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Parasprite

macrumors 68000
Mar 5, 2013
1,698
144
Am I the only one who likes commercials? Without them I wouldn't discover a lot of products I now own.

The biggest problem I have with commercials and ads in general is that they are almost never advertising something that I would be interested in [buying], and if they are, I probably already know about them.

For instance, I tried turning off Adblock for the sites I visit frequently, but I end up turning it back on because the ads are distracting and I would have never clicked on them either way except by accident (which devalues the ppc ones).
 

mdelvecchio

macrumors 68040
Sep 3, 2010
3,151
1,149
What part of "Nothing is Free" don't people get?

cable isnt free. the entire point of cable was paying for premium content paid for via the subscription fees. but they soon realized they wanted their cake (paying subscribers) and to eat it, too (ad sales).
 

stanton

macrumors member
Jan 19, 2008
81
1
Philly
i bet they wont offer it for free, the offer will have a high price-tag.

This technology has been out for quite awhile using MythTV and the added benefit of completely free minus parts and time. Glad to see real innovation coming with a low cost :confused:
 

mantan

macrumors 68000
Nov 2, 2009
1,743
1,041
DFW
Unfortunately, I think this is probably the most likely play of any of the dreams posted in this thread. The only way we get the other dreams will require a way for Apple to bypass the middlemen (cable companies) who control our broadband pipes. Thus, there must be a companion rumor that makes it possible to link us consumers directly to iCloud without having to go through the toll booths of a Comcast, Time Warner, AT&T, Verizon, etc.

The analogy is very simple: look at iPhone. Regardless of the genius that one can attach to the iPhone product from Apple, it's toll masters still set the pricing for the service. If there was no service, the iPhone would be an iPod Touch. Thus, iPhone is heavily dependent on the middlemen that provide the service that makes it more than an iPod Touch.

This is not that different. Some of the middlemen are even the very same players. How we can dream that somehow they wouldn't flex while Apple was eating their cable TV business revenues is entirely beyond me.

The dreamers need to see a companion, viable rumor that makes it probable that Apple can link us consumers directly to iCloud. Then, something more like some of the more favorable incarnations of the dream actually has a chance. But even there, I don't see any scenario where we can replace what we actually like about the cable service with an Apple replacement and we (consumers) end up paying only a fraction of what we pay now. Apple will want theirs; the content creators will want (and need) to make as much money as they make now; who's left?

The major flaw in that argument is blaming 'the pipes' for the cost. The networks like the current system because subscription fees for bundled networks channels float a WHOLE lot of networks and programming. ABC/Disney/ESPN requires carriers to bring the whole host of networks...and charges them (well us) a pretty penny to do it.

An a la carte or direct model only makes sense to the networks if they can make the same amount or more. Apple is just looking to replace the cable networks/satellite companies as the middle man. But you better believe the networks aren't moving to another model unless it pays them the same amount of money. And you KNOW Apple is going to get theirs.

They saw what happened to the music industry and they aren't going to change the distribution method unless they make the same amount of revenue.

This fantasy people have of just buying the shows they want at a price significantly less than what they pay today is absurd. The content pricing will likely be the same and the monthly distribution checks will just go to Apple instead of DirecTV/Dish/TimeWarner, etc.
 

HobeSoundDarryl

macrumors G5
I actually don't think it happens unless all of the players (that aren't us consumers) can make MORE money- not the same as what they make now. They'll all see this switch as a risk and where there's risk, the potential return must be great enough to motivate that leap. So, IMO, to work, some variant of this dream must show:
  • the content creators how they are going to make more money than they make now
  • the (broadband) infrasture people how they are going to make more than they make now (and that means these cable people have to see that losing their cable TV subscription revenue is fully made up for in broadband rate increases plus some gain to make the change worth it)
  • Apple is going to take their cut right off the top
Who's left?

In swapping a Comcast for Apple, I don't expect any big savings- just one profitable corporation injecting themselves into this chain in place of another. The other doesn't have to be ejected as they own the pipes, so they can just replace any lost revenues with increased broadband. So only the 2 parties at the end of the chain remain.

If the content creators take the hit, then the breadth & depth (and quality) of programming probably comes down. We have a peek at low-cost/no-cost videos via youtube, etc. If we consumers expect the breadth & depth (and quality) to stay at least as good/bad as it is now, there's no one else to pay the difference but us consumers.

Pair that reality with our call for "commercial free" and we are knocking $51/month per household out of the equation which also has to be made up for by someone. Not content creators. Not Apple. Not Cable (broadband). Who's left?

i bet they wont offer it for free, the offer will have a high price-tag.

