HD as well. So I'm less enthused about taking what I see as a step backwards.

As for whether I'm using Java for anything else, while I couldn't name anything off the top of my head, it is a very widely-used program, and I think it would behoove me to have it in running order. So I'm still hoping someone who can tell me how to compile the code to make SoyLatte installable will drop by to give me a hand.

Thanks for all the thoughts, and if you know anybody who can compile Java code, give them a holler, okay?

I can compile Java code, being a Java developer. You should have mentioned that sooner

allan.nyholm · Jul 8, 2013

Amazin69, It's quite alright to not follow what I wrote down. I now understand that you really need Java first and foremost. And you do know your way around browsers which is great.

I wish you good luck with getting Java up and running on your PPC machine.

Amazin69 · Jul 8, 2013

wrldwzrd89 said:
I can compile Java code, being a Java developer. You should have mentioned that sooner

Wait, what? Is this not what we were talking about before?

Okay, so the "SoyLatte" code was an attempt to do the equivalent of installing Java 7 on a PPC, not actually Java itself. But if you can get me Java 6 or Java 7 running on this beast, then yes I would be very interested.

(At the moment, I'm just confused over whether I was unclear before or whether I'm misunderstanding your sense of humor. I'll gladly admit to either flaw, but if help is available, I'm glad of it. Thanks.)

Amazin69 · Jul 8, 2013

allan.nyholm said:
Amazin69, It's quite alright to not follow what I wrote down. I now understand that you really need Java first and foremost. And you do know your way around browsers which is great.

I wish you good luck with getting Java up and running on your PPC machine.

No, no I tested out what you suggested; I was just giving early feedback in the form of my preconceptions. Here's the result of the actual testing of your input.

1) The Flash update by FatBastardPipes installed easily and seems to be working fine. Granted, I haven't tested it everywhere, but there's no reason to think it isn't an improvement and he seems to do good work. Thanks for pointing me at him.

2) Firefox (or at least my antique, PPC-enabled Firefox 3.whatever) continues to grind on as slowly as molasses. I couldn't even get pages to load this time, which is probably a different issue, but I have so little love for the browser (and so much on my mind with these issues) that I'm backburnering it for now. The last thing I'm going to do is try and install scripts that would probably slow it down even more. Thanks for the thought, though.

3) Yes, fixing the Java seems to be the priority here. I went to siteslike.com and got their extensive selection of downloader sites; most of them require the same Java as SaveVid/KeepVid/WebVideoFetcher and the few that don't (1 Spanish, 1 Finnish, 1 German, so far) can't seem to give me anything better than 640x360, as I suspected.

I mean, that's workable in a pinch and I should probably get to grabbing what I want to grab before YouTube does a purge or something, but I was hoping for better.

Likewise, most of the downloader apps are either non-PPC-enabled, don't work with Safari, or only have one fixed, low-or-medium-quality option. I was getting 480p from SaveVid, and that's what I'm looking to reacquire. Only one that's looking as though it might be up my goals is YouView, but that's not freeware, as far as the downloading component goes, and I'm loathe to send $ (even just a few $) on a guess. (Why not a trial version, "Mr. Gecko"? Just wondering.) Maybe I should look for it cracked somewhere, I don't know.

So please don't think I dismissed your input out of hand; it did provide avenues for exploration, even if my initial misgivings seem largely borne out at the moment. Again, thanks for contributing, and I'm open to any further ideas.

allan.nyholm · Jul 9, 2013

Amazin69, If the YouView application is something you would like to use let me know and I'll donate the $1.99 for you so you don't have to worry about the money and just enjoy the application if it works for you or not.

You decide if you want to have the money transferred to your PayPal(if you have one) or if you want to have my name in the app as the "Owner".

I got curious and downloaded it again from MacUpdate.com(having been aware of it before but never purchased it) - Installed the Firefox extension and all is good so far. Easy to use program.

Let me know on what you decide.

Amazin69 · Jul 9, 2013

allan.nyholm said:
Amazin69, If the YouView application is something you would like to use let me know and I'll donate the $1.99 for you so you don't have to worry about the money and just enjoy the application if it works for you or not.

You decide if you want to have the money transferred to your PayPal(if you have one) or if you want to have my name in the app as the "Owner".

I got curious and downloaded it again from MacUpdate.com(having been aware of it before but never purchased it) - Installed the Firefox extension and all is good so far. Easy to use program.

Let me know on what you decide.

$1.99? I could have sworn it said $4.99. Huh. (Not that 3 or 5 bucks makes a huge difference; it was just the principle that I didn't want to be blindly spending money when everything else had failed me so far.)

