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elistan

macrumors 6502a
Jun 30, 2007
997
443
Denver/Boulder, CO
Which begs the question: Why didn't the original iPad get the same updates as the 3GS? C'mon man

Warning - I'm continuing my grammatical OT trend in this thread. All readers should pass to the next post if they're not interested. :p

To "beg a question" does not mean "to plead for a questions to be raised." To beg a question is actually a way to answer a question. It means "to beg off" on answering - which means to decline to answer, by giving an answer that doesn't actually provide any info. For example, answering with "because it's dumb" would be begging the question "why do you think it's stupid?"

This will probably change over the next several years - I suspect this phrase will ultimately be accepted as meaning "to plead (beg) for a question to be raised."
 

reeve

macrumors newbie
Jun 17, 2013
16
0
Southern California
I have. Many in fact. Instead of just reading the snippets that laud the device, perhaps you should read a bit deeper and aside from the LTE band increase (because that matters to you, right?), a minor camera upgrade and a whisker thin increase in battery, the hardware hasn't changed.

I haven't read snippets, I've done my research. Also, I know several people who chose to get the 5c and are absolutely loving it. A great phone is a great phone.
 

CFreymarc

Suspended
Sep 4, 2009
3,969
1,149
If you are describing the current behavior of Google Play running on Mavericks, you have it right.
 

mrbc

macrumors newbie
Jun 9, 2013
1
0
UK
So on the eve of launching two separate phones with different specs and just days after launching a legacy app program and after yesterday's iOS7 release that I can't use on my less than two year old iPod, we're bashing Android for fragmentation?

There's a bit of a difference though isn't there? Apple tell you what devices their version of iOS works on. Android do nothing and the customer suffers. I've used friends Android phones and it's horrid. They don't even know what version they're on. So yes I think fragmentation is a very fitting debate for Android. Don't get salty.
 

hchung

macrumors 6502a
Oct 2, 2008
689
1
What the market says is irrelevant, the fact is that Samsung has had BT 4.0- LTE in their phones since months ago and some devices are compatibles with them like Fitbit and some heart rate devices

I repeat, if 4.3 was a dependency and 4.3 was compatible just for having the 4.0 BT LTS stack Nexus 4, Galaxy Nexus, Nexus 7 (both 2012 and 2013) or Nexus 10 would have been compatible but they are not compatible with the gear

So yes, the fragmentation thing in this case isjust ********

Funny you should say that. It's much much messier than you made it out to be.

http://developer.samsung.com/forum/board/thread/view.do?boardName=GeneralB&messageId=157757
https://github.com/cjhuo/Android-Samsung-Ble-APIs-Bluez
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11311947/how-to-use-broadcom-ble-sdk-smart-4-0-in-android-4-x

If I recall correctly, as it's been a while since it was relevant to me...
Samsung refused to publish how to make BTLE work on the S3 in pre-4.2, because they didn't want people to know it's using a hacked up stack that Google already planned to abandon in 4.2.
Motorola made their own BTLE API.
Fitbit (and that cjhuo guy) made it work on the S3 using HTC's (old) SDK, which similarly also hacked up the bluez stack.
Google abandoned bluez for Broadcom's BlueDroid, but doesn't fully complete the BTLE API.
Broadcom provides a BTLE API for BlueDroid, but only to licensees.
HTC had to make their own BTLE API because some of their chips use Broadcom some use other companies, therefore can't include Broadcom's BTLE API.
Fitbit then had to release a new app to work with the S4 because the S4 uses Android 4.2, which has the BlueDroid stack + Broadcom's BTLE API.
Google builds in a BTLE API for Android 4.3. Not sure if it's compatible with Broadcom's 4.2 API, but from what I heard, probably not.

If somebody's looking for a facepalm fragmentation moment, here you go:

Any BTLE app that worked in Android 4.0/4.1 will face one or more of the following:
1) break support for Android 4.0/4.1 in their next update
2) need to write in support for 4.2 using Motorola's BTLE APIs. Or fail for those phones.
3) need to write in support for 4.2 using HTC's BTLE APIs. Or fail for those phones.
4) need to write in support for 4.2 using Broadcom's BTLE APIs. (and only be supported on specific phones with Broadcom licences) Or fail for those phones.
5) need to write in support for 4.3 using Google's BTLE APIs. Or fail in 4.3.
So to complete support, they'd have to include up to 5 BTLE stack interfaces that do roughly the same thing and continue to write support for all of them until they decide to abandon some users. HTC's already put out a release telling devs to abandon their own BTLE APIs and migrate to 4.3's.
I suspect Samsung's done the same too. Problem is, if those phones don't get a 4.3 update, those users are simply gone.

No wonder the Cuckoo smartwatch people delayed Android support for half a year, and then started development of 2 separate apps solely to target 2 different stacks (Samsung & Broadcom).

For more pissed-off people see here:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/android-platform/CYtxCmtZ-WI
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects...tch-for-the-connected-generation/posts/352332
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cuckoo/cookootm-the-watch-for-the-connected-generation/posts
https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=58725
http://android.stackexchange.com/questions/26105/determining-support-for-bluetooth-low-energy

As for the Galaxy Gear compatibility, there is no question that 4.3 is a dependency. But 4.3 isn't the only dependency. An app has to be written that knows how to talk to the Galaxy Gear AND the phone's BTLE stack. Therefore, Nexus device support also depends on whether or not Samsung feels like tying Galaxy Gear support to TouchWiz.
 
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