Of course. That's the only way some kind of change like this can come. See the math above and just switch around the "who's left?" part. For example, let's take care of ourselves first:

We consumers go from- say- $100 per month to- say $20 per month (some want $5 or $10 per month while killing the $51 month OPM (commercial) subsidy too). Apple still wants a fat profit; else why bother. Comcast, etc as a broadband provider has no reason to roll over and take the loss when they have a complete lock on the pipe. But let's assume they let Apple have the cable TV business. They'll still get theirs in full plus some on higher broadband rates. Who's left?

If "we" win with some kind of huge cut in the fuel for the model, then the content creators are the only ones who can lose. Cut their revenues in a big way and they need to cut their costs in a big way. Shows get canceled. Expensive production & special effects shows get scrapped budgets or canceled. Cheaply produced television like reality programming is probably all we can get. Or reruns of stuff already made (no new shows). And youtube quality productions where the artists do it for just the art (entirely on shoe strings).

Remember Star Trek: TNG. None of them ever seemed to be watching any kind of television in the 23rd century. Instead, for artistic entertainment, they gathered in the theater and the officers acted out scenes from old plays or played music. Apparently, that's the future we're dreaming of here. Kill the revenues of the existing model, kill the production model and we end up with only the stuff already in the can or volunteer, amateur live theater. "Data, try that accent again with more feeling this time", "But I don't have any feelings Doctor."
 
Last edited:

mantan

macrumors 68000
Nov 2, 2009
1,743
1,041
DFW
I actually don't think it happens unless all of the players (that aren't us consumers) can make MORE money- not the same as what they make now. They'll all see this switch as a risk and where there's risk, the potential return must be great enough to motivate that leap. So, IMO, to work, some variant of this dream must show:
  • the content creators how they are going to make more money than they make now
  • the (broadband) infrasture people how they are going to make more than they make now (and that means these cable people have to see that losing their cable TV subscription revenue is fully made up for in broadband rate increases plus some gain to make the change worth it)
  • Apple is going to take their cut right off the top
Who's left?

In swapping a Comcast for Apple, I don't expect any big savings- just one profitable corporation injecting themselves into this chain in place of another. The other doesn't have to be ejected as they own the pipes, so they can just replace any lost revenues with increased broadband. So only the 2 parties at the end of the chain remain.

If the content creators take the hit, then the breadth & depth (and quality) of programming probably comes down. We have a peek at low-cost/no-cost videos via youtube, etc. If we consumers expect the breadth & depth (and quality) to stay at least as good/bad as it is now, there's no one else to pay the difference but us consumers.

Pair that reality with our call for "commercial free" and we are knocking $51/month per household out of the equation which also has to be made up for by someone. Not content creators. Not Apple. Not Cable (broadband). Who's left?



Of course. That's the only way some kind of change like this can come. See the math above and just switch around the "who's left?" part. For example, let's take care of ourselves first:

We consumers go from- say- $100 per month to- say $20 per month (some want $5 or $10 per month while killing the $51 month OPM (commercial) subsidy too). Apple still wants a fat profit; else why bother. Comcast, etc as a broadband provider has no reason to roll over and take the loss when they have a complete lock on the pipe. But let's assume they let Apple have the cable TV business. They'll still get theirs in full plus some on higher broadband rates. Who's left?

If "we" win with some kind of huge cut in the fuel for the model, then the content creators are the only ones who can lose. Cut their revenues in a big way and they need to cut their costs in a big way. Shows get canceled. Expensive production & special effects shows get scrapped budgets or canceled. Cheaply produced television like reality programming is probably all we can get. Or reruns of stuff already made (no new shows). And youtube quality productions where the artists do it for just the art (entirely on shoe strings).

Remember Star Trek: TNG. None of them ever seemed to be watching any kind of television in the 23rd century. Instead, for artistic entertainment, they gathered in the theater and the officers acted out scenes from old plays or played music. Apparently, that's the future we're dreaming of here. Kill the revenues of the existing model, kill the production model and we end up with only the stuff already in the can or volunteer, amateur live theater. "Data, try that accent again with more feeling this time", "But I don't have any feelings Doctor."

Somebody who gets it. The programming part is the big key. If networks can't use the 'high tide' of subscription fees to float all programming, you better believe they are going to go for the low risk/high return when it comes to programming. Is a company going to take a risk on a 'Breaking Bad' hoping enough people pay for it to cover the costs?....or is it easier just to slap together another reality show on a shoestring budget and go for the lowest common denominator?