Well, I just have my two main questions about it: does it work in Safari? And what resolutions are available to download? (I had 480p and HD available before the download sites started shunning me, that's what I'm looking to get back to. 360p I can get for free, as mentioned above.)

Thanks in advance.

Meantime, hoping wrldwzrd89 can fix my Java and make the whole issue moot, to be honest.

wrldwzrd89 · Jul 9, 2013

Amazin69 said:
$1.99? I could have sworn it said $4.99. Huh. (Not that 3 or 5 bucks makes a huge difference; it was just the principle that I didn't want to be blindly spending money when everything else had failed me so far.)

Well, I just have my two main questions about it: does it work in Safari? And what resolutions are available to download? (I had 480p and HD available before the download sites started shunning me, that's what I'm looking to get back to. 360p I can get for free, as mentioned above.)

Thanks in advance.

Meantime, hoping wrldwzrd89 can fix my Java and make the whole issue moot, to be honest.

Do you mean compiling a Java program from source code (which I can definitely do - I do this all the time) or compiling Java itself from source code for PowerPC Leopard (which I cannot do, as I lack a way to get the needed developer tools)? The difference may seem subtle to non-programmers, but it's important.

Amazin69 · Jul 9, 2013

It is subtle, I confess.

I suppose the key difference is that what are sites like SaveVid actually looking for? They always tell us to "enable Java" in the applet that pops up; this would seem to indicate that they are seeking the presence of…something. Is it a specific program that would meet their needs and run their site-specific scripts?

Or is it simply that Java 5 will never meet their needs any more and they need Java 6? If so, can you turn my existing Java 5 (PPC version) into Java 6, or not?

I admit level of non-expertise is such that I don't, at this point, understand what is needed here. (Also, did we decide it was useless for me to try and follow the instructions on the "SoyLatte" page and try to compile that, in Java's place? Because those developers, at least, seem to think that's an option.)

Let me know. I might be thick, but I *think* I'm teachable.

wrldwzrd89 · Jul 10, 2013

Amazin69 said:
It is subtle, I confess.

I suppose the key difference is that what are sites like SaveVid actually looking for? They always tell us to "enable Java" in the applet that pops up; this would seem to indicate that they are seeking the presence ofsomething. Is it a specific program that would meet their needs and run their site-specific scripts?

Or is it simply that Java 5 will never meet their needs any more and they need Java 6? If so, can you turn my existing Java 5 (PPC version) into Java 6, or not?

I admit level of non-expertise is such that I don't, at this point, understand what is needed here. (Also, did we decide it was useless for me to try and follow the instructions on the "SoyLatte" page and try to compile that, in Java's place? Because those developers, at least, seem to think that's an option.)

Let me know. I might be thick, but I *think* I'm teachable.

Based on the information you have provided, I suspect a simpler cause. Since you're a Leopard user you still have Java Preferences.app in your Utilities folder, inside Applications. Go there, and see if Java applets are enabled.

Amazin69 · Jul 10, 2013

I certainly do have Java Preferences in my Utilities folder (v. 12.9.0, to be specific) and I've been there many a time. As much as I'd like this to be something as simple as "Enable Java Applets" not being toggled, I tend to doubt it, given that, as you'll remember, everything worked fine up until last Tuesday. If applet permissions were being automatically denied, I would never have been able to access the site to begin with.

(In fact, as I chose to only allow permission on a session-by-session basis, I saw that applet about 3 or 4 times a day.)

While there's no specific "enable Java applets" button on my Java Preferences, I have restored the defaults, and the "Advanced" section has check marks next to all of these:

Allow user to grant permission to signed content

Allow user to grant permission to content from an unsigned authority

Use SSL 3.0

Use TLS 1.0

And many more. In addition, having been prompted by many of these nagging sites to check the "always grant permission" box, I now have several sites "green-lit" in the "Security" menu, including the ones in question. Hasn't helped, though.

So, much as I like your idea, I'm dubious. If there's anything specific on the Preferences you want me to check, let me know. And, yet again, thanks.

Amazin69 · Jul 10, 2013

Aha! Aha?

Apparently there's a whole page at Oracle dedicated to the Darwin9Build, which apparently is a revision of Landon Fuller's original SoyLatte work.

Looks really complicated and nearly like a lot of gibberish to mebut does it look feasible to your more educated eyes? If so, I guess I'll attempt to follow all those directions (Ulp!)

Amazin69 · Jul 13, 2013

Update!

There's a thread about this issue in the PowerPC Macs section of the forum, so I cross-posted the information about Darwin9 there. A user on that thread says they can build it, but that it's only the JDK and we would need the JavaVM as well.

Oh. Well, now what? Does anybody know where to find *that*?

(Personal note: my Finnish site is now letting me download at least *some* vids in 480p. So yay for that.)

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