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Weaselboy

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Jan 23, 2005
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ls -leaO ~ ; id
returns...

Based on my admittedly crude understanding of folder permissions, I think you don't have permission to access the Documents folder there. chown33 is an ace at this and will be along with a Terminal command to fix this for you.

If you want to try something else in the interim, follow this guide to reset all your user folders back to default permissions and that might do the trick. (Worst case it won't harm anything and we are back where we started.) You will need your Snow Leopard DVD for this.
 

chown33

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Aug 9, 2009
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According to this part of the output:
Code:
drwx------+ 22 kevinstow-parker staff - 748 Jul 6 10:46 Documents
0: group:everyone deny delete
you should have access to the Documents folder.

(No offense, but Weaselboy's assessment is incorrect. I can provide a detailed interpretive description if either you (BeardRaptus) or Weaselboy wants. Simply ask.)


And according to this part:
Code:
uid=501(kevinstow-parker) gid=20(staff) groups=20(staff),204(_developer),100(_lpoperator),98(_lpadmin),81(_appserveradm),80(admin),79(_appse rverusr),61(localaccounts),12(everyone),401(com.apple.access_screensharing),402(com.apple.sharepoint .group.1)
you are logged in as the user named kevinstow-parker, who owns the Documents folder.


When i use
Code:
ls -RF ~/Documents > ~/Desktop/files.txt
i get out
Code:
ls: .lo#ali:ed: No such file or directory
This output is strange. It's concerning because one possible cause is file-system damage, which could be bad.

I recommend running Disk Utility. You should choose your startup disk volume from the list, choose the "First Aid" tab, then click the "Verify Disk" button. Be sure to click "Verify Disk", not "Verify Permissions".

Copy and paste the complete output from "Verify Disk" into a post.
Please enclose the output in CODE tags as described here.

Please do a "Verify Disk" before making ANY changes or modifications to ANYTHING else on disk, such as Weaselboy's link to resetting permissions.
This is important because damage can be made worse if it exists and writes occur.

There's no guarantee of recovery if there is damage, but the first step is always Don't Make Things Worse.
 

Weaselboy

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Jan 23, 2005
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(No offense, but Weaselboy's assessment is incorrect. I can provide a detailed interpretive description if either you (BeardRaptus) or Weaselboy wants. Simply ask.)

No offense taken. :D Yes, I would appreciate a more in depth explanation.

I was comparing BeardRaptus Documents permissions to mine and it looked off. (Off=highly technical term showing off my not so advanced knowledge of permissions :))

In an earlier post I asked BeardRaptus to boot to his SL DVD and do a repair disk, and that did not seem to help or result in any odd output. :confused:
 

chown33

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No offense taken. :D Yes, I would appreciate a more in depth explanation.
Here goes:
Code:
drwx------+ 22 kevinstow-parker staff - 748 Jul 6 10:46 Documents
0: group:everyone deny delete

The initial d character means it's a directory (folder). A file has a - instead of d. Other things (named pipes, sockets, symlinks) show other characters.

The next 3 chars rwx are the basic access permissions for the owner. The order is always read, write, exec/search. If a letter is shown, the permission is granted; if a dash (hyphen, minus sign) is shown, the permission is denied. The exec/search permission means "exec" (executable) for files, or "search" for directories.

The next 3 chars --- are the basic access permissions for the item's group. Again, the order is always read, write, exec/search, and the same "show a letter or dash" applies. Since the value is all dashes, the group has all permissions denied.

The next 3 chars --- are the basic access permissions for all those other than the owner or a member of the group. Same interpretation: --- is all permissions denied.

There are some other letter possibilities, such as 's' or 't', which don't appear here. Refer to the man page for the 'ls' command. Since the letters don't appear, it's too long to explain them when they don't apply.

The next char + means there is an Access Control List (ACL) for the item. Another possible character here is '@', which means extended attributes. Refer to the ls man page for more details.