The current model can be improved...no doubt, but I don't trust Apple to bring a better option at a lower cost in this industry.

I honestly think Apple missed an opportunity in the movie industry. I think there is a market for people to watch first run/new release movies at home without the headache of going to theaters. But that market has been filled quickly by 'on-demand' which is very close (allegedly) to marketing new release features (at a premium cost).
 

wytworm

macrumors member
Jun 23, 2010
65
0
So rant all you want to about skipping ads, about the price of cable, satellite, and any other service provider. You will pay more for your favorite show. You are not getting away with anything, no matter what you think.

I am getting away with not watching ads.

----------

Too often people subscribe to the 'free lunch' idea where suddenly they can watch all the TV shows they enjoy today for less money and no commercials.

I don't want 500 channels I want 2. I already cut the cord and now spend less than than a third of my last cable bill on exactly what I want. I don't deny Apple won't take credit for it, but its already out there.
 

samcraig

macrumors P6
Jun 22, 2009
16,779
41,982
USA
Somebody who gets it. The programming part is the big key. If networks can't use the 'high tide' of subscription fees to float all programming, you better believe they are going to go for the low risk/high return when it comes to programming. Is a company going to take a risk on a 'Breaking Bad' hoping enough people pay for it to cover the costs?....or is it easier just to slap together another reality show on a shoestring budget and go for the lowest common denominator?

The current model can be improved...no doubt, but I don't trust Apple to bring a better option at a lower cost in this industry.

I honestly think Apple missed an opportunity in the movie industry. I think there is a market for people to watch first run/new release movies at home without the headache of going to theaters. But that market has been filled quickly by 'on-demand' which is very close (allegedly) to marketing new release features (at a premium cost).

I get it too. I stated something less eloquent earlier in the thread.

And you only have to look as far as the iTunes model for TV and movies to see that Apple isn't going to be giving away much for free if it reduced their income stream they are already making on SELLING single episodes/series.
 

mantan

macrumors 68000
Nov 2, 2009
1,743
1,041
DFW
I am getting away with not watching ads.

----------



I don't want 500 channels I want 2. I already cut the cord and now spend less than than a third of my last cable bill on exactly what I want. I don't deny Apple won't take credit for it, but its already out there.

But you're the exception more than the rule. Those two channels you enjoy are largely being paid for by people using the current delivery system. If everyone started 'cutting the cord', the odds of the channels/shows you enjoying them existing go down tremendously....at least not at a signficantly increased cost.
 

HobeSoundDarryl

macrumors G5
But you're the exception more than the rule. Those two channels you enjoy are largely being paid for by people using the current delivery system. If everyone started 'cutting the cord', the odds of the channels/shows you enjoying them existing go down tremendously....at least not at a signficantly increased cost.

Exactly right. The "early adopters" are getting away with it because the masses aren't doing it yet. But when the masses move and the "as is" model really starts feeling the pain, everything will change (and it won't all be for the better as often dreamed about in these kinds of threads). I just saw an article about this today where industry insiders models the al-a-carte scenario and had a channel like ESPN (alone) priced at $25-$30 per month al-a-carte, HBO priced similarly, etc. That's 2 channels at about $50-$60 per month.

The masters of the current model like the revenue flows as is. They want to keep them. Killing "200 channels we never watch is not that big of a problem" but it won't turn an average cash flow per household from about $75/month to something like $10/month. $75 for 200 channels will just become something like $95 for the 10 channels we actually want.

And our broadband rates will go up on the excuse of "higher bandwidth users" too. Moral: Be careful what you wish for.

Early adopters: enjoy it while you/we can. When the masses follow your lead, your experiences will change in dramatic ways.
 

antic

macrumors regular
Mar 3, 2007
100
10
One possible option is that Apple might pay the media companies to skip adds then insert their own in place

You then have two options. Pay apple to view without adds or add supported viewing with specific Apple adds targeted at the individual viewer
 

unplugme71

macrumors 68030
May 20, 2011
2,827
754
Earth
The biggest problem I have with commercials and ads in general is that they are almost never advertising something that I would be interested in [buying], and if they are, I probably already know about them.

For instance, I tried turning off Adblock for the sites I visit frequently, but I end up turning it back on because the ads are distracting and I would have never clicked on them either way except by accident (which devalues the ppc ones).

I get that. And that's something that marketing companies have a difficult time overcomming. Even on the Internet, I may get an ad to a website I visit often about a promo, but its usually for something I just bought. So the ad agency needs to link my tracking cookie to a shopping cart/checkout to know that this user already bought it.
 
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