Apple Receives Patent for 3D Gesture Control on Touchscreen Devices

Tones2 said:

Ugh. This is NOT something that should be patentable. Gestures are not patentable. In all seriousness, I myself thought of this exact idea like 5 years ago. The patent system is insane.

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First of all, its all about the implementation. People like you think a patent is just about an idea, which is incredibly frustrating how much people misunderstand the difference between generic ideas and implementation. Ideas are meaningless without execution. Thats what the patent claims are for. You don't get a patent for just an idea. You have to figure out HOW. You have to make explicit claims for your method, what is needed to accomplish the idea. THOSE ideas, the ideas that are necessary to achieve the larger vision, are what gets patented.

As Edison said, "1% inspiration, 99% perspiration"

bbeagle said:

Putting something in a movie does not mean you own the patent.

Thinking up the CONCEPT of a time machine, and actually DESIGNING said time machine are 2 different things. The first is NOT patentable, the second IS.

I'll patent the concept of 'making money' if concepts are patentable, and sue anyone who makes money from doing anything.

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He was joooking, and I hope you were too.

I'm sure the people over at Leap Motion will have something to say.

Tones2 said:

Ugh. This is NOT something that should be patentable. Gestures are not patentable. In all seriousness, I myself thought of this exact idea like 5 years ago. The patent system is insane.

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The technology is the patent. If you create the same thing with a different engineering it would be your patent... I believe.

Bhatu said:

Wasn't Samsung's Air Gesture implementation is on similar grounds?

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You can't patent ideas, only specific methods for implementating that idea. If it's a different enough technique, it can be a separate patent.

iPad 10?

bbeagle said:

Putting something in a movie does not mean you own the patent.

Thinking up the CONCEPT of a time machine, and actually DESIGNING said time machine are 2 different things. The first is NOT patentable, the second IS.

I'll patent the concept of 'making money' if concepts are patentable, and sue anyone who makes money from doing anything.

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Hello, sarcasm. This is our friend, bbeagle.

bbeagle: this is sarcasm.

Now that you two have been introduced, we'll leave you alone so you can get better aquainted.

Tones2 said:

I myself thought of this exact idea like 5 years ago.

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But, you didn't put it in writing back then did you. Don't worry if it is anything like television 3D it will suck.

Squilly said:

This technology is at least 3 years away. I don't see it coming out anytime soon. Patents can be filed for any year on Apple's roadmap.

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The technology is here though, in one form or another. The Kinect is an approximation of this technology in that it can track objects in 3D space in front of it to manipulate the screen.'

Then, of course, there's the Leap Motion input device that you can buy right now. Obviously these guys have had a similar idea for awhile, albeit not on a tablet. Their input device tracks your hand in a 3D space in front of a camera, allowing multi-gestures for numerous tasks, depending on what developers develop.

Wow. Why are all of you focusing on the patent side of this??

Who cares?!?!

This is awesome tech, and I want it now, regardless of who owns it!

If Apple pulls this off as well as they did other multitouch (theirs is still the smoothest, in my opinion), this will take the enjoyment of their devices up a notch or 2 thousand.

Seems like the parallax effect of iOS 7 is only the beginning..

Although I have a gut feeling Samsung and possibly even Google will bring this type of tech to the market first (Air Gestures I'm looking at you), I suspect Apple will do what Apple does best: establish a polished, elegant foundation when they feel absolutely certain they've nailed it. iPad 7 or 8 seems plausible.

On a side note though, coming from someone whose studying design, this is without a doubt one of those revolutionary moments that'll disrupt more than a few markets.

Tones2 said:

Ugh. This is NOT something that should be patentable. Gestures are not patentable. In all seriousness, I myself thought of this exact idea like 5 years ago. The patent system is insane.

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The problem is when patents are intentionally abstract and then these companies who succeed in getting them approved make litigation their business model, but I don't consider Apple such a company. This patent covers much more than just the example gestures, and it's the patent as a whole that one has to look at.

Tones2 said:

Ugh. This is NOT something that should be patentable. Gestures are not patentable. In all seriousness, I myself thought of this exact idea like 5 years ago. The patent system is insane.

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is it the gesture thats being patented, or the tech to do so?

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Bhatu said:

Wasn't Samsung's Air Gesture implementation is on similar grounds? If they didn't filed any patents then their next set of Galaxies are already duped!

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this was right in the post:

The Samsung Galaxy S4 currently features a technology known as "Air Gesture", which allows the user to control their device using a number of simple gestures. But Apple's patent covers different technology -- whereas Samsung uses a light sensor to detect the user's gestures, Apple's technology would instead be embedded into the device's screen.

mdelvecchio said:

is it the gesture thats being patented, or the tech to do so?