An ACL provides a more detailed access control than the 9 basic permissions. This is the ACL entry:
Code:
0: group:everyone deny delete
  • 0 means it's the zeroth item in the list.
  • group:everyone means the item applies to members of the group named "everyone". (By default, every login user account is a member of this group. It's not a special group, other than being managed by the system. It's just a group named "everyone", that every login account normally belongs to.)
  • deny identifies this item as a denial of permission. The opposite would be "allow".
  • delete is the name of the specific permission denied. There's about a dozen different possible names. See the man page for chmod.

The 22 is the number of hard-links to this item. For an HFS+ directory, it's approximately equivalent to the number of items in the directory. That's not exactly right, but it's close enough for this case.

The kevinstow-parker is the user who owns the item. It's the same as the output of the 'id' command, so we know the logged-in user is the owner, so owner permissions (rwx) apply.

The staff is the group assigned to the item. Since the group permissions are all denied, I have no further description.

The - shows there are no additional access flags, such as locked. See the man page for chflags.

The 748 is the length in bytes of the directory's data, i.e. its actual list of files. This number isn't that useful for a directory, at least not for user interpretation.

The Jul 6 10:46 is the most recent modification date-time stamp. Creating, deleting, or renaming a file within a directory will change this. This is only affected by the immediate items, not changes to the contents of sub-folders or sub-sub-folders.

The Documents is the item's name.


Summary: the logged-in user is the owner, the owner has rwx permission, and there are no ACLs denying owner permission. All others are denied any access.

Therefore, the user kevinstow-parker should have full access to everything in the directory, including the ability to list, read, create, delete, or rename items in the directory.


In an earlier post I asked BeardRaptus to boot to his SL DVD and do a repair disk, and that did not seem to help or result in any odd output. :confused:
Well, you didn't ask him to post any output. One hopes he would have posted it, but you didn't ask and I don't like to assume.

I want to see the complete output before making any corrective suggestions. If there's existing damage, and it's uncorrectable by "Repair Disk", that's a different kettle of fish than if there's no apparent damage at all.



Here's the detailed explanation for:
Code:
ls -RF ~/Documents > ~/Desktop/files.txt
ls: .lo#ali:ed: No such file or directory
The -RF option to the 'ls' command tells it to recursively list everything, which means the entire tree of sub-directories is listed, and to append a '/' to directories, or another special character for other types (symlink, socket, etc.).

The first thing the 'ls' command will do is to get a listing of the named directory ~/Documents. It then sorts this (there's an option that tells it not to sort) and proceeds to recurse into sub-directories.

The initial "get a listing" succeeded, otherwise ls would have complained about that.

Apparently, the first item in the sorted listing of ~/Documents is something with the name .lo#ali:ed. Although a strange name, it's not completely crazy. In fact, one could create a file using this command:
Code:
touch ~/Documents/".lo#ali:ed"
and it should work.

The concerning part of the output is that there's usually a file in ~/Documents with the name ".localized". I'll show both names:
Code:
.lo#ali:ed
.localized
Notice that some characters are identical but others aren't. This is a classic sign of damaged data.

It may be the data on disk, i.e. the actual item-entry in the directory, is corrupted, or it may be that when it's read in RAM (working memory), the data transfer corrupts it, or it may be that RAM isn't keeping the data correctly.

Whatever the cause, the next thing 'ls' tries to do is get info on the named item. It's the 'stat' system-call, and you can read its man page for details.

When the stat call is made, the OS doesn't find an entry named ".lo#ali:ed", so stat returns an error, and 'ls' stops. Since the name of the item came directly from the listing, stat should find info, yet it doesn't. This is bad.

So with no other info, I'm pretty sure something is malfunctioning, and doing so in a bad (though possibly intermittent) way.
  • It could be bad data stored on the disk. "Verify Disk" may identify this, or it may not.
  • It could be that reads from disk experience a corrupted data transfer. Possible causes include an intermittently failing disk, an intermittent disk cable, or possibly a failing logic board.
  • It could be that RAM is bad or intermittent.
Running the Apple Hardware Test for the computer may identify disk problems or RAM problems. Or it may not, if the problem is intermittent.

Running "Verify Disk" should identify bad data stored on disk, but it does presuppose that RAM works. If RAM doesn't work reliably, then "Verify Disk" doesn't have reliable data to analyze, so what it shows could be wrong or inconsistent.


Here's a link explaining how to run Apple Hardware Test:
http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1509

It's worth doing regardless of what "Verify Disk" shows.


TLDR:
Run Apple Hardware Test.
See link above.
Post the results.
 

Weaselboy

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Jan 23, 2005
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Here goes: (snip)

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I appreciate it.

It just seems odd that it only seems to impact this one Folder. One would think a more general HW failure would also manifest when trying to access any folder or even loading the OS.
 

chown33

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Thanks for the detailed explanation. I appreciate it.

You're welcome.

It just seems odd that it only seems to impact this one Folder.
We don't know that. This could just be an obvious one. There may be other failures going unnoticed, for any number of reasons.

One would think a more general HW failure would also manifest when trying to access any folder or even loading the OS.
At this point, with the limited data so far, I prefer not to speculate. Mainly because I could come up with a whole bunch of possibilities, and then conditional possibilities from each of those, and so on. I have some free time right now, but not that much.
 

BeardRaptus

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jul 9, 2013
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0
Okay, so yesterday I did verify disk and everything was peachy. Today "Keys out of order repair disk now" i run disk repair, it says keys out of order, repairing b trees "disk cannot be repaired"
awesome
 

chown33

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Aug 9, 2009
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A sea of green

Run Apple Hardware Test first.
http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1509

If the RAM is unreliable or intermittent, then running DiskWarrior can lead to further disk corruption.

If the disk itself is beginning to fail, then even if DiskWarrior repairs a disk, the disk can have another failure (or a series of failures).

At this point, there is no way to know what the cause of the failure is, and no way to know which components are reliable and which ones aren't.
 

BeardRaptus

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jul 9, 2013
15
0
Ran test, got error: 4MEM/9/40000000:0xa9f75018
sorry it took so long to respond, had a long day
 

Weaselboy

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Jan 23, 2005
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Ran test, got error: 4MEM/9/40000000:0xa9f75018
sorry it took so long to respond, had a long day

That 4MEM error is a bad RAM chip. You might try removing and reseating the RAM modules then retest. If that does not fix it, I see a new RAM module(s) in your future.
 

BeardRaptus

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jul 9, 2013
15
0
How would I go about doing that?

----------

In other news silverlight crashed today and wont stop crashing. And it wont install anymore, says there was an error but it wont display the error msg.
 

Weaselboy

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Jan 23, 2005
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How would I go about doing that?

----------

In other news silverlight crashed today and wont stop crashing. And it wont install anymore, says there was an error but it wont display the error msg.

Go to iFixit here and drill down for your exact model and they have a walk thru how to replace RAM. Just follow that and remove your RAM modules and then put them back in place. Then rerun the hardware test. If you still get the 4MEM bad memory result you will need to replace your RAM chips.

You mentioned a "clone" earlier. I'm hoping you have all your data backed up, because as chown33 mentioned, this error can cause data corruption.

Does your system have the stock RAM configuration? I ask because perhaps if you have upgraded to say 2 X 4GB chips, you could remove one at a time and repeat the hardware test to confirm the problem and narrow down the bad RAM module.
 

BeardRaptus

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Jul 9, 2013
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Removing and replacing the ram removed the ram problem found in the hardware test. Should I rerun the disk repair?

----------

I reran disk repair but got same msg, cannot repair disk please backup and reformat drive
 

chown33

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I reran disk repair but got same msg, cannot repair disk please backup and reformat drive

All those times you ran "Repair Disk" with malfunctioning RAM wrote progressively more and more corrupted data to disk.

I think you're now in a position that, at best, DiskWarrior might be able to get you out of. Otherwise your only choice is to backup whatever data you can and reformat. Or restore your data from the last known-good backup.
 

BeardRaptus

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jul 9, 2013
15
0
I only ran it once with the ram problem. I would just do a backup and reformat but the issue is most of the things I would want to backup are in documents, so I can't get them
 

Weaselboy

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Jan 23, 2005
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15,596
California
I only ran it once with the ram problem. I would just do a backup and reformat but the issue is most of the things I would want to backup are in documents, so I can't get them

Like chown33 mentioned, if you don't have those documents backed up anywhere, at this point your best hope is try out Diskwarrior.
 
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