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The patent doesn't say anything about what tech is used apart of a "proximity sensor"

Nightarchaon said:

So apple is trying to reto activley patent Microsoft Kinect ?

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so the Kinect uses sensors in a touchscreen display? er, no... thus different tech.

really, people.

mdelvecchio said:

so the Kinect uses sensors in a touchscreen display? er, no... thus different tech.

really, people.

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Can you point in what claim specifies that the proximity sensor is located in the touchscreen display?

Oletros said:

Can you point in what claim specifies that the proximity sensor is located in the touchscreen display?

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ok....right in the post we're all reading and responding to:

According to the patent, the device detects the location of the user's fingers using a combination of both the capacitive touch sensors and the proximity sensors located in the display.

what annoys me about these patents is that they are awarded for things like this but there are many ways to achieve this with different tech or screen methods.

Having a cover all patent for 3D touchscreens is madness no matter who it's awarded to.

If this tech is in the pipeline/possible, i see many people developing in tandem, just because you have the patent shouldn't mean that only the holder gets a chance to develop it.

We should change patent law to be, if you can prove you came up with the product feature independently it should over ride any patents.

mdelvecchio said:

ok....right in the post we're all reading and responding to:

According to the patent, the device detects the location of the user's fingers using a combination of both the capacitive touch sensors and the proximity sensors located in the display.

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Ok.. right in the post we're all reading and responding is not the actual claims.

I repeat, can you point in what claim is said that the proximity sensor is located IN the touchscreen display?

Oletros said:

The patent doesn't say anything about what tech is used apart of a "proximity sensor"

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proximity sensors already exist as tech. the innovation here is putting them inside of a touchscreen display, to use in tandeeem w/ touch tech, which also already exists. which as far as we know hasnt been patented because it's a new idea.

show us some prior art if it's bogus, tho. love to see it.

mdelvecchio said:

proximity sensors already exist as tech. the innovation here is putting them inside of a touchscreen display, to use in tandeeem w/ touch tech, which also already exists. which as far as we know hasnt been patented because it's a new idea

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Still waiting which claims say that

mdelvecchio said:

show us some prior art if it's bogus, tho. love to see it.

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What the heck are you talking about? Can you point where the heck i have said anything about the ****ing patent being bogus or if there is prior art?

Oletros said:

Ok.. right in the post we're all reading and responding is not the actual claims.

I repeat, can you point in what claim is said that the proximity sensor is located IN the touchscreen display?

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if you cant be bothered to read the claim yourself, here it is, in claim #1:

detecting a gesture input that comprises a movement of a finger or a pointing device in proximity to a surface of the display, the detecting comprising measuring a distance between the finger or the pointing device and the surface of the display;

and #28:

28. The apparatus of claim 27 in which the sensor module comprises a touch sensor and a proximity sensor, the touch sensor detecting touch inputs and gesture inputs having movements along the surface, the proximity sensor in combination with the touch sensor detecting gesture inputs having the perpendicular movement components.

...the sensor is in the display, detecting the proximity and distance of the finger from the surface.

the Kinect doesnt have a surface.

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Oletros said:

What the heck are you talking about? Can you point where the heck i have said anything about the ****ing patent being bogus or if there is prior art?

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i responded to a post suggesting this is bogus because the Kinect did it first. i pointed out that the Kinect doesnt even have a display surface, thus its completely different since this sensing is done in the display surface. you are being contrarian for whatever reason.

if you dont think this is a unique idea being patented, show us some prior art. i honestly would love to see it.

mdelvecchio said:

if you cant be bothered to read the claim yourself, here it is, in claim #1:

detecting a gesture input that comprises a movement of a finger or a pointing device in proximity to a surface of the display, the detecting comprising measuring a distance between the finger or the pointing device and the surface of the display;

...the sensor is in the display, detecting the proximity and distance of the finger from the surface.

the Kinect doesnt have a surface.

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That claim doesn't say nothing about the proximity sensor, still waiting about it. Try again.

Interesting. So what happens if someone makes something like this in Canada first? Where does the jurisdiction end?

Oletros said:

That claim doesn't say nothing about the proximity sensor, still waiting about it. Try again.

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it does. keep reading the rest of the claim for this device... scroll down to where they discuss the appratus used to detect the movement...

the sensor module comprises a touch sensor and a proximity sensor, the touch sensor detecting touch inputs and gesture inputs having movements along the surface, the proximity sensor in combination with the touch sensor detecting gesture inputs having the perpendicular movement components.

...there ya go, pal. youve lost.